[awaitingagirl]

We were recently given a referal of 3 sisters ages 10, 12, 15. We have 2 bio boys at home ages 2 and almost 5. I have been getting mixed info back from family about doing this. They are worried about the boys not getting all the attention, or that they wouldnt understand, or that there would be some resentment-acting-out in them...worried that the family dynamics would be altered possibly in a bad way. The girls are pretty normal as any state children are, have some sexual abuse issues to work out but have been doing that for about 3 yrs now in the same foster home with no current acting out. Im not worried about the girls as I am about the boys I have at home. I see things very differently, I think the boys would enjoy having them here. Anyone have any insights? Good or bad? I need some stories or something form moms who have done this...we are new at adoption!
Thank you!

[HappyMomAnna]

This subject is one of those on the forum where many of us very much disagree at time.... The issue of 'out of order' adoption or adopting a child older then the children already in the home....... There are some fantastic stories of success and families who have had very few problems....

These girls are much older then your boys.... and there is a five year span between the youngest girl and your oldest son which for me would minimize some of my concerns about the boys--feelings of being displaced and made no longer the 'oldest'...


I would get as many details about the sexualized behaviors, nature of therapy and details about the true issues here--Keeping in mind that often DHS and current foster placements will NATURALLY minimize things in order to have children placed into a home..... My expereince has been that any info provided needs to be very carefully reviewed--as there are WORDS that pack a bigger meaning often and we who are wanting to add to our families sometimes gloss over the words...that can hold the biggest punch....

I might review any info you do have with a therapists that you can provide continued care for the girls.... A professional may give you ten paragraphs for any word you have--and for me personally I would like to see what someone with experience might have to say about the profile--or details you have today.

Sexual abuse is simply not something that most children outgrow--and often sexually abused children will need therapy for years--especially at certain stages of life where changes occur. Some sexually abused children still need help after they have grown up, and become parents themselves.... This is by far one of the most horrible thing that children can face-and it can affect a persons thinking and self image for many years after the abuse has ended.

Anyway--it is difficult to give good advice some of these questions are personal and only you can answer....

I can say that you will have a ride range of ages and children with a great number of issues to deal with....All the children in a home will have individual needs and you will have a time for sdjustment....Teen years are hardest and you will be in that up to your eyebrows....

I also firmly believe that what matters most in these kinds of foster and adoption situations has to be The Children being placed---they need to be most important just like a newborn baby is when they first come home.... What has to matter most is the HURT children in this situation....otherwise they will not feel safe in your home.... It takes a good while for most of these children to feel safe enough to test the situations...it could be wonderful for a year and then things go wild and crazy--and take another two to settle back down into a NEW NORMAL....

[Dr. Art]

You need more than stories and annecdotes!!! As Happy states, DHS will often under-represent the extent and severity of the issues present. I'd strongly urge you to get a thorough evaluation fo the girls by a competant therapist who is appropriately trained and experienced in these issues. I'd suggest you call a Registered Clinician with ATTACh and use someone near you, or ask for a referral from the nearest person. You will also be able to use the evaluations to get the appropriate subsidy. I can't tell you how many families I treat that had their child misrepresented to them and that had a "regular" rate, and after our evaluation, were reclassified at the special or extraordinary rate. It is not about money, but you do need suppor to get the appropriate treatment and you may need to stay home full time with the children.

regards

[awaitingagirl]

Dr. Art,
Do you think there will be a real problem adopting these girls (10,12,16) in regards to placement in the family. My oldest son will be 5 at the end of this month. Does it cause significant damage if he isnt the oldest anymore...by 5+ years?
I of course will do as you say with the therapist. Do you recommend I speck with the therapist they are/were seeing to see how they would react with my boys? Or what types of questions should I ask. Girls were sexually abused by father and uncle.
THank you so much.
Aaron

[JulieW]

We adopted siblings ages 4, 7 and 9 with bio children 9 and 2. We were not told the whole story about their issues and even the psych evaluation we had done on them did not cover what we would face.

If you do move forward my biggest advice is prepare yourself to be supervigilant. Because of their behaviors, my adopted children cannot play anywhere unsupervised, they have to sleep with alarms on their doors and baby monitors in their rooms. We have to keep chemicals, knives and such locked up. They need a tremendous amount of structure and loving firmness to even function.

You also have to prepare yourself emotionally for rejection, I did not expect our children to appreciate what we were doing, but I was poorly prepared for their rejection of me and pushing every button they can find to upset me as to not get close to me. The hardest thing I have ever learned to do is not let their behaviors hurt me personally and how to treat them with love and empathy no matter what.

Then there's the cost of therapy. We are spending close to $6000 on one child for attachment therapy not covered by insurance. We are spending $2000/month on one child for a therapeutic foster care because he was too dangerous to live in our home (he killed our cat and repeatedly tried to harm our 2 year old despite my efforts to keep everyone safe).

Some books I recommend pre adoption are:

Parenting the Hurt Child - Gregory Keck
When Love is Not Enough - Nancy Thomas
Building the Bonds of Attachment - Daniel Hughes
Attaching in Adoption - Deborah Gray

I read all of these books before adopting and honestly I don't think I realized that our lives would mirror the case stories in the books so closely. I read them "just in case". So when the behaviors started, I at least was able to see what was going on. But I didn't realize how hard it would be on me. I recommend lining a good therapist for yourself too. On top of everything, I have a fair amount of Post Adoption Depression too, something you don't hear about often. For me I am grieving - the loss of a dream of what I thought itwas going to be like.

