[kretzklan]

I need to add more...

Here is a sampling of what adoptive parents going to Russia complete:
*homestudy (multiple visits in your home...in-depth interviews...family background...etc.)
*doctor evaluations (physicals...mental health...up to EIGHT separate docs...these must be updated every 3 months)
*A dossier for Russia is NOT variable state-by-state. It can be different depending on the Russian region you adopt from...but every dossier is approximately 150 sheets of paper...notarized and apostiled: including - employment letters, insurance letters, doctors licenses, fingerprinting - local, state and federal, background checks, proof of residency - I could go on and on...
*TWO or THREE trips to Russia...lasting from one week to five weeks. You meet your referal and then you LEAVE them in Russia while more paperwork in completed. Although the time between trips should be around 6 weeks...for many it has been over 8 months. They met a child...hugged them...shared time with them...left them and CAN NOT get back to them...because of the politics. Someone on here mentioned how the corrupt politics of both Russia and the US are to blame for Masha...well, is it not time to lay blame for children sitting in orphanages who know they have a family waiting for them and they can't GET OUT???
*As the wait continues...paperwork and fingerprints expire...and must be re-done - time and time again...

I am forgetting more than half of this...because once they are home...you are just so pleased! But, it's not done...once home you do post-placement reports...both for your state and the Russian government. You do them because it's part of the package and because you want to help those other kids get home to their families.
You complete requirements in the US...passports, social security cards, certificates of citizenship, re-adoptions, validations.....

[Kippa Herring]

[quote=kretzklan] I'm really trying to control myself right now. But, threads like this are exactly the way that mis-information gets spread...beyond the media...and I could go on and on about the media in general. The bottom line here is that this situation with Masha is a travesty - on all levels...but to make a sweeping comment or comments about an entire sector of adoption (international) is ignorant at best. There is a strict accrediation process for agencies in Russia now. In fact, they are not allowing independent adoptions any longer. If a post-placement report is missed (ONE MISSING REPORT for a whole agency...that agency can and will lose their re-accrediation). As someone who just returned home with our two children from Russia and someone very involved in that particular sector of adoption...I am bothered that this thread is making it sound as though all parents adopting from Russia (or internationally in general) are "cheating the system" in some way. Celtia made a valid point...we jump through a million hoops for both the US and the Russian government. Yes, it's the right thing - we don't expect to have a child handed to us...but we do the work and our agencies do the work.
This man who adopted Masha - broke a lot of rules...so did his agency and social worker.[/QOUTE]



The point is that there were loopholes and flaws in the system that allowed this to happen.
I think you are being a tad oversensitive. This is not about you. If you think that that "this thread is making all parents adopting from Russia look as if they are cheating the system" you are quite wrong.

[Kippa Herring]

Originally Posted by BrandyHagz

Folks, while I appreciate the fact that there is a lot of news going on regarding an organization here in the US in regards to International Adoption – our Agency Discussion Guideline clearly prohibits the discussion of agencies by name, even if they are the subject of many news reports.

Point taken.
Will you please direct me to the Agency Discussion Guideline.

[crick]

Kippa - go to the top of the Russian Forum and you'll see threads titled "Announcements"....click on the one that says "New policy to be effective Immediately"

[Kippa Herring]

Originally Posted by crick

Kippa - go to the top of the Russian Forum and you'll see threads titled "Announcements"....click on the one that says "New policy to be effective Immediately"

Thanks, Crick.

[Kippa Herring]

Originally Posted by lovestruck

I don't think that kretz and I or any one else who will write from Russia are being oversensitive at all. Yes this man got through the system....one man out of thousands and thousands of others who have adopted......and saying that things wouldn't have been tightened if this had not been out in the media is crazy, things have been tightened long ago. They didn't just start with the dateline story or when the news first broke.

Masha's case is a travesty, but PLEASE do not make it about the entire system in the US or Russia that you know nothing about except what you've heard from the media who is also incorrect. They should do their homework before being allowed to report info, but we all know that doesn't always happen. Keep it about this man who is evil and where his case failed!!! Inaccurate information is being spread and that needs to be stopped.

Masha's story is not a travesty (by any definition).
It is, however, a tragedy.
There have been plenty of suspicious cases other than Masha's that have recieved media attention. It doesn't mean that the majority of Russian adoptions are illegal.

Do you think that the report about child trafficking in Adoption News is also incorrect?

