[Micawa]

My partner and I are considering older child adoption. I have to say, I'm very disturbed by what I 've read here. I know that people are venting, but I'm sure those people understand that they are venting onto a permanent form of media that absolutely everyone (including the children they're talking about) can read.

In my time looking over this board, I saw one woman call her adopted daughter a slut three times in one post (that isn't a word I even use), many people say they wouldn't have had their children if they had "known" (as if anyone expects perfect children who have been abused for 10 or more years), and many more who just seem so pissed to have been infertile that they wouldn't have accepted anything.

Now, I must say, I didn't write this thread on my own. This came from a lot of input from family and friends, most of whom have read posts on here (at one point, I started copying and pasting to my loved ones) and said "that is exactly what I was like as a teen, I can't believe what they're saying about this kid."

I know I'm being very volatile, as I've read this board for awhile and everyone seems to be supportive to a fault, but I have these questions:

What were deal-breakers for you when it came to looking at prospective children?

What would you have done differently if you could do it again? (and none of this "I hate my life but love my children" stuff, because everyone knows that is bs, share the bad and good)

Do you think that every child who is adoted after age 2 is going to develop RAD (as those are the only stories I hear) ? Please, please tell me some success stories that don't involve "sluts."

I hope you don't think this is a troll-ish post. I'm very seriously considering this, and I don't care if I hurt some feelings on the way to knowledge.

[txwannabemom]

Yes, alot of people seeking support here are at the end of thier rope. Thier dream may not have worked out as planned, and they feel discouraged.

I am happy to say I have a great adoption story. My daughter is doing amazingly well, though diagnosed with RAD has not exhibited any of the symptoms she was reported to have.

She is a beautiful, loving, happy seven year old. Safety isues: sure. lack of schema for family: you bet. She is an amazing survivor!

When you go through the training you are given a long list of "can you parent a child with...." to consider. You have to make choices about what you are "willing" to accept.

As a 26 yr old single mom and teacher I choose to not consider:
-major medical issues (Aids, Cerberal Palsy, Etc.)
-birthfamily contact
-Children over 12
-Only children who have had TPR ( I did not foster first)

For other people those would have been no big deal.
I left my self wide open to a variety of situations: blind, RAD, Autistic, etc. I knew I wanted to consider children on a case by case basis. I did turn down 2 potential matches. One was adopting a little girl out of a Residental Treatment Center. One was a little girl who at 11 had been found in possesion of drugs at school. Charges were pending.

If I could do anything differently....nope actually I am good with how I approached this adoption. We are in therapy from the 2nd day home, I was incredibly proactive even when CPS was not on the job they way they should have been, i read every book about attachment and parenting that anyone recomended to me.

This can be done and done well, there are great people here who are doing it.

Also please consider, that while many parents have the best intentions, being an adoptive parent by no means makes you parenting expert. Some people not only did not really know what they were getting into but also well....you get the point.

Best of luck on your adoption journey!

[crick]

Welcome to the Forums - just a couple of points you might consider as you venture through here.

You need to remember that often, this site is the only place many have in their life to vent and share.

Many people, much like yourself and your family I might add, say the same things to those facing a lot of adversity and challenges with their children.

"Every child does that" is a clue that one doesn't "get it". It's not always what the child does, but the motivation behind it and the reason for their actions. That's a BIG difference.

"Hate my life but love my child" is not b.s. - it's a truth for those who say it. You have no clue what life is like for them, so how you have it all figured out is beyond me.
Maybe spend a day with someone I know who will do anything for her daughter, loves her and will never give up on her. Yet lives each and every day with a child that doesn't love her and goes out of her way to make sure Mom knows it. It is not b.s., I assure you. Only a true loving mother could continue through life with a child like that. That my dear, is the true test of unconditional love.

This board and others like it can be a very supportive place, but please know you might not get many answers due to your tone and as you say "volatile" statements about and against the very people you yourself want answers from. I know you say you don't care if you hurt feelings along the way to knowledge, but with that you need to have the realization that some just might not care enough to share. Then again...we have awesome people here who will see beyond your "I don't care" sentiment and offer you support. Ya...they rock like that.

