[Sidney]

Quote from above post:

"Kept" children have access to the history of their face and their family - a unique identity and a heritage.

It's about rights, not reunions."

And where did this "idea" about such "rights" come from? I once read an enlightening article by an adoptee who was contacted by her bmother, and wanted no part of her. She made a wise statement that I have often thought about:

"Who can say what rights one has AFTER the fact?" She was referring to the "rights" guaranteed bparents AND adoptees at some point in the past, and now being violated.

There are always more people involved in these "reunions" than JUST THE ADOPTEE. There's the aparents, the adoptee's husband/children (if married), the bparents, their families and the list goes on. YES, adoptees have the right to their biological/medical info, for that is imperative. But a database to give this info anonymously should be established.

As for "cultural" heritage: Let's face it folks in America, we're all NOW Americans -- and trying to identify our "cultural heritage" is pointless. Most of us have such a wide multi-international "heritage" it makes no sense whatsoever to try and "identify" with any one culture.

And the question: "Who Am I?" This is an age-old question asked by those of us who were raised by our bio-parents; it's more a "spiritual" question than biological. Woe unto those who think this ageless, timeless question can be answered by "biological" answers.

[mxdad418]

Maybe I read this post last wrong......No i don't think i did.
I just erased the response it took me 15 mins. to write. I came to understand there is NO response to someone who doesn't understand. Should i waste my time?...or should i reiterate what has been posted on this site thousands of times?...evidently, if someone has read 1 post or 1000 posts, and they still believe.... "And the question: "Who Am I?" This is an age-old question asked by those of us who were raised by our bio-parents; it's more a "spiritual" question than biological. Woe unto those who think this ageless, timeless question can be answered by "biological" answers". There can be no response (From Me)..

Bio-parents?....now i understand....

btw, you also stated "But a database to give this info anonymously should be established". Can we count on you to sign a petition sign?

Mark 08-17-53

The law must be consonant with life. It cannot and should not ignore broad historical currents of history. Mankind is possessed of no greater urge than to try to understand the age-old questions: "Who am I ?", and "Why am I?" Even now the sands and ashes of the continents are being sifted to find where we made our first steps as man. Religions of mankind often include ancestor worship in one way or another. For many the future is blind without sight of the past. Those emotions and anxieties that generate our thirst to know the past are not superficial and whimsical. They are real and they are "good cause" under the law of man and God."
By the Hon. Wade Weatherford, S. Carolina Circuit Court Judge

[dl]

And the question: "Who Am I?" This is an age-old question asked by those of us who were raised by our bio-parents; it's more a "spiritual" question than biological. Woe unto those who think this ageless, timeless question can be answered by "biological" answers.

Sidney ~ did you perhaps mean to say This is an age-old question ALSO asked by those of us who were raised by our bio-parents?

If that is what you meant, I completely agree with you. As an adoptee, my search for "Who Am I?" was no different than any of my friends who were also searching for "Who Am I" in the spiritual sense ~ and none of them were adopted.

Adoptees that search out of a need to find themselves run a huge risk of being dissapointed. It's one thing to want to know medical history or perhaps see who one looks like. It's another to expect to find out "who you are" by meeting a biological stranger. One should know "who they are" before they attempt contact, IMO.

[shirleyville]

dl,

One should know "who they are" before they attempt contact, IMO.

AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Big Hugs,
Sally

[RiverGal]

Sidney ~ In order to better understand the direction you are firing from, what exactly is your relationship to adoption? Are you a triad member yourself, or just by proxy?

~D

Originally posted by MissngLinkInFL
Sidney ~ In order to better understand the direction you are firing from, what exactly is your relationship to adoption? Are you a triad member yourself, or just by proxy?

~D

I have the same question?

Originally posted by Sidney
Quote from above post:

"Kept" children have access to the history of their face and their family - a unique identity and a heritage.

It's about rights, not reunions."

