[debsdone]

Sorry, but the only person who knows MY truth is ME. Anyone who claims to have MY answer is trying too hard to validate something, but it doesn't have anything to do with ME. And therefore, I resent it. LC, you gave a GREAT analogy! Debi

You know if I as an adoptee had not been seperated from my birthmom I may not have felt the
'wound" or "Loss". of that seperation....but the "wounds" and losses would have manifested in different ways.....I would not have recieved the unconditional love, sercurity, and constistency that I recieved from my aparents. My birthmom was unable to provide any of that to me.....what is more important?

Donna

[Unidentified]

I'm sorry if you feel threatened or insulted by my declaration that any infant separated from its natural mother early in life suffers a tremendous loss. I agee that the word loss serves just as well as the words wound hurt or pain

How each individual who experiences that loss early in his or her life and deals with it is harder to defne and is perhaps unique to each individual. You have your path and I have mine.
I wish you all the best
Respectfully
Marijke

[debsdone]

I think you will find that individual paths are quite respected and embraced here on these boards. While blanket statements and declarations of "all"...are not appreciated. (by some, lol) Debi

unidentified, nobody is feeling "threatened". The point to be made is that one should not say that "any"infant suffers a tremondous loss being seperated from mother, when staying with mother can be more harmful,as was my case and many others. The insult occurs when people have made opionions about other peoples realities and proclaim it as "truth for everyone". Far to many situations and personalities to proclaim someone being threatened by SOME ELSES TRUTH.

I feel many people have an attitude that we must feel this or that when many of us understand OUR OWN REALITY! It it does not conform to what is "theorized" about us. I think many people who do project these theories on us do it to make them selves feel better.....

[lemonchutney]

I'm sorry if you feel threatened or insulted by my declaration that any infant adopted by loving aparents early in life has been given a tremendous gift. I agee that the word gift serves just as well as the words joy, love, comfort, or security.

How each individual who experiences that gift early in his or her life and deals with it is harder to define and is perhaps unique to each individual. You have your path and I have mine.
I wish you all the best.
Respectfully,
LC

[banjo]

I'm now trying to look at the history of loss, and rejection in my life. I'm working on those issues in a holistic way rather than simply focusing on just the loss through adoption. After talking to other people in the adoption triangle there are often a lot of instances of loss and rejection and abandonment in their lives - often starting with adoption then through death of a loved one. rejection/s by a boyfriend/s, feeling of rejection by society, loss of jobs, friends etc. And then it is interesting to see how some people handle it compared to others.

[Blue Irish Eyes]

Banjo,

I think you have an interesting idea going here. The first rejection is at birth. Maybe rejection is too strong a word in some cases but in MY case that is what it was. That is thr first experience with rejection. It is curious how it registers in our little infantile minds but some how it does.

My mom would always tell me I was too sensitive...my dad would say high strung...it is sort of like having had this big earthquake in my new life and forever more in some areas of life being unsure of things, or more perdisposed to be prepared for the worst, if this makes any sense.

It is an interesting concept, and I have no idea how a study could be done on it except by way of the psychologists and shrinks, to discover how much and in what ways loss be it a job, friend deaths etc...how we may respond, the amount of confusion and how the grief process progresses for adoptees and perhaps birthparents too, as opposed to the intact families.

[Shoshana]

and this is the hypothesis:

"ANY infant separated physically or emotionally from her fisrt mother is HURT by that experience Just how the hurt manifests and how it is experienced by the child as she grows depends on a myriad of additional factors"

the further theoretical statements and relational propositions amongst the theoretical constructs comprise the theory.

the problem is that this theory has no empirical support. the first step would be to operationally define the terms or constructs. can you imagine trying to operationally define "primal wound"? the theory itself (much like Sigmund Freud's) precludes empirical validation.

In fact, even a cursory analysis reveals that this theory violates a number of the formal scientific criteria for theory evaluation: namely, empirical validity (none), comrehensiveness (it has this!), parisimony (no, it is lacking in simplicity), coherence (unlikely), acceptability (not given these debates), testability (no), usefulness (for some).

Oh, and, Lemon, when a theory is so broad or general that anyone can find 'truth' in it (like Astrology), it is called the Barnum Effect.

[lemonchutney]

Great post! Thank you for joining the discussion and for teaching us.

I looked it up:

Barnum Effect : is a term that is used in psychology. It is the tendency for people to accept very general or vague characterizations of themselves and take them to be accurate. A good example of this can be seen when people believe what is said about them in psychometric tests, personality profiles, astrological predictions, and so on. This phenomenon is named after P. T. Barnum, who believed that a good circus had "a little something for everybody." Even though the descriptions or descriptive terms used in the inventories, typologies, and tests can apply equally well to other people, some individuals are gullible enough to believe they are unique to themselves. Of course, this is exactly what happens with the horoscope, palm reading, and crystal ball gazing (Referring to the comments of P.T. Barnum, 1810-1891, American showman, about public gullibility).

By the way, P.T. Barnum famously said "There's a sucker born every minute."

[lemonchutney]

Disclaimer: Don't read this unless you enjoy dark humor.

THE PAINFUL REALITY OF THE PRIMAL PAPERCUT
by Dr. Leera Lip****z

There is a terrible affliction that is striking terror into the lives of us all, and turning otherwise law-abiding, mild mannered adoptees into RAGING KILLERS and crashing bores at parties. I speak, of course, of the dreaded "Primal Paper Cut". Since I am a therapist who works with Triads (no, NOT Triffids - that was a ‘50’s Sci-Fi movie!) and my case load was dwindling due to the fact that my words of wisdom put everyone to sleep - it was a great good fortune to my bankroll (uh, I mean to The World) that I was the first to discover this awful syndrome. And I am the only one who can treat it! (Cash, certified checks, and credit cards accepted).

....

Continued here: http://www.bastards.org/bq/bq7/dast1.htm

[Shoshana]

LOL!

[Towelie]

Hilarious.

Still think there's something in it.

[debsdone]

LMAO!!!!! Ain't it the truth! Love, Debi

[karbrown77]

"THE PAINFUL REALITY OF THE PRIMAL PAPERCUT"

How sad to laugh at those that are in pain and trying to discover how to heal such pain.

I like to laugh at myself it keeps me in check. However, to laugh at anothers pain and groping in the dark for answers is sad. People much of the time laugh at what they can or will not understand.

"Fuinny" how so many of us have found solace and understanding in this book. I like a good laugh I am known for my sense of humor. Angst, depression, and pain to me howver, is not funny at all.