[momraine]

The one thing I like about these boards is that I know the people here will be honest with me. They won't tell me what they think I want to hear. They don't have any adgenda like finding a home for a kid (which the social workers and orphange workers do) It does not affect them one way or the other if I take a certain child or not. Because of that they will be honest. Many people here have adopted older kids or kids with problems, medical, pysical, emotional, you name it you can find someone on here who has taken in a kid with those issues. So they have the experience to give me good adice. It may not be what I want to hear, but I know it will be honest.

[aMarylandfamily]

... know my first posting wasn't meant to be unsupportive and if it were to have read that way - it was not intended to do so - as another poster has stated many of us here have or have had placements from similar situations and have lots of wisdom, advice, and caring to share! My RED FLAGS notations were, as I believe I stated, not to scare you away from this child but to encourage you to proceed with getting all the information - many times our hearts overrule the common sense that we wish we had listed to after the fact - these placements can be successful if you enter them with eyes wide open and all areas covered - especially with regard to other children, family members or even pets that can be affected.

Do keep posting, we are here for you - and will be through it all ...

[MilehighDad]

Greenmama,
Somehow I missed where you had posted that you are going to pass on this child. You are correct to carefully consider any placement decision and pass if it doesn't feel right. I certainly respect your decision and pray that you will find a match that works soon.

I also want to address the tone this thread has taken. I know that everyone posting on this board who has adopted older kids has more in common with our family than anyone else in the country. I know from personal experience how hard it is, and I can say that our oldest daughter packed her bags to move in with us from a group home. However, I will say that I think it is unreasonable to take insufficient information and create a firestorm to blast a new family with. Very little was said about the 9-year old discussed on this forum, yet many people were comfortable with thinking they knew more than the social workers who have been responsible for the child for years and who made the match.

Finally, kids who are truly a danger to themselves or others are not put in group homes, they are locked up in psychiatric wards at children's hospitals. And, I can tell you from personal experience, it takes very, very little for a foster home to get a child sent to a psychiatric hospital. They won't be released from such a ward until they're drugged into a stupor. From there, the child will be sent to a residential treatment facility before being returned to a group home and finally back to a foster home. That's the kind of kids we have taken on, and the main thing that should be remembered is that they're just kids and they deserve a home too.

[lucyjoy]

Its very hard to get a child admitted to the psych ward. The child has to be openly suicidal or homicidal to get admitted. Then, the child is returned to the home of foster home. Residential care is very hard to get a child placed in and requires serious criteria. Groups homes are easier to get a child into then residential care, but there child still has to meet the criteria. Hard to place teens are sometimes put into group homes if there are no foster homes for teens available but it's not common with younger children.

The children from group homes etc with serious issues are also the kids that I took in and parented. I also worked for 10 years with a parent support group for parents of children with attachment disorder and/or trauma issues. I've seen the LIES, I've seen the damage the lies do.

And yes, they are children and they do need families if they can handle having them. My 19 year old now healthy son will tell you that he liked the idea of a family but could not live within one.

Could this 9 year old be fine? Sure. But do I think a 6 year old should be risked to find out? NO.

I'm not sure where you got your group home/RTC information but just finding one with an open bed is quite a challenge.

[Lorraine123]

It is very difficult to get a child put in a psych ward. You cannot just walk in and ask for them to be admitted. In order for the police to remove them from your home for evaluation, the police must witness the violence and determine that someone is not safe. Even then they are taken in for eval, not admittance. If the child calms down, they are released back to the family. That has been my experience anyway.

No one said this child does not deserve a family. I just wouldn't take the chance of risking my younger children. If Greenmama didn't have children, or had older children, you would see very different responses here.

[MilehighDad]

Lucy and Lorraine,
You are speaking from your experience, not mine. I'm sure it is different in different parts of the country. We have seen a children institutionalized for very minor issues, but they could be categorized as a "threat to others." And, in one case, they were not released for 17 days because they were so terrified in the institution that they wouldn't obey orders. No serious behavior, just disobedient. And, in the other case, the whole situation was based on a lie another child told.

All I'm asking for is that you accept that your experience is not always the way it is. I know it's true and I am allowing for the very real possibility that this was not a good match for her. However, there are not enough parents out there to take all these kids, let alone enough experienced parents with only older kids to take a kid like this who appears to have minor issues. Yes, in the end the issues could be major and that is a risk. But, there is always risk and it is not appropriate to beat on it with questions like "What if he asks your son to . . ."

The point of my fighting this is that I have been trying to recruit a single family to adopt from foster care for the last 10 years. So far, I have zero. And yet on this board, I have seen multiple new families blasted with issues that will scare the daylights out of them. It is appropriate and necessary to try to pass on experience and help new families, but I can't help but think a line is being crossed where new families are going to run away and never adopt a foster child. Yes, it will be hard for them. Yes, every older child has attachment issues and will not settle in and be perfect the way the parents want.

But, even though social workers and the system have let us all down in different ways, we have to have some faith in the system and try to support the new families finding their way through it. And, when that comes to a family questioning their match, I think you need to be very careful in providing advice that is helpful and lets them make the decision. So, you wouldn't adopt a child out of birth order but you know it can be done successfully by others. Allow for that and don't beat on your opinion to scare someone else out of it. Just state your opinion and leave it be.

