[dpen6]

Dickons,

I firmly believe it never was abou the best interst of the child..

[paigeturner]

Dpen,

I don't believe they were sealed in the interest of the child. I also don't believe they were sealed in the interest of the birth parents. I understand that when there has been state legislative action towards open records the agencies find a birth parent or two to stand up for "privacy" issues. As a birth mother, I cry "BS". Privacy isn't about birth parents nor is it about adoptive parents; IMO if the adoptee wants access to his/her records there should be NO question.

What's amazed me the most from this thread was the definition of a "legal fiction" which are set for "the advancement of justice". Where's the justice here?

[ripples]

Very interesting thread. Has there ever been any research on this topic of 'right-to-privacy vs. right-to-know'? Eg. The historical reasons as to why this practice emerged. What legal challenges have been addressed and upon what grounds/assumptions? What are the risks, pros/cons on all sides - i.e. if identifying documentation is disclosed?

In my opinion, for one, the lack of disclosure is potentially putting adopted people and their offspring at medical risk if life threatening illnesses are not made known (there've been threads on this web site in other forums about the issue of lack of access to medical records).

While I appreciate each of our individual opinions, I'd be interested to hear more about the research that's been done in this area as this appears to boil down to a human rights issue.

However, as is the case with many legal issues - there aren't likely to be any clear cut answers since everyone on all sides of the debate will stand up and claim it's 'their' human rights that are being breached and therefore should be protected first and foremost above anyone else's.

[Dickons]

Ripples,

I did a quick search and stumbled upon the following.

Access News - Issue 51

I also found the letter written by John C. Sonne, M.D. back in 96 to be very valid and well written that brings up even more to think about.

By the way, as to the medical issue...I'm one of those cases and the disease I have may also be the reason my son died...according to my doctor, but yet, until you have issues and many times it is far to late to help with that issue, the courts still get to play that magic trump card of being the ones who get to decide if it is valid enough to break the seal...wonder how they decide like the article Dpen posted ponders on.

Kind regards,
Dickons

[Dickons]

Originally Posted by paigeturner

What's amazed me the most from this thread was the definition of a "legal fiction" which are set for "the advancement of justice". Where's the justice here?

Paige,

Following link will show you a non-adoptive use of 'legal fiction' at it's worst but the article is 30+ pages long but wow...very very scary.

http://www.fear.org/history/Kochan_R...eitureLaws.pdf

I am sure there are many such issues where 'legal fiction' plays a role, in this instance it truly is legal fiction when no charges are laid but assets are kept.

Kind regards,
Dickons

[shadow riderer]

Very interesting stuff. I think about this stuff, and I can't help but wonder why my knowing my birthparents name was such a big deal. My aparents were supportive in my reunions. My Aparents were older when they adopted. When I reunited with Bmom, my Adad told me he was glad. I'll never forget him saying to me, "Now, when your mom and I are gone, you will still have family." My amom told me once that she and my adad had agreed before they ever adopted that if we wanted to know our biology they would accept that and help us. They understood the need for biology, and, heck, they were just as curious to know our biology.

I know not all aparents are like that, but really what would it have hurt for the actual names of my biological parents to be available to my Aparents to share with me when I was old enough to understand. I mean, if all Aparents went into adoption understanding that adopting a child would include the knowledge that the child would someday have to be told who the BPs were, maybe there would be a few less adoptees finding out they were adopteed later in life, etc. Maybe there would be a few less adoptees dealing with identity issues. Maybe some AParents would think about their decision to adopte alot more before doing it. If there were not secrets, how much stress and anxiety would be taken away from all involved.

You know, my Bmom never even knew for sure I had been placed. Even though things haven't worked out between she and I, I know that was always a concern and worry for her. Can you imagine the difference it could have made in her life if she had just known that, I, had indeed benn placed with parents.

It's not like everyone didn't know I was adopted. It wasn't a secret in my adoptive family. I always knew I had two mothers; one who gave birth to me, and one who was "Mommy". It's also not like my Bmmom didn't know she had given birth to me. She might have been able to put it out of her mind, but she knew she had a child. My Bdad too, though he didn't know his child was a daughter, he knew he had helped in creating a child. I don't want to cross a line here, but I would imagine, that even though they (Bmom) were told all that stuff BPs were told, wouldn't it always be in the back of their minds that someday the relinquished child might possibly find them? There isn't a doubt in my mind both my BPs, though surprised, were most definitely not that shocked that I found them. Heck, even my Bdad, whom my Bmom hadn't told about my actual birth, wasn't THAT surprised to find out he had a daughter.

