[imtimm2]

As I'm reading through these threads, trying to find someone that shares my history, I realized that maybe "older child" adoption problems sometimes overshadow the "younger" older child adoption issues.

I was given up with the assistance of the courts at the age of 14 months and labeled "hard to place."(this was the 70's) I spent some time in foster care, before being placed with my adoptive parents just shortly before I turned 2. The social workers assured my aparents that this was a fabulous fit as my amom "resembled" my bmother and my adad was built just as my bfather was. Although being vague on the actual reason for being placed for adoption the swers sited neglect and abuse, dropping hints of sexual abuse, with the recommendation of changing my name because if my bfamily saw me and recognized me, they may call out to me, and chances are at my age I would go. (odd story to tell huh?) All in All my aparents where assured of a perfect fit. (Side note is that my abrother, my amom and I all have the same features and coloring, with NO one suspecting or even believing that we were adopted and shared NO blood)

What wasn't realized in the 70s was the emotional turmoil any child goes through with adoption, and even before the age of two I had bonding issues that have been evident in all my relationships, especially with my amom. Back then, therapy wasn't encouraged, or even mentioned, and the obvious affects of putting an abused child with someone who looks like the abuser just is too much for me to fathom even now.

All my life I have battled the demons of being "given up" or "taken away" as it turns out, and when adopting it should mean a forever commitment....including getting the help needed for both the child and the family to cope with an older child adoption. This is probably clear cut in today's adoptions, but it should be considered as the adoptees of years gone by struggle with the turmoil in adulthood. It's never too late.

At the age of 31, and after a birthfamily search (& found) straight from hell, followed by years of therapy, and actually treating the depression that plagued my life, I am able to call myself an adoptee and a survivor who is enjoying life. Unfortunatley, I am not able to share that with my amom as she can't seem to see that the angry little girl I was grew into a happy young woman and mother of two beautiful kids. After all these years, one would think she would want to reep the rewards of the years of hell I put her through.

~Stacey

[ladyjubilee]

Stacey,

I'm a cynic and blunt, so that this with a grain of salt.

You indicate the angry young girl has grown up......then knock Amom becaus she "can't seem to see".

Did I miss something, cause I gotta be honest I don't see the maturity in shifting the focus on to someone else. I do that in those immature moments. When I have mature moments, I think things like, "oh crap, I did that...and that....and that. Its no wonder my mom still thinks I'm an irresponsible 16 year old."

[imtimm2]

I can see where you might think that, but after writing several letters in fact saying yes, I did do this and this....and yes, I am so sorry, and I have learned from my mistakes. I have sought the help and the treatment I needed to be a better person, and at some point, wouldn't you agree, it's time to put the past in the past and appreciate who we are today?

I was indeed a horrible teenager, but I am 31 today. Do I have to continually be reminded everyday of what a horrible person I was? Do my kids need to hear her tirades of all that I did wrong all of 15 years ago while she screams and calls me names?

I guess it's all a matter of perspective. Thanks for your " blunt" input, that's what these forums are all about

[HappyMomAnna]

I am not so sure the way your amom is acting is any different then any other parent who has raised a child who caused troubel as a teen..... My parent and my husbands parents often remark about our childhoods---tell sories about the time my husband hich-hiked to Mexico or his mother woke up and found a cheerleader in her house!
I am constantly reminded that I was the type where 'everything' was the most important thing to me---all of my 'child' behaviors are brought up often---and repatibly and my older children can tell me stories about my childhood that I have forgotten. My father still calls me 'Jaws' because I talk alot--and the family saying of-- 'telephone--tellagraph--telleanna' still haunt me to this day. If anyone wants anyone else in my family to know something--they all tell me because I am a blabber mouth...and make it clear I don't keep secrets.
I am 40--and my daddy still talks about that night when I was five and he had to put me back in bed a 100-times!

I think it is important that as adoptive parents or even as adopttes that we try to seperate the issues that are normal from the issues of adoption. If I had been adopted I am sure I would believe my parents still talk about this junk because of that--when in reality they are just talking about me--what I did or did not do and how I was a child. I think all parents do this---Are adoptive parents supposed to NOT remember or talk about you as a child--and if they didn't talk about you as a child wouldn't you have as much of a problem with that?

[imtimm2]

I must be very alone in my thinking, or not getting my point across at all.

