[raduga]

Does anybody know anything about those companies that claim to be able to test your DNA and tell you if you had any Native, African, or Asian ancestors? My mom, who was adopted, got this test done last summer and we were confused about the results. According to them, she could be anywhere from 16% to 49% Native. That seems like a pretty big margin to me. And I don't even know how accurate it is... Has anyone else out there tried a DNA test? Before the test, we'd thought my mom might be half Native.
-raduga

[raduga]

I guess my question was a little strange. It sounds like most Native people either always knew they were Native, or else found out about their heritage from the adoption paperwork. My mother is mixed, but looks like a Native American. Her a-parents aren't Native, but they have dark hair, so they just passed her off as their own. After she found out she was adopted 2 yrs ago, it all made sense - her diff. appearance, the way they treated her, racial slurs, etc.
-raduga

[NDN]

In my opinion those tests are worthless. Some members of our family had testing done and they claimed negative for Native ancestry. This is impossible, because we know historically and culturally that we belonged to the Cherokee Nation that was removed to Oklahoma. Our family is even on the roll.

After getting such rediculous results, I asked for the information on the test. After researching documents provided the company, I found some interesting "fine print."

These DNA tests are done using what they call haplogroups, which looks for certain traits that they attribute to specific geographic locations at a given time. Because the nations of the world have been mixing for so long, this theory is questionable at best.

In any event, they claimed to only be able to verify the ancestry of the same-sex ancestor five generations back. For example , my grandfather's gf- for 5 generations back. The test is only good for that individual. If anyone else, his wife-for example, is Native, it won't show up of the test.

So basically, you are only getting information for one individual, five generations removed, in your family. These tests cannot be used to prove descent for the purposes of membership in a federally recognized tribe.

Is is worth it to spend the money to satisfy curiosity about the ancestry of one individual so far removed? That is up to each person.

[raduga]

I'm inclined to agree that the test isn't too reliable. But I think the test we got was a bit different than the one you are talking about. For one thing, the test we had isn't connected with only male or only female ancestors, because it wasn't an mtDNA or Y-chromosome test (we've read about those, but decided on a different test). In any case, my mother is relieved to have gotten the test, because her a-family has been extremely hostile and deceitful and manipulative. With even the tiniest amount of Native heritage shown in the test results, we can automatically dismiss their horrible claims and harassment.

[NDN]

I think that I have an idea of the type of test that you are talking about.

I spoke with one woman whose family is from a reservation that is on both sides of the Canadian/US border. Both sides of her family have been there since its formation, and have never intermarried with Europeans. However, for some reason, her mother's family were not registered members of the tribe--I think they were relocted there after the roll closing.

She thought that a DNA test that gave percentages would help her establish to the tribe that they should recognize that side of her family (although these test are not valid for this purpose). However the test cam back saying that she was 1/8 to 1/2 Native and the rest European. Despite the range of the degrees, it is a pretty incredible to be 1/2 or more European when all of the extensive geneological information that the family has reveals that there were no European intermarriages.

[raduga]

That's pretty discouraging. But if someone has such extensive genealogical information pointing to 100% Native ancestry, you would think that the tribe would recognize her on that basis. I really don't understand why the rolls must figure so prominently in determining tribal membership. Weren't the rolls a project of the U.S. government, rather than the tribes themselves?

As for the DNA tests, I'm now inclined to think that they are more of commercial than scientific value. But even so, for my mother it was worth the investment, because we have no other source of information.

-raduga

[sharness]

Yes, what these tests do is test the mitochondrial DNA. That means, if the land bridge idea is correct, or any intermixing with the earliest migrations of Europeans it will show up in the test. And it doesn't just test your "line", it's everyone who has ever fed into your "line". Therefore, these tests can indicate that you have Asian or European blood. Think of it - if you come from an Aleut family, intermixing could have occurred between villages throughout that arctic region so that the person could reasonably show some relationship to Lapplanders. I don't believe these tests are a reliable measure.

Susan

[NDN]

Originally Posted by raduga

I really don't understand why the rolls must figure so prominently in determining tribal membership. Weren't the rolls a project of the U.S. government, rather than the tribes themselves?

-raduga

The rolls were conducted by the government. But you have to realize that the purpose of assigning a blood quantum was to eventually eliminate Native peoples--after you get below X%, you aren't Indian anymore (some tribes still have a 1/4 rule). To jumpstart the process, the government set VERY specific guidelines about who could be on the roll. If you moved off of the reservation at ANY point during the enrollment process--usually lasting a span of years--your number was striken from the rolls.

This happened to my grandfather. His brother is on the roll from Oklahoma. However, he moved to Texas for a short time before the roll was closed and (according to the government) therefore forfeited his rights to enrollment. Even though the brother is on the roll--our family is not eligible because our DIRECT descendent is not.

In order to be recognized as a Native by the federal government, you must be a DIRECT descendent of an enrolled member of a federally recognized tribe.

[roxanna425]

the rolls are the province of the tribes because as a sovreign nation the TRIBE gets to determine who is eligible for enrollment. nowadays in order to be recognized as a member of a tribe you have to be accepted as such byt the individual tribe. in some tribes it's 1/4, others 1/16, then there's tribes where you ahve to trace your geneology to the original enrollment rolls. to determine whether you are a member of a tribe AND GET BENEFITS AS SUCH you have to contact the tribes goverment and find out what the reqs are. first you have to narrow down the tribe. otherwise you can be an "unenrolled" member of a specific tribe.

why doesn't your mother get a geneology specialist to trace her bio parents geneology?

[NDN]

Originally Posted by roxanna425

the rolls are the province of the tribes because as a sovreign nation the TRIBE gets to determine who is eligible for enrollment. nowadays in order to be recognized as a member of a tribe you have to be accepted as such byt the individual tribe. in some tribes it's 1/4, others 1/16, then there's tribes where you ahve to trace your geneology to the original enrollment rolls. to determine whether you are a member of a tribe AND GET BENEFITS AS SUCH you have to contact the tribes goverment and find out what the reqs are. first you have to narrow down the tribe. otherwise you can be an "unenrolled" member of a specific tribe.

why doesn't your mother get a geneology specialist to trace her bio parents geneology?

While we are soveriegn nations, we are still subject to the BIA (in the US at least--I don't know anything about Canada). For MEMBERSHIP purposes, each tribe sets the qualification. However for CDIB (Certificate of Degree of Indian Blood) you must link to an enrollee. This is a federal guidline in order to be recognized as Indian by the federal government, and by extension to belong to a federally recognized tribe. This will not apply to non-recognized groups. The blood quantum requirement for some groups is in addition to the geneological link to the original enrollee.

I do agree with the geneology suggestion. The DNA tests are not, at this point, being allowed as evidence for admission into any tribe.

Even if you are never able to enroll, if you can find the nation you can participate in cultural activities.

[raduga]

Extremely limited options are among the reasons we chose the DNA test. Unfortunately, I don't think there's much a geneology specialist could do to help us. We have no names to trace. We don't even know what year or what state my mom was born in. And there are no files waiting to be opened, because the "adoption" was never formalized legally. But thanks for the suggestion just the same.
-raduga