[roselee]

We have been chosen to adopt a 10 year old boy who has been in a group home for two years. He really wants a family and seems to fit in our family really well. Our last phone conversation, however, was a little disheartening but probably normal. This child really wants to be adopted and desires to be perfect-in everyway. When he is doing really good, he feels on top of the world. If he messes up, he feels worthless. So, during our conversation with him, he told us things like he broke his leg while doing a back flip during snowboarding and broke his elbow while running across the street... a car ran over his elbow. He also stated that he sees some of his relatives a lot, but we know that's not true. He is not known to be a lier, but an embellisher as said in his report. He gets good grades in school and has lots of friends. The staff at the group home love him.

Has anyone else experienced this embellishment or slight little lies to make things sounds more impressive. Is this a normal 10 year old boy thing?

[lucyjoy]

This is an attachment disorder thing-in my opinion. Kids with attachment problems do really well in group homes but have harder times adjusting to families. One thing you want to research if you haven't already is why this child is in a group home rather then a foster home. At 10, I wouldn't buy it being a space issue. And lying is lying no matter what term is used to describe it. The more important thing to consider is does he believe the lies. I have a child who makes up stories and then convinces himself they are true. He then stores them in his memories of reality. This is a serious problem as he tends to not be able to grasp what's real and what isn't.

[Faith65]

B does the same thing and she is 13. She also does the thing where she stores her stories as memories too. Which they are not. This I have been told is part of the attachment disorder. I also make a point to ask be if it's her truth or the real truth. She is now getting it. B has had 13 placements in the last 4 plus years with a good year in residental.

Living in a family is so hard and a big adjustments for these kids but really possible.

[Lorraine123]

I would take it seriously. They can call it embellishment if they want, but its still lying. A ten year old should not be doing this to the extent this child is. If he is lying to impress you, what lies will he tell to impress others once he is in your home (about you). Do more research on his background.

[Faith65]

We have made it very clear to B that she is lying and she has consiquences for this. This is also part of a child with attachment issues to tri angulate and make others response to her, also a way to draw attention to herself. When she first came to us this accured a lot but as time as gone on she is understanding this is not a positive but hurts her and others that want to build a realationship with her and love her.

[Again!]

My youngest son was 4 when he got a rope burn on his neck from his brother, 5, 'roping' him while playing cowboys. A month or so later the scab/scar was still visible and someone asked him about it. He told the adult that my oldest son, then 13 or so, had done it. And he believed it. A minor problem, but had it been the school asking, and had he pointed the finger at an adult instead of a teen, and had there not been witnesses...

Lying can be a very scary thing in these kids. Mine have added many details to the stories about their birth parents, and some clearly contradict the facts. That isn't so bad, but when they start talking about injuries you have to worry about false reports of abuse and that can turn into a very big deal.

[Faith65]

Again,

We have had B do the same thing on a few different occasions. It is very scary indeed because not all understand attachment disorders and how these think and response. What I have found to help is educating those in close contact with our daughter and family. This has helped everyone alot mostly our daughter. When folks are told something by her they know how to pick through the story and find the truth or get B to tell the truth. She has also learned the hard way how her stories have hurt folks that want to love her but how she also suffers too.

B's stories and mixed up thoughts are getting clearier and clearier. She is working hard on telling the truths and shorting things out in her mind. But, when there are stress things she slips into old behaviors to protect herself and this is one that she will do.

[SevenAngels]

When K first came to live with us, she told us whoppers for the first couple of weeks. We challenged her on them and helped her understand that her stories were ridiculous. She told us that she was a black belt in karate. We pursued it and asked lots of questions about it that she couldn't answer. Then we all started making up crazy stories, such as "I walked on the sun yesterday" or "I built this whole house in three days all by myself". She hasn't told us any stories like that since then.

We also explained to her that she doesn't have to make up stories about herself to make us love her, and that we already love her for who she is. There is no need to try to impress us.

[roselee]

Thanks for the replies!!

