[Dickons]

Originally Posted by bjc76

Dickons... you said, "Me, in my reality as a child, believed I was fatally flawed in a way I could not see but others could...."

That really struck me. My bdaughter was born with the genetic illness - cystic fibrosis. Unfortunately, chance struck and the biological father and I were both carriers. This has been something that has been brought up, by her, to her mom. She has wondered if THAT is the reason I placed her for adoption and didn't "want her." Of course, that isn't anywhere close to the reason, as we didn't even know she had the illness until she was about 2 years old. But it made me stop and pause when you said that you believed you were flawed. It's heartbreaking to hear that any child would think that way...

thank you for sharing that piece of yourself.

BJC76,
As a child I could understand the logical reason I was given up, single unmarried during a period of time when it was not acceptable but....as a child I also felt that I had to be fatally flawed or they would have kept me anyway...looking back it seems silly to my adult mind but it was my reality, and somehow that child's thought has lingered in my heart with most of my relationships...waiting...coming forward when my own self respect is at it's lowest...am I really flawed and cannot see it? It's a very hard topic to discuss but I would expect other adoptees have felt or feel that way at times (not all adoptees). If I had not had the parents I did, I am sure I would have had a tougher time in this world we live in than I have had.

It sounds like your daughter just wants to meet you...at this point I doubt she wants more than that, to start with anyway (giving you time to heal yourself)...really just to know you do love her and to know more about herself. As your daughter has a genetic illness, it may add to her pain and insecurity and may be part of the reason she needs to know you. Go to the meeting in January with the knowledge that you are helping her more than you can ever imagine, and do it with the grace and dignity both of you deserve. It will be okay.

Kind regards,
Dickons

[c.a]

BJC76:

As I read through this thread, I am truly amazed at your effort to respond to posts honestly and respectfully. Even though you are hurting, you are actively listening to other posts, even those that are critical. You have been gracious, firm and gentle when you have disagreed.

I don't have any advice. I just want to let you know that I am admiring your effort in this thread. You clearly have the ability to empathize and hear the hurt of others even when you are hurting yourself. When the time is right, those skills will help you, your daughter, and her adoptive family get through this transition.

You will be in my thoughts during this holiday season. I wish you peace as you work through this difficult time.

[escottswanson]

Originally Posted by dpen6

Scott,

I heard your song, saw the pictures of your bmom and thought it was all beutiful. i underestand your sense of gratitude and respect it.

There are some adoptees that don't have gratitude and with good reason, thats needs to be respected also.

Personaly, I am very grateful for how my life turned out ...but I am came to that myself Not because others told me I should feel that way.

It must have been such a shock to find out she had died. So you do have some contact with some of your biofamily?

yes it was a shock, and especially to find that I started searching and wrote that song about her the same year that she died (1995). I did find my brother (who was 15 when she died) and I met him for the first time last february. It was like we never didn't know each other, and it really helped me find some connection to her. We've stayed in touch and have a really good relationship, so I have to say that as bittersweet as the whole thing was, I am still very happy to know my brother (we were both only children). I have a few uncles and aunts out there too, some want to know me and some don't but at least I know the truth

[escottswanson]

Originally Posted by bjc76

Scott – thank you. Your page…wow. You made me think… a lot.

You are welcome

[RavenSong]

Originally Posted by Dickons

As a child I could understand the logical reason I was given up, single unmarried during a period of time when it was not acceptable but....as a child I also felt that I had to be fatally flawed or they would have kept me anyway...looking back it seems silly to my adult mind but it was my reality, and somehow that child's thought has lingered in my heart with most of my relationships...waiting...coming forward when my own self respect is at it's lowest...am I really flawed and cannot see it?

Dickons, I totally get what you're saying about feeling flawed as a child. My son has told me the same thing, almost in the same exact words you've written. I have a feeling that a lot of adopted children may feel this way deep down inside.

That's one of the reasons I wish that my son and I had been allowed face-to-face contact when he was younger. (His parents feel the same way.) Even though I wrote him many letters between the ages of 14 and 18, it wasn't until he really got to know me on a personal, face-to-face basis that he started believing that he hadn't been relinquished because he was "flawed".