It would be different if stories of the past could be told as stories, and maybe even spiced up with a good memory as well. I couldnd't be pure evil could I? What's consuming is the "you did this" and the finger pointing, followed by the guilt laying and claims of I owe her an apology, of which I have given repeatedly. Every conversation is riddled with accusations leading to time honored tradition of yelling.

Granted not all sitautions are about adoption, but in my case, I assure you it is. My mother and I never bonded, she'll be the first to tell you that, and it's kinda easy to explain why, seeing as how I wasn't adopted until just before I was 2. Everyones got a story, and as far as mine goes it's rather detailed.

I do appreciate knowing that other kids were hellions as teens as well, kinda proves my point that I wasn't so out of the realm of normal. But, according to amom, my problems were not a result of their parenting, but the result of adopting a "hard to place" child. They had adopted my brother as an infant, and to this day have a wonderful relationship with the golden child. Kinda funny, he was the one who had the cheerleader in her bed, matter of fact...got her pregnant too......and didn't marry her either....and I'm the bad seed! LOL

~thanks for the input!

[HappyMomAnna]

Well I can see that if you have been repeatable told that it was becase you were 'hard to place' and if these conversations lead to yelling and belittlement that you do indeed have the right to claim your hurt over this...... In fact it makes me pause and remember that my 'difficult' child is a surprise birthchild who is now 19---and I will take some time to give her some of the good sories as well--because she was HARD from day one and still is and it is easy for me to call her to the mat.

Some mother--like me--acutally seem to bond better to sons--I cannot explaine why it is this way, except that I also have few female friends and enjoy the company of men much better---some mothers don't think about how the little things we say---over and over---hurt. And other parents are flat out dysfunctional. I would say a mother of a 31 year old grown woman who finds the need to yell about the past might fall into the catagory of dysfunctional....

Have you ever stopped to consider that problem may not be YOU---but, her? In that case you have the same choices that any of us who come to understand that a parent is toxic has.... Adoption does not make a parent better---it just gives them a child to raise. Hard to place or not--difficult pregnancy, delevery and craying all night---these things can affect a mothers point of view even as a birthmother. I am ashamed to admit it but, I do hold my daughter more responsible in ways---after all we are both girls.

Double standards are very hard to aviod--especially during the times you grew up....My parents exopected far more of me in moral and values then either of my borthers....And I hate to admitt it I would have much lees of a problem had a cheerleader woke up in my home--vs. my daughter waking up at another mothers house.....yikes I have double standards.

The real fact is that a toxic parent/child relationship is not good for anyone. If things go so far downhill that there is yelling then that is not good for you or your amom.... No more good for you then any other toxic relationship would be.

I might try and tell my mom that the past is the past--bonded or not--does she wish to contiue to be part of your life today?

[dadfor2]

oh my childhood.....lol...oh the memories.

I was the black sheep of the family. When i was a teenager, i was thrown out of two high schools, just to give you an idea what kind of teen i was..... and believe me, i can go on and on and let you know the havoc i raised as a kid. I could go on and on......but i wont...

I put my family through hell. I am not adopted, i was just a confused teenager who rebeled against everything, for no reason at all.

what happened to me? my family were great, i had a pretty normal childhood, however i never felt i fit in as a little boy. Why? who the heck knows.

well, i am an adult, and a different person today then i was. I got my GED, graduated college with honors...I have proven myself to be a responsible adult. I have a family, a house (sorry, no dog or white picket fence, but who knows)....lol.......I have a great job that i love, been working here for 10 yrs.

I love my family, and they love me....however...If i bring up an issue with my family, sometimes i get a responce "well, you know how you are". They will never forget the pain i caused them. THey cant put aside the man i was before and the man i am today. They just cant do it. They are supportive of me in every way, but even though a long time has passed, how can they just 'forget'.

TO be honest, i cant forget, i remember what i did, i remember how i was, it still haunts me today. I dont let my past struggles stand in the way, but its there, it will always be there.

To ask why parents, adoptive or birth, can just forgive and forget, its not that easy. they all wish we do well as adults, but they raised us, they went through there insecurities, we pushed our parents buttons for years. To pretend that it doesnt matter now, is impossible. We are our pasts. Its what we do with it that matters.

We can change for the better, but dont expect everyone else to just accept it and move because we did.

anyway, thats my two cents.
dadfor2

[imtimm2]

Thank you so much for your two cents worth...again validating that I'm NOT outside the realm of the a normal teenager.

Thanks!

[imtimm2]

Anna,
You and I are indeed on the same page, as I wasn't explaining myself very well.