So here we all were, my Aparents, my Bparents, and me all living with this big secret that someone said was in all our best interest. I have a news flash for those, who made that decision that records must be sealed for "privacy". AS an adoptee with heredityary medical issues, thanks a lot for nothing! Sheesh, seriously, how much more could we all, meaning me and my adoption situation, be screwed up by just knowing the truth about who we all were. I just don't get why it had to be such a big freakin secret. In the end the truth came out anyway for all of us. We are all still alive, a little more battered for it, but we will get through and go on. Maybe I'm just clueless, but I think if those records had never been sealed, we would "all" have been much, much better off. WE didn't need the privacy. We needed the knowledge and the peace of mind.

Dang, Dpen, I think you triggered something in me. lolSealed records just stink. They stunk in 65 and they stink now. I gotta go calm down. Thanks for posting this.

[bakerjw]

Yes, sealed records do suck. I am starting the battle to get mine open and and already frustrated and bitter about the whole process.

All of our situations are a bit different but we're all mostly in the same boat and it would be nice to be able to tie up some of the loose ends in our lives.

[dpen6]

There YA GO shadow!1

Now let us know you you reallllllllly feel! LOL

I hear ya loud and clear....I think the trigering comes from the fact that for most of lives we have "understood" the societal reason to keep us where it was felt we should be...but as adults our eyes open and its like HUH???? I do understand that way back then the stigma of being an unwed mother and an illegitmate child was the purpose for sealing records, I also understand that itwas felt AT that time that the aparents should't have any interfernce and should be able to parents "As if they wereborn to you" I do understand it was supposedly for the best interst of everyone invovled...so as a result I grew up beleiving it to be true. That I was illegiamte...there needed protection, I needed to be "just as if" and my bfamily didn't matter. That worked until my mid to late 20's when I started having my own children.

Then the reality set in a gradually the whole sealed records thing is nothing short of absurd. the only time I see it as approariate in todays world is if their is a danger to the child...but that child should have total access when they become an adult.

[shadow riderer]

DPen, exactly.

...and one more thing, while I'm on a role...
The ironic thing in ref to the whole illiget thing? I was looked down on for that even thogh I was adopted. It seemed to me people just assumed that if you were adopted, well, you must be one of those, uhm, words that start with a B that I wont type, children, whether you were or not.

The whole thing is just stupid...uhm... to be blunt.

I know it's not really just that simple, but every child has a right to know the names of their bio parents at some point in their life. I don't care who you are. I wont even attempt to get into the medical issues. O.K. I gotta stop before I type something that might offend someone.

DPen, you ready to march on Washington D.C. yet. I'm right there with ya! Let's go! We could storm the place....Ooops, I was born in the 60's. I forget sometimes I wasn't really there. lol Ha, what about a sit in at the senate house? I know I'm being silly now, but if I were twenty years younger?

I'm getting tickeled here...wonder what my bio parents were smoking when, well, you knoww, that makes me like this? lol I'd ask them, if they would talk to me about all this adoption stuff, but they don't seem to understand, it isn't a secret anymore, and it's O.K.

...dang sealed records! Oh, boy, did you ever hit a nerve, Dpen. lol O.K. I feel better now. lol

[paigeturner]

Bastard Nation is planning a protest for open records in Philly during the NCSL meetings in July. They will also have a booth set up in the exhibition hall. I can't remember the details, but it should be on their website. I'll be there. Not for BN, but for my job. Let me know if you're going and I'll buy you a cold beverage.

[shadow riderer]

Hey Paige, not sure if your post was directed at me. JIC, I wont be there, but if I were, I'd take you up on that.

I've been thinking a lot about what I could do to help in this whole sealed record thing. I'm not anti adoption, just hate the whole sealed record thing.

[dpen6]

Hey paige,

Thanks for the offer of a cold beverage!!! Wish I had the freedom to storm washington and hit Philly but I don't!
I habe written a few letters.

If your ever in the Boston area, let me know