[tsegat01]

I would just like to add to your comments that the information most adoptees are seeking is not "private". A person's heritage and ancestry does not end with an individual if they have children. As an adoptee I am fortunate to know my ancestry and that information belongs to my children, all my children, not just the ones I raised. I have no right to withhold their heritage from any of them.

In my genealogy research I was able to obtain both my parents' birth certificates and their marriage certificate, but even though both sets of parents are deceased, I cannot obtain my own birth certificate.

A lot of what adoptees seek is basically public information, but requires some basic facts such as names and dates in order to pursue a history. There are aspects of my life that I would deem "private" and it is my choice whether I divulge that information or not, but any part of my history that is also my children's history should be shared freely.

Earlier I made a reference to fctional attitudes toward adoptees and it was meant to show that our fiction reflects society's attitude and by the same token fiction can influence attitudes. Though in real life the attitudes are rarely as blatant or outspoken, as an adoptee I can say they DO exist in subtle and persistent ways, and they can affect the emotional and psycological health of the adoptee. I realize that those who have not lived the experience may not understand, but hopefully they will make the effort to put themselves in someone else's shoes with an open mind.

Seeking one's roots should not be construed as harassment.
Pat

[numbr1dbcksfan]

I deleted my last two posts because I really dont feel that there is a debate... You are not going to change my opinion...and I have no desire to change yours.... Good luck with everyone's searches!

[debsdone]

schatz, I'm afraid I have no idea what you are talking about. I have never said a single word about adoptees being forced to search, nor have I said that adoptees were expected to attack their adopted parents????????????? What I see is hostility. Mean insulting comments and name calling when a position that differs is introduced. If this is a board that is open to different opinions, then they shouldn't be attacked. If this were an open adoption site, then fair enough. It would be nice to be allowed a different opinion without getting called names and insulted. I have offered my opinion. I don't claim to be an expert, not do I have a political agenda. I am not pulling in information that supports my position because I am not invested in changing anyone's mind. My entire life I have been given crap about my religion, my kids have been told repeatedly they are going to Hell because they don't believe the same as someone else. The abortion issue is the same. If you don't vote "pro life" you are labeled "pro abortion". It seems inconceivable to some people that I can be 100% against abortion but don't feel compelled to force my neighbor to live her life by my PERSONAL beliefs. I am pretty convinced that open adoption is best. And I believe that many changes need to take place re: adoption. I was totally unaware of any of this a couple months ago. But the manner in which this has been presented has caused me to mistrust the motives of the presenters. It seem that the "cause" has become more important than the people involved. Confused people posting questions are USED as a means of putting out a political message. That sucks. Kids are being given advice based on pre-conceived information that isn't provided. Again, mostly to make a statement. I believe that this fight, like the abortion fight, will cease to be about any actual issue or person, and simply become about proving a point. Before I vote to take away a person's right to a closed adoption, I need to learn more. Not a bunch of crap about serial killers, that is so horrible I still can't believe it was and continues to be said. If education is provided about the benefits of open adoption, and it seems to be a growing awareness, and somebody still chooses to have a closed adoption, why shouldn't they? I am asking a question, not making a statement. My actual questions generally go unanswered and I get a political statement instead. How many people are in therapy because the religion their parents brought them up in messed up their heads? Should that be something that is regulated by laws as well? Again, a question. Should my sons sue me for damages because I choose to circumcise them? If parents are educated , what more can and should we do? These are the questions I have. Why must I be categorized and criticized for questioning something that is new to me? My religion allows that, I thought my RIGHTS as an American also allowed that. I am all for strong beliefs, where they are appropriate. If I post an opinion where one was asked for, I would be totally open to debate, but not what has gone on here. I am not a stupid person, despite my bad spelling that Ray so lovingly pointed out. The more someone pushes me to believe something, the more I feel compelled to check it out and think it through. I have signed way too many petitions in front of stores based on what the guy said it was about, only to find out that it was something totally different. I do not yet have a solid belief about much of this, but I am thoroughly disgusted with the manner this has been SHOVED in my face. Debi

[raybuffer]

Hi,

I've been staying out of this debate for a while. I simply want to point out that open adoption is not the same as open records. There are two different issues being discussed here and simply because someone supports one issue doesn't mean they are for the other. If anyone would like to discuss these issues in another thread (adoptee support) I would be happy to. But this is a birthmothers forum so please forgive my trespass.