As my current relationship stands with my amom, I have repeatedly asked, just short of begged, her to see a mediator with me, and she has flat out said NO, and that our relationship is over. At this point, I am standing firm in my resolve, and it is time for her to claim some ownership in this whole thing. It is her problem now, and as we do not speak, I pray that my family can get past this crisis with the help we need.....

ANYONE KNOW DR. PHIL?

[riley6]

Stacey, your mom sounds a lot like my gma. She and my mom were estranged for three years before she died. She couldn't let go of the past and accept my mom ( her biological child) for who she was. She always lived in the past. It was a real shame.

I think that I learned from her to not hold things against my kids forever. My 20 year old son put my husband and I through hell. Our marriage almost didn't make it. He is now a wonderful young man. He's very responsible and makes very good choices. I CAN'T stay in the past. If I did, I would never know the wonderful person my son has become. I'm truely sorry that your mom can't get past your childhood. She is missing out on her daughter and her grandchildren. Move on though, don't let her hold you back from enjoying life and loving your family.

As for difficult to place children, I'm adopting four of them, two teens, two younger ones with RAD. I could never hold it against them if I was unable to bond with them. I don't understand how your mom could blame you (which is what it is sounding like).

Are you able to have a relationship with your brother, or has your mom ruined that one too?

[imtimm2]

Unfortunately my brother and I have never had much of a relationship, and I think we are both okay with the fact that we have next to nothing in common. We have had several conversations, just he and I about our childhood and believe or not he will acknowledge he is favored, and in return is rigid about his children being treated equal.

I've never really pushed for anything more than what I have with my brother, as he doesn't with me. I'm actually relieved to know that he's there for more my aparents, and although it may be unfair of me to "burden" him with them, I kinda figure he has it coming after all the years of being handed everything.

I do hold tight to my birth sister that I found 7 years ago in my search, as she is just 10months my junior, and our lives are unbelievably parrelled by something more than coincidence.

thanks for your input~
Stacey

Stacy,

I think I can see what you are talking about. To be repeatdly told that were were a hard to place child is not an easy thing to hear as a child. But I am not sure that adoption was the real issue, I think your amom may have been like that with her own. Sometimes personalities just don't mesh whether bio or not. 14 momths is not in my mind an older child. I was 2 1/2 when my parents adopted me, and there are others on this forum that were around the same age. It was the responability of your amom to put age differences aside and just bring up children. I go ballistic when I see such blatent favortism going on in a family....did it not occur to you or your amom that your teen behavior may have been the result of her upbringing. your abrother saw the problems and is now making sure it doesn't happen in his family. He must have picked up on how bad it was for you, and recoginized your pain.

Donna

[lookwithlove]

