[beth1965]

Thanks for all of your comments. I think your mother's age had a great deal to do with her attitudes toward her birth family. The perception of adoption and of birthmothers/teen mothers has changed tremendously but were probably pretty ingrained in her. It's interesting that your grandmother was open enough to share information. That's wonderful. As for your comment about them looking for her. I have helped with several searches. Finding the birth family is FAR easier than an adoptee. Starting with having a name. They usually have nothing but a date of birth and gender to go with.

I will see what I can find both geneology & living relatives. If you have some names or dates that can help, please let me know. You can email or PM them.

[beth1965]

Found him in 1910. He was a private in the US Army stationed in Portland, ME. Guess that's why Leo was born in Maine. Unfortunately, because he's not the George living with his parents in 1910, it's going to be fairly difficult to trace further back on him as the 1900 census isn't indexed and the 1890 isn't complete. I'll try working on Esther now.

[Palaab]

I did end up subscribing to ancestry.com for the census and found george in Portland. I'm wondering if possibly one of the parents died around 1934-1935 and that would be the reason for the adoption. Just thinking of the death record for Leo where it had the mother's name as Beale, but nothing listed for father. She could have remarried and that's why it's so hard to find anything on George or Vesta. The ideal census for both of them would be the 1890, so it's just my luck that's the one destroyed! I'm planning to go to the Family History Center, but I'm still not sure what to look for. My father said he had heard that my mother had a connection with a home for troubled children in Portsmouth. They took in children when they needed help, such as poor families and such. I'm hoping to go to the Atheneaum to research that, in case they have records of who was there. I've spoken to employees there, about 6 years ago, and they don't think they have any records there, but I didn't really pursue it, but the historian at the library suggested trying there.

It is so nice of you to help with this. I have noticed that this can be quite addicting - I stayed up until 5am the past two nights! While I have access to the census, I started looking into her adoptive parents and found it quite interesting. Then my husband is interested in his family. My daughter's father died before she was born, so after we married my husband adopted her and I was thinking she would probably want info, too. This can get very confusing!! My father has researched his line back to the 1600's but I'm having a hard time getting him to find the time to help me out. But, his family has always been in this area, so it's a little easier than going from Michigan to Maine to NH to California!

I found George and Vesta's marriage record in Maine and her name is spelled as "VESTA"

[beth1965]

Definitely addicting! Finished my birthfathers and my husbands, so now I look for others to do! I did see the marriage record - gotta love Maine. The death index only lists the mother's maiden name because the assumption is that the father has the same last name. So it doesn't really say much for us. I have been looking further for Beale. I'm searching 1910 looking for Vesta/Ester/?? and can't find her on the index. That happens often because of transcription errors. So, I'm searching for either her mother or father based only on the place of birth. Problem is that most of the possibilities live in BIG cities with 68 pages to search. Still working. I did lose my confidence in John being Vesta's brother, though. I did find his family listed in 1910 - already in California. That in and of itself is no problem, but.... the mother is listed as having only 1 child/1 still living. Unless this is in error, she can't also be the mother of Vesta. The marriage in Maine lists NH as the address, but I find no Beale in NH on the census. I have three to search in MA, but it will take some time. If I can find her there, that will be very helpful.

At the family record center, any luck with the 1900 census would be good. I have no idea where George lived in 1900 - makes it hard to just browse. In the marriage, he listed NY as an address, so that would seem to be the place to start with MA as a secondary choice. If we can find him in 1900, we can go much further back. OR>>>>> if we can somehow access some of his military record as we know he was a private in the army in 1910. Those would probably be the things most helpful that we can't easily get online. Also, the marriage record doesn't seem to list parents' names online, but I wonder if the original document does.

[beth1965]

I think I may still be right about John H. Beale, born either 1885 or 1887 in Massachusetts and married to Margaret - mother's maiden name Crowdis. There also is a William Beale born in 1882 in Massachusetts that is a possibility. Anything you can find on either of them at the center could prove to be very helpful.

[Palaab]

I found a Vesta A. Allen that died in San Diego in 1960. Her mother's maiden name was Smith, so now I'm cross-referencing to see if that matches. The names I have had these 20 years are George D. and Vesta A. Allen, so that could be her. I didn't get a chance to go to the family history center today. I wanted to go with my father, since he's researched his whole line, I figured he could help me, but he made other plans, so I'm going to try to make a list of things for when I go.

[Palaab]

I also found a George Dennis Allen that died in San Diego in 1954, with his birthdate (as with Vesta's) in the correct range. His has mother's maiden name as Booher.