[dpen6]

Originally Posted by RavenSong

Dickons, I totally get what you're saying about feeling flawed as a child. My son has told me the same thing, almost in the same exact words you've written. I have a feeling that a lot of adopted children may feel this way deep down inside.

That's one of the reasons I wish that my son and I had been allowed face-to-face contact when he was younger. (His parents feel the same way.) Even though I wrote him many letters between the ages of 14 and 18, it wasn't until he really got to know me on a personal, face-to-face basis that he started believing that he hadn't been relinquished because he was "flawed".

You know I think I have to agree, but I think its a feeling that is very deep and very persistant. i don't think it is something that can just be talked away. Like Dickons said logically you can understand as an adult, a childs mind sees it quite differently. Those feelings attained in childhood do come with us into adulthood. Even though we become quite adept at pushing further and further down. With it comes confusion as really we know we are loved by our parents but..... we were not quite good enough. If you asked me this 3 years ago I would have vehemtly disagreed.

Even with understanding all of that I don't feel anger or bitterness regarding my adoption. I have come to reaize I do feel sad it had to happen. I feel sad that my bmom had to go through what she did but I feel glad I had the mom that I did!...crazy huh?

[RavenSong]

Originally Posted by dpen6

You know I think I have to agree, but I think its a feeling that is very deep and very persistant. i don't think it is something that can just be talked away. Like Dickons said logically you can understand as an adult, a childs mind sees it quite differently. Those feelings attained in childhood do come with us into adulthood. Even though we become quite adept at pushing further and further down. With it comes confusion as really we know we are loved by our parents but..... we were not quite good enough. If you asked me this 3 years ago I would have vehemtly disagreed.

Donna, I totally agree with you. I think it is a very deep, persistent feeling. And, no, I don't think it can just be talked away. That's why I wish my son could have known me face-to-face when he was younger. When I was only allowed to write him letters, all I had were words with which to reassure him, to tell him how much he was wanted when I carried him. And I knew the words were not enough...

It was only by getting to know me personally, on a regular (weekly) face-to-face basis, that he started trusting me and believing me when I told him I loved him. It wasn't by me saying certain words that he began to heal from this feeling of being flawed. It started happening when he became an everyday part of my life, and I in his. I think he started believing me from my actions, not my words. Does that make any sense, lol? And it certainly wasn't a spontaneous thing, either. It took time and patience and always leaving that door open.

You know, Donna, I don't know if my son totally healed from that feeling or not. I know that he knows in his heart of hearts that I love him. But I don't know if all of his "adoption-related" issues are entirely gone. I know that reading The Primal Wound scared the heck out of me. And I pray to God he's not dealing with a lot of things in that book. I'm afraid to bring it up to him, for some reason.

I think I'm afraid that I'll trigger one of those issues in him if I bring it up. I've told him many times in past years that if he ever wants to talk with me about anything surrounding his relinquishment and adoption, to please not hesitate. I guess I'm afraid of making a problem where there is none. Or I'm afraid of invading his private thoughts and emotions. Or maybe I'm just a chicken, and don't want to rock the boat...

We've been in reunion for so long now that we very rarely talk about the subject of his adoption. It's just a given fact of life these days. And things are so much easier than they were in the early years. DS seems to feel pretty secure with who all of us are and what roles we each have in his life.

Originally Posted by dpen6

Even with understanding all of that I don't feel anger or bitterness regarding my adoption. I have come to reaize I do feel sad it had to happen. I feel sad that my bmom had to go through what she did but I feel glad I had the mom that I did!...crazy huh?

LOL, Donna, I don't think that sounds crazy at all...it sounds human! How could you not feel glad you had the mom you had? She was your mom, and she was a good mom at that! And how could you not help feeling some sadness for your bmom? You have a big heart, and she brought you into this world; of course, you're going to feel some sadness for her and for the infant you were. You went through a lot of very rapid changes as soon as you came into this world. But you did good, Donna...you did good.

[bjc76]

Hey everyone...

Hopefully, all of you know by now that my visit is set for January. I find myself getting more excited rather than anxious as the time goes by and I believe I have you all to thank for that. So - thank you for everything.