[lovestruck]

[quote=Kippa HerringThe point is that there were loopholes and flaws in the system that allowed this to happen.
I think you are being a tad oversensitive. This is not about you. If you think that that "this thread is making all parents adopting from Russia look as if they are cheating the system" you are quite wrong.[/QUOTE]

No it's not making it look like all of us adopting from Russia are trying to cheat the system. This thread and the media are making it sound like Masha's adoption is the rule rather than the exception and that is simply not the case. Yes it did happen and it is tragic that it did. People were not doing there jobs, but please remember, this is the exception, not the rule!! You can find evil and suspicion everywhere in almost every aspect of life and no I know this is not the only questionable situation in Russia. I was incorrect when saying out of thousands and thousands of adoption there is only this one case that this has happened, I was simply trying to make the point that there are thousands of adoptions that were done the way they were suppose to for every one that was not. The exception rather than the rule.

[calikismet]

Now that I have some time at home, I wanted to take a moment to comment on the transcript from Maureen Flattery regarding her comments on the regulation of adoptions from Russia.

International adoption has 3 prongs, generally (I'll use Russia as the example, since I am intimately familiar with that system). First and foremost is the Russian govt. The reality is that Russia does not allow adoptions via any agency that is not accreditd by the Russian govt. Yes, the reality is that independent adoptions using facilitators was allowed up until about a year ago; and yes, they had less supervision b/c an agency was not involved. I think that the great great majority of us in Russian adoption agree with the move to eliminate or restrict the ability to adopt independently, primarily b.c of the lack of supervision and pre and post adoption counselling. The Russian govt has cracked down on the agencies in the last 12 months or so, and many many agencies await reaccreditation before they can move any further. The Russian govt does not care what state you live in -- the only thing they care about is that we are from the US. The requirements for the dossier vary from region to region, but it is becomming more standard.

Second is the US govt. The simple reality is that immigration (i.e. the law that is implicated as a result of needing to bring the newly-adopted child back to the US) is a FEDERAL law, not a state one. Thus, the regs and requirements are identical from state to state. Plain and simple.

The third entity, the state, is only involved if families choose to readopt. Many do for ease of documents (state-issued BC, etc).

I do take exception to the statement that international adoption regs vary from state to state. As you can see above, that is simply impossible. No state can change or otherwise dictate the reqts of international adoption. In fact, the states have almost zero involvement in it. So I think she was inaccurate in this statement.

I agree with all of the posters that state that the Masha thing was a tragedy. The simple truth is that the systen failed her. The Russian govt allowed her adoption to a man with questionable issues. Some agency and/or homestudy agency/ service failed her in not doing sufficient pre and post placement checking. None of us who have adopted from Russia will disagree that we hate to see this happen -- for her sake, and yes, selfishly, for ours. The bad cases have taken the headlines... but behind those headlines are tens, if not hundreds, of thousands of amazing and happy and perfect endings, with loving, well-adjusted families.

I would encourage anyone who wants to make statements against Russian adoption and the system as a whole to really look at each part. No system is 100% perfect -- but neither is it 100% faulty. Yes, we all encourage changes that protect the kids - but we do not encourage knee-jerk and over-reaching changes that ultimately may look much better on paper than in practice. Families go thru SOO much to adopt overseas - Kretz above intimated to just a tiny portion of it. Adoption anywhere (including in the good ol' USA) is tough..

Lets' just try to remember that there are so many different options in adoption today -- and I think it is not useful or advantageous to create an "us/ them" mentality of the domestic adopters vs. the international ones. I would encourage educated posts, that, yes, may include conviction and opinion.

[Kippa Herring]

Originally Posted by lovestruck

No it's not making it look like all of us adopting from Russia are trying to cheat the system. This thread and the media are making it sound like Masha's adoption is the rule rather than the exception and that is simply not the case. Yes it did happen and it is tragic that it did. People were not doing there jobs, but please remember, this is the exception, not the rule!!

One 'exception' is too many. Anyway, there have been more than one.
I'm not against adoption from Russia. I know the orphanages are hell-holes, and that the majority of the children in them have no family to speak of. Masha herself has said that she wouldn't want U.S adoption from Russia to end.
But I do think that, maybe particularly because they come from such a dire situation, we owe it to these children to do everything in our power to prevent them from falling into the hands of pervs or unstable people.
And if that means tightening up the system even more, so be it.