Here is what drives my opinion:
Based on US department of health and human services data, in 2006 (the latest year for data available) there were 6,208 ten year olds waiting to be adopted and there were 2,138 ten year olds adopted. So, with no match, he has a one-in-three chance of being adopted next year. That doesn't sound that bad unless you consider the emotional impact of another year of being moved around without a family. By the time he's 13, the odds will only be 1 in 4, at 15 it will be 1 in 7, and by 17 his odds will be 1 in 11. Note that those odds are for each year, so that the cumulative effect is that he has a decent chance of being adopted at some point before he ages out. But, it is a likely to be a long and agonizing wait, and his behavior certainly may get worse in the meantime.

[lucyjoy]

So because kids need to be adopted we should lie to parents who ask opinions and tell them it's all roses and ignore the real red flags? Didn't these kids land in foster care because of abuse and neglect but we should turn our backs and ignore the potential for abuse of another child to get kids into homes?

I am very pro adoption and I'm pro older child adoption. I have worked with LOTS of parents disrupting placements because of what they didn't know. It doesn't help the child and leaves a destroyed family left to pick up the pieces.

I am for INFORMED, EDUCATED adoption and I think social workers need to look at entire situations and not just the numbers of kids that need to be placed.

I live in a state where parents got sick of kids jumping around and took real action to form parent support, parent education that continues after placement, support groups for kids/teens-those adopted and those living with distrubed siblings. They expanded into homestudies and work hard to keep siblings together from the time they leave their bhomes until they go back home or find new homes with as little movement as possible. They fight in state government to keep resources for kids.

I WANT kids to have families. But the fact is, in order for some of these kids to be successful in families, the families need training-more then they are getting in the classes. My kids were masters at blowing through families-and they left damage behind.

I think it's negligent for social workers to place kids directly from group homes into homes without theraputic training, especially if there are younger children there. I think not taking the other kids in the home into account is wrong.

I'm sorry you don't care for my opinion. Do I feel sad for this child? Yes. But do I think putting the 6 year old at risk is okay? NO.

If she had no other kids, I'd have given differnent advice and resources to help parent a child with the issues this one may have.

Her original question indicated her own doubts about the safety of this placement. Should I have lied to get this child off the statistic list? I'm not wired that way.

More needs to be done to recruit and train families to take older kids-I agree.

[aspenhall]

as an aside, my dd at age 5/6 played "naked doctor" not as a sexual thing, but because she's a stickler for accuracy.

And at the doctors office you usually undress.

She wasn't sexually abused, but for a year she wasn't left alone with kids, just in case...

[momraine]

I don't think anyone here expects to adopt kids that are "perfect". Though we would prefer to adopt kids who don't abuse the kids already in our homes. We have a responsibility as parents to protect the kids already in our homes. I did take in a relative who was much older than my children, but I already knew here and knew that she would not hurt them. Having been abused myself, I would never, ever, ever put another child in a position of risk. I have tried to adopt through social services in two different states, both of whom claimed to be short on adoptive and foster parents. The first one told me they would not even talk to me unless I was willing to adopt a child over the age of 7. Well, my homestudy said I could not adopt a child older than my oldest bio who was then only 5. I was willing to take in special needs kids, I was willing to take any color, I was willing to take siblings. But no, they would not even talk to me. Later I tried in another state. I could not get a single call returned. All I got were form letters telling me to come to an informational meeting that was scheduled on a day I could not come. The meeting was an hour away and lasted four hours. They told me there would be another one in several months, but would not even answer basic questions or anything else. Again, I was willing to take sibling groups, this time older children than before, though still not teens becuase my daughter was still fairly young. I was willing to take special needs and any color. I already had a homestudy and background checks and everything, but they could not even answer a question and they would not return phone calls. When my kids are older I will probably try again. But there is no way I would put my younger ones at risk. Sadly I don't have faith in the system. I know too many people who have been lied to by the system.

[Bamamom07]

Loved your story, Aspenhall!

My 2 cents.
I have an awesome social worker. After the adoption, she will graduate to the title of "aunt ...". I KNOW she has been open and honest with me.
One of my kids was in therapeutic care, and was headed for RT. He is extremely hyper, had some anger issues, and raged several times the first few months. He never injured my little boy, but I had to have line of site at all times. It wasn't easy. Now, less than a year later,he can still drive me nuts, but mostly with his hyperactivity. My much younger little boy? He absolutely LOVES his brother to pieces. He is also a sweet and loving and funny and smart child. To use words from Peter Pan, HE is my "happy thought". I KNOW where he was headed. At more than 15 previous foster homes, and with numerous lies from former foster homes who didn't like his hyperactivity or just didn't want the complete sibling set and had to come up with a way to separate them, the county was running out of options.
Also, in my state, there ARE foster children in mental hospitals for children JUST because there aren't enough homes. ESPECIALLY boys. I respect all the opinions on this thread, you guys have BTDT. And you've got blood, sweat, tears, and sometimes remorse and guilt to show for it. Maybe my kid defies the odds. All I know is, the rest of my family and I have been totally blessed by having him. Stand strong, Milehigh, for you are just as right as the other posters here. Thank God I did not have so much adamant advice against taking our kids!!! If I had read this thread prior to getting our kids, I probably would have been scared off, just like this family has now been. And I would have so blown it.