Stacy,

I felt compelled to respond. I can be empathetic to your situation, because I too was a "hard to place" child. My bmom gave me up for adoption at the age of 4 1/2. My birth sister was also given up with me. (A blessing I never appreciated until and adult~~I am now 35) We spent a year at a foster home and then were placed together in a home with 2 natural childern and one deceased child. I grew up thinking that my sister and I were a replacement for the child that died at age 5. The bond with my amother was nonexistant. From day 1 I had memories of my "other family". Although I had block out the names, the faces and expierences were present. I would share these memories as an innoccent child not trying to hurt anyone, but to vendicate valid memories. (my younger sister has no memories of life prior to adoption) My amom continued to tell me that I was making up things to fill in a longing that I had. She would continue to tell me that there was no way that I could remember such details from such an early age (4yrs). I can't begin to tell you the frustration I felt. I was determined to prove my prior existence and even drew floor plans of the house I used to live in with my birth parents. These were later validated when I found my bmom. She too was astonished that I could remember so much. I had and still posess numerous memories. Needless to say, I rejected my amom from day 1. I told her that she was NOT my mother and that I wanted my mom back. This broke her heart. She told me as an adult that she too felt much rejection. She couldn't understand how I would not be greatful for the lavish life that they gave to me. Like you, I too have many emotional problems and depression. I do not trust anyone and often feel like the world is out to pull a quick one on me. I have put up many walls around me and am adamant about proving myself to others. The only problem is that I have yet determined just what I am attempting to prove. I must say that this life expierence has definately made me a strong-willed opininated individual. My adoption took place in the early 70's too. Many things contributed to my difficult childhood. My amom found out she was pregnant again at the time of our adoption. I never felt that she had properly grieved the loss of her other child. Nonetheless, she went from being of mother of two surviving children, but adopting two "hard to place" siblings and having a new baby. Today, I can truely understand the stress she must have been under. We battled all of my childhood. I have learned to accept through years of therapy that I was a good child, placed in a turmoil of situations at a very formative age. There were years of physical abuse and mental abuse that followed, but in the 70's beating your child was not considered abuse. I once had a sympathetic teacher who saw my bruises and tried to report it, but the school shunned it off~~because my parents were influential in our community. The more I rebelled at home, the worse it got. I was never allowed to obtain a drivers license, date, or do normal school functions. Our household was run like the military with chores and rule list that were ridiculous. My parents moved out of state when I was 17. After failed attempts to run away from the abuse, I was sucessful in talking my amom to allow me to be emancipated. I think that she knew that I was growing stonger in my convictions and feared what action I was willing to take to divulge the secret lives we lead...no one would have ever guessed. This seperation resulted in 9 years of no contact with my aparents (my siblings would try to keep in contact with me secretly on their own). The part that hurts the most is that this abuse was only afflicted on my birthsister and myself. My other siblings would watch in dismay, and try to figuire it all out. To this day, two of my asiblings refuse to even consider having any children of their own. I can't help but to believe that they know how messed up our lives were at times and maybe they feel they will never posess the skills they need to bring up a child. After years of abuse, I was free, only to later find myself in an abusive relationship. This abuse resulted in a loss of a child. I was 6 months pregnant and beat up and thrown down a flight of stairs. I gave birth a week later, but my child died prematurely. I am now happily married for 12 yrs with two beautiful boys. I was able to find my birthfamily after 7 years of searching. When my first child was born, I could not even imagine considering giving him up. These feelings caused me to harbor anger towards my bfamily. This was the first time in my life that I felt anything but love for them. I spiralled into a deep drepression and went through all the typical "why me's". It was my own precious children that gave joy in my life for the first time. My husband helped me realize that I had to give up all the anger I carried all my life. It was time to let go of the past. The greatest power is knowing that I am in charge of my own life and happiness now. I don't owe anyone any explainations for my feelings. My feelings are valuable and I am entitled to them. I have forgiven my birthfamily for placing me in this position. I have forgiven my amom for her faults. I am very committed to providing a wonderful, loving, carefree life for my boys. I want them to expierence life with the feeling of security. My adoption has in fact given me every reason to stand strong in these convictions. As strange as it may sound, today, I give thanks that I have these expierences to refect back on. I still remain in contact with my afamily and my bfamily. They were each put into my life for a higher reason. Although, I continue to suffer from depression, I now believe this higher reason is to teach me how to love and value my own children. They are truely a blessing. I hope that through my story that you are able to revisit with your own. There are reasons for which we might never know as to why this happened to us. Realize that you can not control your amom's thoughts, but you can rise above her, though and realize that maybe this has nothing to do with you per say. Perhaps YOU were placed in her life because she needs this relationship whether she is aware of it or not. Thank you for letting me share my life, and may you truely find an inner peace in yours.
You deserve to be good to yourself first,
Kelley

[HappyMomAnna]

Kelley~~~Thank you for your story as it is helpful to many on many different levels. I too grew up in the 70's and know the "normal abuse' that today would send my parents to jail! And I too understand inequity of children and they are treated by their parents. I left home at 17 for the same reasons as you did!!I too married a man who abused me for 15 years and I left only because of the love I had for my children.

But, most of all thank you for your story because I have just adopted a beautiful five year old little girl and her baby brother and do not ever want to deny the love she feels for her birthmother.....nor do I want to have a contentious life with my daughter. Thank you for reminding me that while my daughter has stories that have changed over this past year---they are still valid memories and to assume the forgetting of details and facts means the memories are no longer valid is harmeful to my little girl.....I am greateful to adoptee's who can tell the thruth of their life and let those of us who adopt understand more how to be better to our children---I love my a-daughter as much as my birthchildren and always will......your words help me do a better job.

[imtimm2]

Kelley,
Thank you so much for sharing your life, your story touched me beyond words.

It truly is amazing how life cycles itself, and how people who have nothing more in common than adoption itself, can find someone who's life mirrors their own, with situations more than just coincidence.

I can honestly say I felt something reading your story, and if you were standing before me having just told me that story, I would simply put my arms around you and give you the hug from someone who completely understands...and I guess that's why I use these forums because as much love and support my husband has given (he will be the first to know he just can not relate)he can only "imagine" where so many of us call it life.

~thanks again Kelley,
and I'd like so much to keep in touch.
Stacey