Ray

[tsegat01]

I am sorry you felt it necessary to delete your opinions. All points of view should be welcome here, whether we agree or not. I personally do not come here to agree, but to express my views and to understand the experiences and views of others. This is how we learn and grow. If all I desired or needed was agreement, I could just talk to myself!

By confronting opposing points of view, we can alter our current beliefs or reaffirm them. This is healthy and productive and in no way is meant to be derogatory to anyone. Please feel free to express your ideas and beliefs here. Many can benefit, including yourself.
Pat

Originally posted by numbr1dbcksfan
I deleted my last two posts because I really dont feel that there is a debate... You are not going to change my opinion...and I have no desire to change yours.... Good luck with everyone's searches!

[Mary RamireZ]

DOES ANYBODY GET IT? CLOSED ADOPTION IS PAINFUL TO THE BIRMOTHER . I KNOW BIRTHMOTHER.S FROM THE CLOSED ADOPTIONS, THAT IF THEY HAD DO TI OVER AGAIN WOULD ABORT. ANY ADOPTIVE PARENT THAT WANT A CLOSED ADOPTION IS NOT THINKING OF THIER ADOPTIVE CHILD AND ONLY CARES OF THERE SELF. CLOSED ADOPTION WILL LEAD ABORTION AND PROLIFERS THAT SUPPORT CLOSE ADOPTION ARE NOT PRO LIFE

MY TWO CENTS
MARY

[Mary RamireZ]

IF YOU THINK THAT PRO CHOSE IS HAVEING CLOSED ADOPTION ANY BIRHTMOTHER THINKING SHE WILL WANT A CLOSE ADOPTION
WILL GO TO A CONCERNED UNITED BIRTHPARENT MEETING AND HEAR THE STORIES OF BIRTHMOTHER IN CLOSED ADOPTION AND iKNOW THEY WILL CHANGE THEIR MIND!
MY TWO CENTS
MARY

[jhenrie]

Not to mention the fact that in a healthy, open adoption, children do not have as many identity issues; they often don't have that "void" that grown adoptees discuss so ofen. They don't live in a fantasy land....where their birthmom is either a fantastic, beautiful, rich angel...or an ugly, poor, mean troll.

It is healthier for an adopted child to be sent the message:

"As your parents, we care for you enough to answer your questions. We are secure enough as adults, to not feel threatened by your birthmom. We are concerned enough about your adulthood, that we want to banish any fantasies now. We respect you enough to allow you to have open thoughts and feelings about your adoption. We value you enough to tell you about where you came from. We love you enough to want you to feel complete in your heart." ~JLH

[ladyjubilee]

Originally posted by raybuffer
But let me ask you this: What are you doing about the poor children with even more severe problems that are NEVER adopted. They grow up in foster care and hear this: They never have their birth certificates amended. They are afforded no special protection no witness protection program which closed adoption is comparable to. Children who grow up in foster care never have to search for original records because they are never altered.

Ray,

Exactly what are YOU doing for those "poor children with even more severe problems"? And how do you know what problems Rainbow Mom's children face?

[Rainbow mom]

Ray has been banned, I am not sure why.

I guess my awnser is one I use with my kids all of the time. "When you where born you came with a birth certificate not a fair certificate".

My kids have huge problems some they will never overcome. Why thier birthparents would or should have access to them as they try to grow beyond the abuse they suffered from them is something only my husband and I should figure out. They have already proven to our kids and to us that they are not stable people.

Every case is different adoption is not a cookie cutter concept.

[CeAnne]

My husband and I would like a closed adoption because we don't want to confuse our child and not feel like they are our child. Once a birthmother gives up the rights to parent her child they are given up. I feel sorry for those adoptee's that didn't get placed with good adoptive parents but it sounds like most adoptee's have a negitive attutide torwards other things than just their parents. When we adopt and get a closed adoption we will tell our child about his/her birthparents when he or she is old enough to understand. We will also provide or help find the information to contact them when the child is at a reasonable age. But we will not have birthparents interfering with how our child is raised. Prayers to all the adoptee's that they acknowledge the love, patience and perservence of their adoptive parents.