[Binny]

Looks like you already made your decision. Just wanted to send a HUG. I am sure the decision was difficult.

[d.joy.06]

So I just want to say on behalf of all foster youth.. THANK YOU!! I have had my share of foster families and I have been in group homes and a mental facility because there was no foster homes open. I have been (well change that since i turned 18, I was in care) for 4 years. "The Teenage Years" or as some may say "The rebellious years" of my life I spent moving around. I had to move 6 times before I finally found a placement that treated me very well and who was not in it (like some) just for the money.
There are so few people who have the courage to take on another persons responsibility. People like this have a heart for something more then just themselves. If I was not in foster care I would not be in college getting my degree. With foster parents, such as yourselves, inspiring me to do better and become better i would not be where i am today.
So here is my thanks. For all the tantrums you put up with, for all the fights, for even the yelling "Your not my real parents", I want to thank you all for still loving us as we are. I may be just a teen still but i have grown up so fast and i appreciate all that every foster parent has done for me. And you may not have been my foster parent but you are a foster parent to a child and I am just expression my feelings, which is hard for some children to do, in hopes to give you the motivation and inspiration to keep up the great jobs that you all are doing.
Thanks form the bottom of my heart.
DJP

[Bamamom07]

DJP, thank you, thank you for posting this for us! I wish the OP and many more will see it. I read somewhere somebody said every kid needs somebody who is crazy about them. And they do. True, some wounds are too deep, and mental illness can be very severe and scary. But we are wrong to assume the worst here. Your post just so beautifully spoke for so many kids.... and because of it, more foster kids may get their families! So here's love and hugs to you, and my wish to you that you will always LIVE LOUD! Be noticed for the good you do, not for the recognition it will bring you, but for the good it is already bringing to others.

[Sdirector]

I guess from reading most of the responses here, my family must be doomed! My 12 year old niece has been raised by a severely absusive bmom for the first eight years of her life. Then, she spent over three months in a psychiatric hospital, and has spent time in a group home. I guess that we don't have a hope!

I know, I am being sarcastic here, and it is good that people share their experieces, but those experiences do not hold true for everyone! I wonder if the majority of the sucessful people who have undertaken older child adoption just do not post on internet forums? Maybe they are too busy living happy lives?

My niece's issues are relatively minor. But, to listen to some here, she should be totally disfunctional. After all, they don't admit children to psychiatric hospitals for no reason!

The problem is, all many of these facilities and doctors have to go on is what is reported by the caregivers. Some caregivers see things through a different lens, perhaps because of their own disfunctions. I am not saying that about anyone specifically here, just some of my own real life observations. Think about it... if a caregiver keeps reporting symptoms that are worsening, perhaps because of their lack of structure, or their own issues, what is a psychiatrist to do? Increase the meds, group home, residential treatment facility, or a psychiatric hospital. The professionals can treat the child easier than the adults.

If the child is not doing well, perhaps all of the problem is not the child! Maybe it is the adults in the situation? I know, that is why people have to go into this with their eyes wide open, but why be so negative that you scare off someone who might be able to do this well?

At any rate, our soon to be daughter is not without her issues. However, most of them appear to be ADHD related, or just a matter of being a bit spoiled (I really don't know how that happened!), but all of the acronymed disorders are not applying. How do we know this? Because her therapist, and her psychiatrist, are totally amazed at the difference that she is showing in our "stable, loving home." We are already talking about reducing and eliminating some medications, and her therapist is already talking about phasing out, as she is a "different child" than she was.

So, never underestimate the value of a stable, loving home. No, it might not be easy, but how often is something so worthwhile easy?

I will apologize in advance for any offenses caused with this post, as I have also learned that these are very emotional issues, and some are very sensitive in these matters. I do not mean to offend.

[frontporch]

Not sure about the laws and policies in your state, If selected, will you get to review the case file?

We've been selected on two boys that we're super excited about and awaiting their case file now.

But, we've had the opportunity to get quite a bit of information by just asking questions. (From what I've heard in talking to her on the phone, it seems like a good worker. . . she has two years of experience which in our state is "pretty good").

We knew from our early contact with their worker that the youngest was placed in an RTC. He was 6 at the time and we couldn't help but wonder about the home he was in. It was a gut feeling at the time. "Our" children were placed in a Therapuetic home from the start. Both of the boys went to an RTC from their first TFL but at different times. . . we couldn't help but wonder about the home before but now that we know both boys went to the RTC from the same home, we really wonder. Then again, the home may have been legit. But, the point being that we got quite a bit of information about the placements and reasons etc from the worker.

It's interesting to me that most responses don't take into account that we are all prepared to handle different behaviors and what seems to be unacceptable to many may or may not be an issue for you.

Information is critical- ask questions, review any paperwork, etc.