[beth1965]

Good Matches! I didn't think to search the California Index for them, but that makes a lot of sense with Leo being there. It does definitely eliminate John H. Beale, though, because his mother's maiden name was Crowdis and Vesta's is Smith.

All of these records are considered archives and are accessible from the state/county. Problem is knowing which county to contact. We should be able to get the information from the birth certificates (full mother & father's names). Also, I think that Vesta's parents must have married after the 1880 census as no Beale born in Canada shows up as a possible match, but many Smith's do.

[beth1965]

Bertha's dob could be helpful. If we assume she is deceased, you can search the SSDI with just first name and DOB. Of course, not everyone is in the SSDI. However, I also have a database which can search by first name/date of birth. Perhaps we can get a hit there.

[Palaab]

I had found Bertha Allen in the SS Death Index being born March 19, 1915 and dying Jan 1981, but I can't find her in the California Death Index to try to match the mother's maiden name. According to SSDI, she resided in Compton and Rosewood, Los Angeles, CA. I called the Burbank Library and I'm going to have to contact the libraries in each town to try to get the obituaries for her, Leo, George and Vesta, all of whom died in California. The birthdate and place match this Bertha, but that would only be if I was lucky enough she never married. LOL I have been digging all day through the 1900 census in Massachusetts to try to find Vesta. My husband is ready to throw me out of the house!!! That 1890 census would sure be awful helpful.

[Palaab]

Ok, it's getting frustrating. Bertha is not in the California Death Index. I couldn't find a match in the CA death index, no matter what I used; ie. just birthdate, just death date, just ss#. And then, George is not in the SSDI, no matter how I searched for him. It's midnight now and I have to get some rest! Thanks again for your help, it's nice to have someone else showing an interest, everyone around here has none!

[beth1965]

I understand your frustration. When I was doing my adoption search, my husband could have cared less and didn't understand (or care) what I was doing. So, after I did find them, people would ask him how I did it - he didn't have a clue. Now, he's on board though. And, after meeting a couple of the people for whom I've done searches, he no longer gets frustrated with my evenings on the computer.

I was thinking about Bertha. The SSDI lists the most recent address which may not be the place of death. She must not have died in California. But, a few other things. The one in the SSDI got her ss# in California. But Leo got his in New Hampshire. If she never married, she would have to have gotten a job before moving, or she'd have moved with Leo. Her birthdate seems perfect, though. Did you say you got school records on her also showing her date of birth?

I'm also still a bit baffled by Vesta's mom. I can't find a Canadian Beale to match up anywhere. She must have died before 1910. I did search in the CA index to see if anyone else had a mother's maiden name of Smith. Of course found a few. But, with cross referencing places of birth and such, don't think I found any matches.

Just wish George and Vesta were born at a different time. That 1890/1900 stinks. I did find an indexed version of 1900, but it only does head of household and isn't as easy to search.

Wish I could be more help. Maybe the family research center will open another door for us.

[Palaab]

I was thinking... If you got a chance, could you do the indexed search in the 1900 census for Allens living in Michigan and Maine just to have an idea of which counties there were some, and possibly Beale or Beal in Massachusetts? George would have been 16 and Vesta would have been 9 at that time. I have tried searching the 1900 one, but I think that would take years to go county by county...LOL I did email the Burbank Library for a copy of the obituary for Leo. If there was anyone still living at the time, I was thinking I could possibly contact them for info. I think anyone that would be negatively affected by me contacting them, by now, would be dead. I was thinking, a living person might actually be more help, since they might know the medical history better than the chances of me finding anything on paper. I read somewhere that you could only request death certificates from before 1948, but my friend, who works at a town hall, said every state is different, but it seems that it would be a lot of requesting to get each death certificate to find out the medical history. I still don't know much of what I'm doing!

[beth1965]

I agree, I don't think that the death certificates will give you much information. For starters, they don't address environmental issues: drinking, smoking, asbestos, weight, exercise, etc.... Only a living person will help with that. I also agree that it won't be a negative hearing from you. Leo was old enough that he and his wife would have been well aware of your mother and may also have passed that information on to their children.

As for the 1900 census, it doesn't let me just type in a last name like it does on ancestry.com. It wants a first name and gives me a few thousand suggestions! I'm going to check out their help pages tonight and see if there's a better way. Other than that, it's rather ridiculous. Ancestry adds censuses all the time, too. So hopefully soon they'll have an index for 1900 complete.

[Palaab]

You know... One thing I've found is there were a lot of Allen's in Michigan in the late 1800's and early 1900's listed as servants!