[debsdone]

As an adult adoptee from a closed adoption...I STRONGLY suggest you do your homework on this. What you are suggesting is what causes the confusion. How old is old enough to understand? Why would you think that sending pictures to birthparents would allow them to "interfere"? Most of us had good a-parents. We were still adopted. We still had biological families, like it or not. The more it seems that the birth-family is dis-approved of..the more a child feels like something is wrong with him/her. We are the by products of those birth-parents. If you do any research that is current, you will understand. (I hope) If not...you will run the risk of alienating your adopted child. Their desire to know their birth family will not be replaced by you. They will simply keep it to themselves...thereby driving a wedge. Kids are loyal. It is up to the parents to deserve that loyalty. Debi

[CeAnne]

I have to say that I don't agree with you. I know several people that have been adopted or that one parent has left them and these people don't want anything to do with those people. My uncle that was adopted did find his adoptive family( he is about 35) and he perfered it the way it happened. His mother didn't send pictures or letters and I don't think she even had an address. But he loved his adoptive family and now he is old enough to decide for him self he keeps in contact with his family. I don't think that keeping that information from a child will drive a wedge between us and it will not put a negitive spin on things if we don't put a negitive spin on it. I think you are also assuming way to much about what the child will percieve about the situation depending on the age. I suspose it all depends on the situation and the birth parents, every one always thinks there way is the best. Thats why we have opionions but this is the way I will do it. In regards to age I will tell my child they are adopted when I feel the time is right and about their birthparents when the time is right. Once agian each situation is differnet.

Thanks for your opionion.

[debsdone]

Ok.....now that you have joined this forum, are you at least willing to read the posts from adoptees to see what you may learn? It is a bit narrow to take a couple examples and build a parenting/lifestyle around them. Is there even support for totally closed adoptions? Does anyone actually do it? And....do you realize how easy it is to find people these days? How,exactly, do you intend to stay "hidden"? I haven't heard of anyone doing a closed adoption in a LONG time. I do understand that this site doesn't really support closed adoption, so it wouldn't surprise me if those who do support it simply don't post. (That is me trying to be fair minded...) Debi

[Sharon]

CeAnne,
I believe it is almost impossible these days to find a closed domestic infant adoption. You could wait years and years and years, and never find a situation like this. The reason is that it is now known that open and semi-open adoption are healthier options all around, healthier for adoptees and certainly more appealing for birthparents. Most domestic adoption agencies offer open and semi-open adoptions. Period. For this reason, most potential adoptive parents who prefer closed adoptions choose to adopt internationally, or to adopt an older child through the foster care system, whose biological parents' rights have been terminated by the state.
I hope you will consider some of these options. I wish you the best of luck, and I hope that whatever you do, you will NOT give in to the temptation to agree to an open or semi-open adoption and then close it once the adoption is final. This is something I've run into frequently on these boards, and it is something that will ultimately have terrible consequences. It is not possible to build a healthy, happy, stable family when the very foundation of it is a lie... eventually, it will all crumble.
Adoptive parents are not the only culprits here, and I don't mean to imply that they are; I've also read of birthparents closing open adoptions or failing to maintain contact when they've agreed to do so. Again, the consequences for the adoptee are potentially very harmful, and people who fail to maintain their agreements WILL be called upon to account for their actions at some point.
In this age of computers and easy access to information, it is not likely that the adoptee will not one day find and contact his or her biological family; probably sooner than later. If nothing else, it is becoming crucial to one's health that one know one's family medical history/ genetic predisposition to illness.
If your heart is set on closed adoption, you might have to adopt independently; I'm no expert, but my understanding is that there are few if any agencies that promote this type of adoption anymore. Either that, or you may need to consider international or older child adoption. I'm glad you know what you want and are at least being honest about it. Please do not let anyone force you into making promises that you know you will be unable/ unwilling to keep. However, do continue your research. I believe you may find ample evidence to suggest that closed adoption is NOT the best option for adoptees/ adoptive families in the long run.
Best wishes to you, ~ Sharon