I have one question in regards to a Christmas present and maybe as children of adoption you can tell me if this would have been something that YOU would have liked or would like. While I was pregnant, I kept a diary and basically wrote the entire thing TO her. It talks about my pregnancy, why I'm doing what I'm doing, meeting her parents...everything except about the manner of her conception. I have been holding on to this for almost 14 years unable to decide if I would ever give it to her. Of course I would send it to her parents first and let them decide, but would that be appropriate? Is that something she should have or not? I don't want to cross any lines/boundaries or completely mess up.

Thanks again

[Dickons]

I think any adoptee would love to have a journal written to them by their birth mother...but am not sure Christmas is the time to give it to your daughter...I don't know, I could be wrong...perhaps after meeting...I do think the amom should read it and be free to tell you when it should be given and you should follow that advice. It may really help your daughter especially as she has CF.

Follow your heart.

Kind regards,
Dickons

[zxczxcasdasd]

I think it's a lovely thing you did, but I don't think it's a Christmas gift. I think it's something you can talk to her mom about, and if you have her blessing, save it for your meeting.

I'll be hoping all goes well!

[dpen6]

I would hold off on the journal. I think as an older young adult it can be processed better. I understand, where she is 14, why others would want her mom to see it but i honestly beleive that it is something between the bmom and adoptee. I know my answer was not much help for the here and now but I can't imagine how you have poured your feelings and most innermost thoughts out in this journal that you would want anyone else but her seeing it. Maybe you need to get to know her better and see if it is something she could appreciate and handle at 14.

[dpen6]

Raven,

Thank you for such a nice reply!

[RavenSong]

Personally, I would hold off on giving your daughter the journal you wrote for her while you were pregnant. If it was me, I think I'd wait until she was in her young 20's, maybe around the time she's thinking about having her own babies.

Fourteen is such a hard age anyway...gosh, do you remember all the conflicting emotions that flooded your very being when you were that age? Hormones are beginning to rage; you want to be an adult one minute, and a little kid the next minute. It's an age I would never want to be again, that's for sure.

When I was 32, I was asked to clean out my late grandmother's home, shortly after she died. I found my mother's diary, the one she had kept all through her teenage years, up until she got pregnant with me at age 16. I read that diary, and I'm really glad I did...I was able to get a rare glimpse into the heart of my mother, whom she had been as a youngster, how she felt about life, school, parents, my dad, how she felt in the early months of her pregnancy. I don't think I would have had the same appreciation of her diary and thoughts, though, if I had read it when I was a teenager. It would have been a little too much to absorb, I think.

I'm not sure what the "right" age will be for your daughter. I just think you should hold off for now...

Something that I do think would be fantastic for her at this age is a photograph album of you. Pictures of yourself as a baby, toddler, young child, preadolescent, teenager, adult. Photos of your parents and siblings would be nice too.

When my son was 14, that's what he wanted the most from me, and that's what he asked his parents to get for him: photographs of me. He especially wanted photos of me as a teenager and around the time he was born. I included pics of myself as a young child, too, which blew his mind. It turned out that early childhood photos of the both of us are eerily alike...they're almost carbon copies, except I was a girl and he was a boy. He told me later that it was the first time in his life that he had ever felt like he looked like somebody...and that it made him feel good.

[Amandak249]

I am an adoptee. As I grew older, little pieces of information were given to me about my life before birth, and the circumstances surrounding my conception and early life . These details are sad, and very unpleasant. I could NEVER have been ready to hear them at the age of 13. Ever. Even now, as an adult, it hurts me to think about all the raucous my existence caused amongst my birth-family. I am in a reunion, and even in the most perfect of moments in our relationship, it still hurt. I will give you the most honest opinion that I can.


At the risk of sounding unpopular, I suggest you discuss WITH the child's parents anything and everything you plan on disclosing to her.

Keep in mind, as I know you are, that she is only 13 (soon to be 14). She has the mental capacity to understand everything you say, but may not yet have the maturity to process and deal with the subsequent emotions. I would talk to the parents on the phone, and discuss your worries and concerns. It's all about honesty on both ends. If you tell her too much, it could seriously damage what progress she's made on her road to understanding. Too little, or none at all, and you may be hindering it. There is a balance. Talk to her parents about your doubts and worries.