I really don't think that our future child (coming to us in April) has RAD. I have done a lot of research on him and he has been attached to his great aunts since birth - although he has never lived with them. There are health and age issues which is why they can't adopt. He also still has a close relationship with is former teacher and current teacher. He visits his former teacher in the same school almost everyday just to say hi and talk briefly about his day.

He has good behavior in and outside of school and his "embellishment" of stories seem to be minor (except under extreme stress like right now - possibly getting adopted). His current teacher just told me a few days ago that he has been "telling" everyone about how he will most likely get adopted. He told his counselor and teacher how he was excited yet scared at the same time (quite the verbalizer).

He did recently tell us a story that can be a lie. He told us a few days ago that he was eating "soft licorice" and chipped his tooth really bad and that just "happened" that day. Well, perhaps something else happened that he doesn't want us to know yet and feels he needs to come up with a story because we will be meeting him in a few weeks (such as he may have lost his tooth through abuse). That was the only questionable story since the last email.

I know there will still be stories but with this child there seems to be a reason behind them. If he does say some outlandish story like before, I like the another poster's response to just make up another outlandish tale! With this specific child, I think that may work. He would probably start laughing. He is quite the character and actually considered one of the class clowns and popular kids - in a good way.

He has been at the same school for two years and has several best friends. He has never gotten into trouble there. I would think with most RAD kids, the first months would be the "good times" then the closer the teacher or other staff members emotionally get to the child, the worse the behavior becomes. I am a school psychologist and have witness this behavior on several occasions. It just wasn't until now that I realize these certain kids most likely had RAD.

I could be completely wrong and maybe he does have RAD. I am most worried about how he will interact with me. He has never had a father and really seems to put my husband on a pedestal, although he is nice to me to...it's just a very different connection.

Regardless, I will continue my postings and updates. I will still need support, like all of us. No matter what, this child will have some attachment issues...I just question if its to the extend of RAD.

I would still like to hear peoples stories as I am sure others would as well.

I will still buy some of those good books regarding attachment and find a good therapist prior to our "child" (can't wait) coming to us, because it's so important to be prepared!!

[ajjhmf]

One thing to remember about RAD is that there is a different level of intimacy involved in living in a family situation that your could ever get in a school. He may appear attached to all of these people, but he's not living with them in a family setting. That is a big jump in intimacy level. There is a reason this child is in a group home and not a foster home, especially at his age. I would STRONGLY recommend have an assessment done by a trained attachment therapist. You can find one in your area through attach.org.

Blessings,
Jenny

[roselee]

I have already been emailed by attach.org regarding therapists in the area and will have him throughly tested and they will work with him.

Those are the people that will work with him right when he arrives. I know the reasons why he is in a group home, but I will not share them on this board for fear that some of you will only look at the bad and then act as though you know what the future holds for us (which is possible to speculate but just merely speculating is not fair because every situation is different and we are not God, so we really can't pretend to know the future). Stuff happened three years ago that do not pertain to now that I hope will not pertain to the future - enough said (no sexual abuse or cruelty to animals or people).

I will have him tested but people out there still have to admit that there could be a possiblity that NOT ALL older children from group home or therapeutic foster homes are RAD children. I have researched this child's history and fully am aware of what his history is.

I am not obviously not going into this blind but there are more bad stories on this forum then good. I would like to hear about a child that people had said it would be HELL only looking at the history of the child, but then to find out that the experience was better than expected!

Thanks

[roselee]

I also understand there is a whole new level of intimacy when living with someone as opposed to a group home setting. However, he is very close to his advocate and counselor who have seen him almost every day (minus weekends) for two years. His seeing these people has been more than a "by and hi" relationship. This child has gone to them on a daily basis and express his "ups and downs" for the day and has sought out the counselor when he really needs to talk or needs help with putting his feelings into words. The counselor did mention the same thing some of you are mentioning, that although he has developed strong bonds at the group home, it will probably still be different with us.