[bluebonnet_72]

Will every child adopted over age 2 develop RAD? No way. My daughters came home at 10, 5 and almost 2. The emotionally healthiest of them is the oldest. I go to parent teacher conferences and hear how amazing she is. She is a hard worker, with a tender heart. She is hitting the teen years, and is a very typical teen: moody, pulling away from her family toward her peers, and looking for her identity. She is an awesome young lady.
My other two daughters are precious, with bright futures. They do have more emotional issues to overcome. Parenting them is hard work, but it is absolutely the most rewarding thing I've ever done. Neither of them have RAD, though my middle dd has some RAD behaviors. She sits on the borderline, not really RAD but some of the characteristics. I'm learning to recognize that most of her really difficult behaviors come from fear. If we can get a handle on the fear, the behaviors go away for a while.
Having no other children in the home, and a lot of experience with emotionally distubed children I was pretty open with who we would match with. The two biggest changes I'd make if I were starting over would be a) Relax and not take everything so seriously and b) Be stricter with my youngest from day one. I probably would have made those same mistakes with bio. children.
Older adopted children are going to have emotional issues. They have been through alot but, it is a mistake to assume all older adopted children are fundamentally broken. Parenting them is harder then parenting children who haven't been traumatized. It is realistic to be prepared for that.
I'd do it again, in a heartbeat. Hard work or not they are my daughters. Just seeing them walk into a room brings a smile. After school each day, I can't wait to pick them up. I'm so blessed to be their mother.

[lucyjoy]

Attachment disorder happens between birth and 2-3 years old and it damages the brain so yes, I would expect most children over 2 to have some level of attachment problems.

I did not find having everything I own stolen, broken, or ruined. I did not enjoy being beat on by my son. I did not enjoy the maggots in the hole in the wall where he hid food he could have eaten at any time. I did not enjoy living with alarms to avoid being murdered(he will tell you he meant for me to be dead). I could keep going but you wouldn't hear me anyway. I love my sons and most of them are now fine young men with whom I have good relationships.

deal breakers for me were medical and not being able to be on their own as adults(ha ha for me on that one) I felt ill equipped to handle these and preferred the behavioral kids.

Poor training is a big part of the problem. I was unaware of the lasting effects of trauma when I took my first son. I thought being in a stable environment, with plenty to eat and lots of love would be enough. I know better now.

It is the illness and not the child that is the problem. However, it is not easy to live with.

[momraine]

Well maybe I can help. I have adopted twice. I did not come to this site until I was considering a second adoption. I did not seek it out until then because there were no issues with my daughter so I felt no need. I did belong to a group specific to her country before I adopted her, but soon after I was home and busy with life and three kids, I dropped off of that group.
Now, with my second adoption, my son has been diagnosed with RAD. Because life is difficult with him, I need the support. The people around me in real life don't get it. To other people, including teachers, neighbors, relatives and church friends, my son is very charming and well behaved.
However, at home when it's just us (Dh and I and our other children) He can be a different person. He throws up all the time. He throws things. He has pooped (at 9) and painted a room with it. He screams for hours at a time, cussing and making threats. He breaks things all the time. He pulls out his own hair, he will refuse to eat until he is about to pass out. He is dehydrated and underweight. He lies all the time. He has told teachers I beat him. He steals from me and his siblings and gives away what he steals to other kids at school. (he once gave a kid in a day treatment program 50.00 out of my purse) He hides food and vomit everywhere.
I will be honest, I do not enjoy cleaning up vomit, poop and moldy food. I do not like having things thrown at me, being pinched, run over by a 300lb power chair, or having things stolen. You might even say I hate those thigns. I do however love my child. I beleive he can heal and learn to accept my love. That's why I put up with the things I hate. With my bio kids, I have gotta tell you, I hated labor, but I did it anyway, cause I love my kids.
As for my kids finding this, I doubt thier friends will identify them, since I don't use my full name and I don't use thier full names. Very few of thier friends hang out on adoption sites. As for the desctiptions of my child's behavior, if you ask him about any of the things I mentioned he will smile (and look proud) and admit to all that and more.