On one side, you brought this child into the world, and you chose to place her for adoption. This may make me unpopular, as I know many women say that they didn't have no choice, were tricked, or forced into placing a child. But at the end of the day, we all make choices. Influenced , informed, or otherwise, a choice is a choice. Moral and ethical arguments aside, in the USA , abortion is legal. I applaud you for continuing the pregnancy, especially because it seems that the circumstances around the child were very painful. But that being said, adoption is a choice all the way around (unless a judge ordered you to surrender parental rights or other extenuating circumstances).

In some ways, you are responsible for this child's well being, and any neglect or feelings of abandonment she may or may not feel. But only to a certain extent. Those feelings exist BECAUSE of you, but once you sign those forms, you give up any responsibility. Her awareness of the choices you made for her life will effect her, but it is NOT your responsibility to care for her in the aftermath. That's what adoption is supposed to be about right? You could not care for her at the time, and you made the choice to give her parents who could.

Her parents, who REALLY chose to parent her, need to work as a family, with or without professional help,and get this girl to a point where she can accept who and what and how she is, and be able to come to terms with everything in her life. They have raised her. THEY are her parents, as painful as it may be to say it. They know her personality, her needs, and hopefully her feelings ( it sure seems like they are very aware of what their daughter desires and feels)


Do not let her mother guilt trip you into being a physical and very present part of this child's life. She is their responsibility, just as you have a responsibility to yourself to do whatever you need to do to take care of your feelings, emotions, and needs. She has two evidently loving parents to help her work through this, and if you are having ANY doubts as to whether or not your meeting her would be beneficial to ALL parties, my strong advice is to stay out until you feel you have something to offer.

A 13 year old girl is finding herself. It's complicated for everyone , regardless of familial circumstances. Do you think this child really should know about the violence surrounding her conception, and the very strong emotions surrounding her birth? If you decide to go ahead with the visit, be tactful, and discuss with the parents first what you intend to say. But as I said before, you have NO obligation. You have surrendered your parental rights, presumably for good reason. I don't want to sound harsh, but unless you have worked out the bulk of your feelings surrounding this adoption, it's best to keep a distance until you feel ready. Express this doubt to her parents, but be open to a perhaps less emotionally charged visit. I think its perfectly reasonable for you to visit with her and use age appropriate conversations to give her the information she needs to mature into a healthy adult. Over time, as your relationship matures, you may find that you are able to give her the raw details.


If you feel your presence would be beneficial, go for it. Talk to the parents about what you should discolse. Be tactful, and loving, and it'll work wonders.

If you do not feel comfortable, stay away until you do. Talk to her adoptive parents, explain very candidly how you feel, and work through your own stuff before bringing loads of unnecessary baggage into this child's life. If they cannot understand your needs, shame on them.


If any party does something they do not feel comfortable with, the results may be disastrous for the child they all so desperately want to help.

[bjc76]

Thanks everyone for your response in regards to the journal I will wait until she is older and after we get to know each other better before such a thing is disclosed.

Now…on to Amandak249…. Well – first of all – thank you for your opinions. You are right – it was my choice to place her for adoption. I was not forced. As for abortion being legal – sadly, yes it is – but was not and will never be an option for me.

You said that her parents are the ones responsible for her well-being and getting her through this. I understand where you are coming from, but at the same time I have to say that I believe this is my responsibility as well. Even though I signed that paper terminating my rights, I went into the adoption agreement with her parents with the idea that I would be involved and that she would know me. I have done a horrible job thus far at being there for her. I need to deal with that.

As you are an adoptee, I am a bit shocked to hear that you feel that I have NO obligation toward my child. I have to wonder if it is because of your own pain toward the fact of your conception, birth and early life. But I respect your opinion and thank you for it.

I absolutely agree with you that disclosing harsh information too soon would be hurtful. I don’t know if I will ever tell her the facts surrounding her conception or if she’ll even ask. But if surely would not be something I would tell her before adulthood.

Thanks again and Merry Christmas!