I am VERY scared at the same time holding out hope that this will work out and that given the right supports at the beginning (counseling through attach, church, etc.)., that we can thwart some problems that others of you may have experienced.

Didn't any of you do that? Hold out hope? Tell me if you are very happy that you did adopt your child(ren), that you may have known or later found out were RAD.

Am I doing the right things here (i.e., reading, setting up a counselor, psychiatrist, maintaining similiar structure at first as they did in the group home, etc.)? Anything else I am missing?

I can't even experess to you the myraid of emotions I am experiencing right now, but I am sure you all can relate: you have been there.

Still remember, this child may not be RAD but I don't want to be blind-sided either.

I can appreciate everyones responses but it seems that most of you are trying to already say that this child is RAD. The beginning post, I can completely see why you would say that. But now??? Am I misperceiving your words?? That is quite possible right now.

[bromanchik]

There is a tendancy in the adoption community to define every child in foster care as RAD. However, full blown RAD is not as common as people think. Additionally, many of the "symptoms" such as lying, can be symptoms of so many other things, such as adjustment disorders, bereavement (which can happen in times of great change) and even ADD/ADHD. It could be he is afraid to tell you the truth for a variety of reasons including fear of reprimand and rejection. I would be very careful about placing a RAD label on any child without a thorough assessment. (Which I am sure I don't have to tell you, but I think it needs to be on this thread in writing.)

This said, reading up on attachment/attachment parenting is a good thing. There will be a lot of adjusting going on. There are a couple great books out there. "A Child's Journey Through Placement" is good, as is "Helping Children Cope With Seperation and Loss". I highly recommend both of them.

BTW, I have a bio ten-year-old who is fully attached and embellishes too. Ten is a very dramatic age. Things need to be exciting.

[ajjhmf]

Roselee,

It's obvious you've taken some offense to our posts and advice. I would not have posted to seek out an attachment therapist had you mentioned you had already done so. Instead you defended his attachment to people he does not live with. A red flag in our world. I feel, as do many of us seasoned parents here, that seeking help from a trained attachment therapist is a very important step in the placement of a child with a history as you have described.

You asked is we hold out hope or condemn children based on their case files. Of course we hold out hope. But over the years we've seen and experienced things that have made that hope more realistic. In the beginning of my journey, I believed that love and prayer and therapy could cure all. I believed that I could "fix" things I had not broken. But reality is often different than belief and when someone comes seeking advice with those same hope filled words, I feel it is best to offer a word of caution, because living with something and reading about it are two very different things.

Blessings,
Jenny

[Lorraine123]

Roselee -

You will not like what I have to say, but I think you are underestimating the likelyhood of this child having RAD. True, I don't know and I can't diagnose from what you have said, but you have posted many things that are red flags (the lieing is the least of it).

I know you think you have all the facts about why the child was placed in a group home, but usually that is not the case. The state will not keep a fully attached, healthy child in a group home. It costs too much.

Please realize that living in a group home is totally different than living in a family. The fact that they are telling you that he is attached to his caretakers and teachers is a red flag to me.

I see that you think we are all posting just the negative, but we are also posting what we see and know. We live it every day. We know what it is like to live with a child like the one you are describing above.

Do I think you should say no to this child. Absolutely not. Only you can answer that. But I hope you listen to us who have been there and realize that it will be a very tough road. We have lived daily lives in our families with children like this one, while the caretakers in the group home have not. We do have credibility.

Like Jenny said, its a whole different ball game to read about it than it is to live it. We knew our daughter had RAD when she came home and we thought we could deal with it. We did research, we talked to therapists, we read every book ever written about it. But we were still unprepared for what we got. While this child may not have full blown RAD, he will have attachment issues just from his life experience.

We aren't trying to talk you out of proceeding, just pointing out that it will be very tough. I love my daughter, I will fight for her needs with everything I have, I will care for her forever, but I am also exhausted, overwhelmed and hopeless.