Would I do it again? I don't kow. Before we started two of the things we said we could not handle were RAD and FAS. We got RAD.
I was pretty willing to take just about anything (except those two) Dh really did not want to take any condition that would keep the child from one day being able to live independantly. So I had to accept his limits. I think at this point I would be willing to adopt another RAD kid, but dh would not and my other children are very vocally against any more adoptions. RAD has been hard on the entire family. I need this place to vent to those who understand.

[KarynB]

As a mom to a kiddo who was diagnosed with attachment disorder at age 4, and was adopted at age 3 from an institution, I can tell you that it takes EXTREME courage to admit to anyone that you are having a hard time liking your own kid. Or that the child you would basically do anything for hits you, spits on you, lies to, abuses other kids, etc etc etc. No one in your "real life" understands - often not even your husband/wife/partner because the kid is so good at triangulating he/she sees the kiddo as perfect while you get left to deal with the trauma and grief.

Honestly, since most parents don't understand, I can see why it may be hard for you to understand or have empathy as you have not walked in the shoes (I am assuming from your post) of parenting a child with attachment/trauma/grief issues. I hope if you go ahead with it, and if you have issues, you won't be met with the same judgement you seem to be ok handing out.

Guess what? All of the behaviours we may mention do happen in your average kid, but with attachment kids they happen in the EXTREME. And I do mean extreme. And no one can prepare you for the impact those behaviours will have on your family, no matter how "prepared" you think you are.

To answer a few of your questions - yes, i do think most children who have lived through grief and trauma (and adoption is a trauma) will have emotional issues, but not all will develop into full blown RAD. Many will. I would assume if I were adopting a child over age 3 (depending on child history) that they will have attachment issues and work from there. Practice intense attachment strategies from the get go.

That's what I'd do differently - attachment parenting from Day One.

Would I do it all again? Now that he is ten and doing so well - I'd say yes in a heartbeat. When he was 5 and at the extreme end of behaviours...well, not sure what my answer would be. Almost lost my DH, most of my family and was really hard on DD. But glad we did now!

[pnewcombe]

I can say for sure that not all older kids will have RAD issues and that an older child adoption can be successful. I adopted four teenagers, aged 13,14,15 and 17 (2 sibs and 2 unrelated) and today we are celebrating three years as a family! They were internationally adopted and were oprhans who spent at least 10 years growing up in an orphanage together prior to our getting together. Of course there have been issues while they adapted to family life, a new language, new schools, and a new culture. I was a 59 year old single dad and I had a ton to learn (still am) about being a parent but there is no doubt this has been great for me and for them. When the upsetting things happen (and they have to the tune of thousands of $ - (teen age drivers! and NO we don't play soccer in the living room)) I have been able to adopt the attitude that they are just spending their inheritance early and the problems would have been the same with bio children. As long as the damage is only property and no one is hurt and our day to day living has not been affected I consider myself very fortunate. I have had to learn to parent each of the boys in the manner that works best for them, which has been totally different from how I was raised. What would I have done differently? Not wait until I was almost a senior citizen so I coould keep up easier. As far as deal breakers on kids.... I wanted older kids about whom I could find out more of their personalities and histories. I found an agency that knew the boys I was considering for years and could give me information about their past. While all were true orphans when adopted, thay had all spent their earliest years with their birth families so RAD issues were not as likely. In addition, they had been in a stable environment for 10 years in the orphanage, not in transient care. Both of those facts have born out and I have four very well attached kids. In fact they tease me that they are never moving out, even after they get married. (Right! I think some else will have something to say about that). I personally think that you can find older kids who are excellent adoption candidates and many of the parents who look for very young children don't realize that the RAD issues develop very, very early and that adopting very young does not avoid them, and then when we take older kids and put them in transient care we even create issues for attachment in kids that might not otherwise have had them. Just my two cents, I'm not an adoption pro. But I can vouch for the fact that there are older child adoptions that do succeed and I am sad that too many kids miss their chance for a family. Good luck on what ever you decide.