But, with the right preparation, ready to take head on any issues they have - I can say that adopting older children is a wonderful thing. Had I to do over, I would have adopted all three, even though we are having do disrupt with the youngest. He is still better off than he would have been in an orphanage in Guatemala. And with the girls, the glimmers of hope that come few and far between, make the many difficult days worth it.

[Dr. Art]

First, recognize that children this age with the history they probably have will mean they are very likely quite disordered. Do you really have the time to devote to their treatment? You will most likely need to devote full-time (meaning no employment) to each one, one at a time, over a period of two to three years or so.

You can talk with their previous therapist, but you need to get an independent evaluation as I suggested.

Yes, it will be quite a transition and shock to your son. Not only won't he be the oldest but you will have substantially less time for him; substantially less!

The books suggested by Julie W are fine...But I'd start with Building the Bonds of Attachment by Daniel Hughes, Ph.D. as that will give you a good idea of what it will take to heal the children BUT TIMES 3!

Best of luck

[HappyMomAnna]

I honestly do not think I would have ever been able to survive had I takne Makala and Jermiah while my bios were still living at home. Even though my oldest are at college--It breaks my Heart sometimes to realize how much LESS of me they have.

My oldest is a SAX player at the University on Full Scholarship because of his musical talent....and driving an HOUR to see him play is something that JUST never is able to happen.... If I do go see him I have a choice--Find two sitters because Makala cannot be with her brother unless I am in charge--Or take one or both with me.... If I take them I CANNOT be sure what I can expect--we could find things go well--or she could erupt in the middle of the concert and FREAK out....

I have a great amount of MOTHER guilt with my oldest two--something that is difficult to find any kind of supprt for because after all they are grown what could they possible need from me..... ?

It has been two years since our daughter who was "Ready to Attach with her Forever Family" moved in..... It has been about a year since we figured out she has RAD....

We were told these children were basically PROBLEM free and had nothing to be concerned about--We have spend a lot of money--time and TEARS finding out that there are things we can never be sure they will overcome...

My older childre were just 14 months apart and I was in my 20's when I have them.... THEY were NEVER as difficult to handle as this past two years has been.... Yes I had to watch those two like any mother would--but I never had to fear that one would sexually abuse the other---Normal child play sure--but our daughter KNOWS way too much for this kind of stuff to be normal....

Right now we are desperatly searching for Trained and Qualified people to help us by providing Respite care one weekend a month.... We need time to rest--and we have tried the friends and family care methods--We cannot do that any more--Friends and family are NOT trainded to maintian the structure and system we have--They don't like changing a three year olds diapers because he is not potty trained in order to keep him safe--and they are not ready to deal with the possiblities of a false alagation or some kind of sexualized behavior that is sure to come out.... We have NOT had any quality time off in over two years.

My older children do not even want to come home for weekends or school breaks...Not because they do NOT love thier new siblings---but because it is simply too stressful... When either of the older ones come to spend a weekend our routine is disrupted and we end up taking 20 steps back in the calm we have found....

If I had taken Makala and Jermiah when Sean and Tori were young I have no idea how much this would have denied them of my time--I can imagine that if that had been the case--I would be feeling like I very much cheated my HEALTHY children out of my time and energy.

I personally always advise that families wanting to adopt special needs or older children WAIT until the children who are healthy are old enough to deal with a lot less of their parents then the average child recieves....

I won't say do not do this--there are fmilies that have had great results and none of the problems many of us face--But I will say that I have met a FEW and only a FEW families who adopted children they KNEW had serious issues---the reast of us were told Love them and get therapy and Everything will turn out roses... Most of us recieved reports that our children had FEW issues....

[awaitingagirl]

Thank you all for your advice and expierences. I think after careful consideration and thoughts of everyone I have talked to about this, we are gonna hold this one out. We are gonna wait for the referal of our infant daughter, then adopt a girl later on between the ages of 3-9.
Dr. Art, thank you so much!

Aaron

[Lady Bird]

Hello,

I have a son now 10 yrs. and from what I have read, I should only be looking for a child younger than my son. There is a wonderful book I'm reading called Adopting and Advocating for the Special Needs Child by Ann Babb and Rita Laws. I have read about 6 or 7 other books, but this one really puts it all out there for the family looking for older children.

Please, whatever is in your heart at this time, do READ EVERYTHING you can get your hands on before doing anything. Join a support group if you can and learn as much as you can fit into your head first. I have been on this path for 3 years and we just started our home study. With children in the home, the need to REALLY KNOW what your doing is so totally a must. The children who are older, poor babies, they have lived in hell and they can't help but try to hide it and at the same time express it. Younger children can get hurt in that process, so I would have to say...walk slowly into something that can turn your lives upside down.

Now, of course I don't know anything first hand, but I have read another five books just this month and I have really learned so much and now...eyes wide open, I am ajusting my age limit from 12 down to 5 or maybe 6 so that the new child is younger than the son I have now.

In anycase, best wishes for you and for your dreams. You must have a big heart, and i know it can be so hard to know what to do. I was a member here a few years back, and now I have come in here again to learn more.

May Blessings Be,

Lady Brid.