[calikismet]

Kippa -- I am not disgareeing with you. I do have a question, tho -- do you have the same conviction about the US foster system? I know that many of the headlines on Adoption. com have focused on the death/ abuse of children who have been in the US foster system. I would hope that the conviction to protect Russian children also extends to the US system. I suspect that you do have that feeling, as an obvious advocate for the children (and I mean that in the best of ways).

FWIW, I personally have no problem, per se, with the coverage of the issues with the Russian adoptees. But unfortunately, the media has a goal of both educating the public AND making money - and in order to sell the story, it has to be sensational. That leads to discussion like the one from Maureen that begins to generalize the entire system -- i.e. it is all bad, nothing is good. That is simply and plainly inaccurate. I can attest to that personally, as can 99.9% of the families that have adopted from Russia.

I am afraid that international adoptions is an easy target. Not many know very much about it. I certainly did not until I was neck deep in it. And many in the US foster system hate the fact that Americans go overseas to adopt while we have 150,000 kids in the US foster system (just this weekend I had to defend our decision to go overseas for adoption). I just hate to see it become a target unfairly.

Again, to be clear, I agree that 1 death is too many. And I applaud any actions to prevent that. But let's not cut our proverbial nose off to spite our faces.

[lovestruck]

kippa, I agree 100 percent that we need to do everything possible to prevent children from falling in to the hands of unstable and/or perverts hands. I am not arguing that standards should be high and regulated. I was simply trying to let it be known that we go through a lot to bring our children home because I did not get the impression that that was understood from previous post. I was not making light of what happened and that her father and potential others have fallen through the cracks. It is difficult to hear about the lax laws when you have driven five hours to be fingerprinted so your criminal history can be checked to obtain INS approval and countless other steps that we go through. And yes, I believe those are definitely necessary steps to the process.

[Southernroots]

You know, I just don't get why some adoptive parents get so upset whenever anyone says anything negative about adoption. Adoption is neither all bad or all good. Just because they feel that for THEM it is totally positive, doesn't mean that everyone else has nothing but glowing comments to make about adoption.

To gloss over the Masha issue, try to hush it up so that it doesn't sully the name of adoption is a dangerous precedent in my opinion. We need to address and work on improving problems in adoption as they arise, not pretend they don't exist and aren't important.

And I completely agree that without media attention, we usually stick with the status quo and problems do not get corrected. As I recall, Masha herself said that though she wants to prevent further events such as what happened to her, she is not advocating adoptions being stopped from Russia.

All the measures on earth will not stop bad things happening in adoption, but, that doesn't mean that we give up and don't try our best. Our children deserve our best efforts to protect and safeguard them.

[bromanchik]

Amen, Southernroots, Amen!!!

[Kippa Herring]

Originally Posted by calikismet

Kippa -- I am not disgareeing with you. I do have a question, tho -- do you have the same conviction about the US foster system? I know that many of the headlines on Adoption. com have focused on the death/ abuse of children who have been in the US foster system. I would hope that the conviction to protect Russian children also extends to the US system. I suspect that you do have that feeling, as an obvious advocate for the children (and I mean that in the best of ways).

Absolutely.
But that's not the subject of this particular thread.

Originally Posted by calikismet

FWIW, I personally have no problem, per se, with the coverage of the issues with the Russian adoptees. But unfortunately, the media has a goal of both educating the public AND making money - and in order to sell the story, it has to be sensational. That leads to discussion like the one from Maureen that begins to generalize the entire system -- i.e. it is all bad, nothing is good. That is simply and plainly inaccurate. I can attest to that personally, as can 99.9% of the families that have adopted from Russia.

Masha's story IS sensational, to the extent that it can't be ignored. Stories such as hers are the canaries in the mine-shaft. I think Southernroots said it best: "To gloss over the Masha issue in order not to sully the name of adoption is a dangerous precedent."

Originally Posted by calikismet

I am afraid that international adoptions is an easy target. Not many know very much about it. I certainly did not until I was neck deep in it. And many in the US foster system hate the fact that Americans go overseas to adopt while we have 150,000 kids in the US foster system (just this weekend I had to defend our decision to go overseas for adoption). I just hate to see it become a target unfairly. Again, to be clear, I agree that 1 death is too many. And I applaud any actions to prevent that. But let's not cut our proverbial nose off to spite our faces.

My feeling is that it would be cutting off more noses that just our own if we ignored it. It would mean incalculable and permanent damage.

[Kippa Herring]

Originally Posted by bromanchik

Amen, Southernroots, Amen!!!

I ditto that.