Pete, Pop to four great kids.

[KarynB]

Originally Posted by pnewcombe

I can say for sure that not all older kids will have RAD issues and that an older child adoption can be successful. I adopted four teenagers, aged 13,14,15 and 17 (2 sibs and 2 unrelated) and today we are celebrating three years as a family! They were internationally adopted and were oprhans who spent at least 10 years growing up in an orphanage together prior to our getting together. Of course there have been issues while they adapted to family life, a new language, new schools, and a new culture. I was a 59 year old single dad and I had a ton to learn (still am) about being a parent but there is no doubt this has been great for me and for them. When the upsetting things happen (and they have to the tune of thousands of $ - (teen age drivers! and NO we don't play soccer in the living room)) I have been able to adopt the attitude that they are just spending their inheritance early and the problems would have been the same with bio children. As long as the damage is only property and no one is hurt and our day to day living has not been affected I consider myself very fortunate. I have had to learn to parent each of the boys in the manner that works best for them, which has been totally different from how I was raised. What would I have done differently? Not wait until I was almost a senior citizen so I coould keep up easier. As far as deal breakers on kids.... I wanted older kids about whom I could find out more of their personalities and histories. I found an agency that knew the boys I was considering for years and could give me information about their past. While all were true orphans when adopted, thay had all spent their earliest years with their birth families so RAD issues were not as likely. In addition, they had been in a stable environment for 10 years in the orphanage, not in transient care. Both of those facts have born out and I have four very well attached kids. In fact they tease me that they are never moving out, even after they get married. (Right! I think some else will have something to say about that). I personally think that you can find older kids who are excellent adoption candidates and many of the parents who look for very young children don't realize that the RAD issues develop very, very early and that adopting very young does not avoid them, and then when we take older kids and put them in transient care we even create issues for attachment in kids that might not otherwise have had them. Just my two cents, I'm not an adoption pro. But I can vouch for the fact that there are older child adoptions that do succeed and I am sad that too many kids miss their chance for a family. Good luck on what ever you decide.

Pete, Pop to four great kids.

Hi Pete,

Wow, sounds like your sons are doing amazing! I am curious though - I was not aware of any countries that would allow single men to adopt - do you mind sharing where they are adopted from?

[pnewcombe]

I adopted from Estonia in September of 2006. My boys are ethnic Russians who had little chance of being adopted by Estonians. Here in the US, they get to be Estonian, Russian or American as the need arises (True intrenational men of mystery)!

Pete

[KarynB]

Originally Posted by pnewcombe

I adopted from Estonia in September of 2006. My boys are ethnic Russians who had little chance of being adopted by Estonians. Here in the US, they get to be Estonian, Russian or American as the need arises (True intrenational men of mystery)!

Pete

Wow, very cool! Thanks for sharing...

[momraine]

Wow, you were very lucky to find an agency that was so honest and a country that could give you so much information. It most certainly is possible for children to be adopted older and not have attachment issues, however it's not easy to tell on a visit or in an orphanage setting or even a foster care setting.
A kid with attachment disorder can seem fine if they are in some sort of living situation where no one is trying attach to them emotionally and where they do not feel they are in danger of attaching. So it's hard to tell unless you have a really good history on the kid, and even then sometimes you can get surprised. I reccomend anyone adopting a child over two study up on attachment and be prepared just in case.

[Drywall]

To all moms trying to understand and love their difficult children there is no way to thank you enough.

The idea that so many of you can preserve the love and caring for your child when adoption dreams fall apart, is amazing. To you moms, I am grateful.

Hopefully at some point those lost children will grow to realize the sacrifices so many of you have made for them.

Adoption in my case was a destructive life changing event from which there would never be complete recovery.

Although adopted at 5 months, I was a replacement for the 1st child sold into adoption. That first child died at age 3.

As a 2nd black market replacement child, little did I know replacements are just that.
It is not possible for replacements to attain the same valued status as that of a first child.

The loss at age 3 of a 1st a-mom set the stage. All that was left was abandonment and anger from a single parent directed toward a child my a-dad didn't want.

Slowly, I understood I was a nuisance...a bother, bad, and an outsider...second class...no one wanted me. The seeds of melt down were planted.

Gradually gaps in my head became noticeable and there was a realization that my peers and schoolmates had family...parents who loved them...something I didn't have and couldn't get.

There were strong feelings of being an island and a separation from people. This was coupled with a hatred of everything. I was an outsider...trapped. Little concern was given to a head beginning to break up.

Meltdown had begun. A horrible feeling. I cared about no one. Nothing mattered. If my life had ended, I wouldn't have cared.

When my a-dad married his 2nd wife I learned about adoption and what it meant to be suspect, tainted and again an outsider. I was adopted...nothing mattered in terms of what I felt....meltdown occurred.

What followed was abuse at every level. The "outsider" had to be trained to meet adult standards.

Daily I prayed to a God who never answered.

In my head, I was an outsider...separate from everything...a feeling that on some occasions persists even now....

As I became older, I recognized that being tainted, suspect and a part of forced slavery was from my a-family...not the world in general.

There is no way to adequately describe a feeling of complete detachment...it is a terrible, destructive, never ending feeling over which there is little control. You don't know how to fix it.

When you are young, you wont know how to label those feelings, or even what would help, if asked...but you will know they are there.

To all moms, struggling to make their shattered adoption dreams come true, I hope you will always be there...we need you...and maybe the "forever family" will happen.

I wish you all the best.

[its_a_small_world]

My son came to live with us when he was 8 years old, straight from an RTC. He was diagnosed with PTSD, ADHD and ruled out RAD. We never went through a honeymoon period, he hit us right away with his attitude and issues. I guess in a way that was better since we didn't get used to a fake Brendan. We had TONS and TONS of issues with him, lots of anger, swearing, some stealing, destruction in his room. Tons of lying also.

It has taken 2 years, going through numerous therapists to get where we are now. He went from a scared and angry little boy to a happy and well adjusted kid. What worked for us was not putting up with his anger and not letting him have a pity party for himself due to his situation in life. He is very much attached and very loving. He loves to give hugs, cuddle with us at night on the couch and jump in our bed on lazy weekend mornings. He is well liked in school, has friends, gets A's & B's and is involved with sports. But it didn't start off that way and you need to be aware of that.

Last year I did not like my son at all. He was so so so angry all the time and was just so **** sneaky and couldn't believe a word that he said. He does still lie (don't know if that will ever stop) and is still sneaky at times, but it is much better. He will at least admit the truth when he's caught half the time and the other half he will admit to the act after a few minutes. That alone is a great improvement. He also has a job now as a dog walker for one of our neighbors. He is very responsible and very caring for this dog. It helped that we have 2 dogs that he just loves and adores.

What worked for us was my dh and i staying united and not letting Brendan triangulate us. Consequences for bad behavior, rewards for good behavior and following through with those conseqences. We helped change a lot of his bad behaviors, but he had to want to work on them also. He saw how his bad choices were affecting his life and he didn't want that anymore. On May 1st of this year we became a forever family and that has made a huge difference in my son.

Deal breakers for us were Sexual Abuse, physical and mental disabilities. We know that Brendan wasn't sexually abused, he is very comfortable with human contact, and he is typical with being naked around us. Sometimes he is very private and then sometimes he is in all his glory and is fine with it.

He is definitely a joy to be with now. He loves hanging out with us, very loving, caring and empathetic. He is a very normal kid who loves his life. It took a long time to get here and we are still working on it.

Good luck!

[Micawa]

I really appreciate all of your responses. The responses here and elsewhere have shown me that there is no such thing as a typical older child adopter (or, of course, a typical older child adoptee). I've continued to look into adopting, and, the more I research, the more I'm certain that I'll never really be certain. I can't tell whether this is a sign that I am not ready to adopt an older child or that anyone who is ever certain that they are ready is insane.

Some of you were definitely annoyed by my post. I hope you are able to think of it as some people may think of the things everyone posts here - subjective and potentially controversial, but honest.