And where did this "idea" about such "rights" come from? I once read an enlightening article by an adoptee who was contacted by her bmother, and wanted no part of her. She made a wise statement that I have often thought about:

"Who can say what rights one has AFTER the fact?" She was referring to the "rights" guaranteed bparents AND adoptees at some point in the past, and now being violated.

There are always more people involved in these "reunions" than JUST THE ADOPTEE. There's the aparents, the adoptee's husband/children (if married), the bparents, their families and the list goes on. YES, adoptees have the right to their biological/medical info, for that is imperative. But a database to give this info anonymously should be established.

As for "cultural" heritage: Let's face it folks in America, we're all NOW Americans -- and trying to identify our "cultural heritage" is pointless. Most of us have such a wide multi-international "heritage" it makes no sense whatsoever to try and "identify" with any one culture.

And the question: "Who Am I?" This is an age-old question asked by those of us who were raised by our bio-parents; it's more a "spiritual" question than biological. Woe unto those who think this ageless, timeless question can be answered by "biological" answers.

Sidney,

You ask some good questions. I will try to answer the best that I can. Mind you, I do not need to defend my feelings or prove what is "right" or "wrong".

In the first place a child is concieved through the actions of bmom and dad......no judgment there...just a fact. From that point on another human is born as a direct result of their actions. Hopefully, sometimes it is a time for joy for these parents and famlies, sometimes it is a time of confusion, pain, and horror for these parents. Hopefully from that point on as in any birth the needs of the child will be front and center.....sometimes that invovles adoption ,sometime not. Often the decision for adoption for this infant, who life is being set by the adults around hom/her......is a good one as in my case and many other adoptees...sometimes it is not as in the case of abused adoptees . What I have come to realize is that often adoption is about the needs of adults.......if that "child" that grows into an adult has questions, they could be told ...you should be lucky your alive....after all you could have been aborted.....your lucky your parents adopted you...who knows what horrible life you could have had!! I AM greatful I am alive...I am greatful I was adopted by great people...but my greatfulness should not be any more then anyone else that has had a good life given to them by their parents...If I am expected to be more grateful then everyone ekse.....does that make me "less"then everyone else....does make me need to walk around in an eternal state of gratfullness that other people just take for granted.....I don't need to know about biological history..because I should be grateful.....I am not worthy of knowing....I may make life uncomfortable for other people? Trust me, The LAST THING I ever want to do is hurt anyone.....or disrupt anyone. I feel many times people that are not involved in adoption feel that we that are should just keep quiet and be grateful. There is nothing to be afraid of in knowing about us or just knowing us.....we are just like anyone else..if in fact an adoptee does barge in without respect to others and does "demand" without regard that is something else. Respect needs to be honored for everyone. I guess thats the funny thing about adoption.....and reunions...its about repect for everyone including the adoptee...it is not just about one person...it is not just about bfather, bmother, adoptee, spouses ect.....it is all inclussive....why?...because this person was concieved and does exist because of the actions of 2 people...whether one thinks bio info is imporant or not, the fact that the person who needs it does is deserving of respect all around.. medical info not important?? Unable to ask questions in regards to medical and heritage....only to maintain privacy?? It could be very imporatnt for someone to know....only because someone not invoved in the conception and birth is uncomfortable? I guess everyones elses needs are more important...somehow that bothers me...because ..guess what...I do know myself and I do know I am just as important as anyone else.

Your quote about the adoptee was only one person and does not make her more "right"...how easy to latch on to that and make it easier for everyone else.

You also said theat we all have the age old search for self and yes, everyone does have that..but when you all ready have your birth, culture and bio info in place in sure does make it easier doesn't it?

You also said culture is not important and yes we are a melting pot....then why in everyday conversation someone inevitably says ...I came from a french family so therfore I act this way or , I am italion so I can cook(I was brought up Italion and am not a great cook..lol) ect. If in fact I do have so many cultures that are my heritage and can't pinpoint one....let me figure that out...why should some stranger who knows nothing about me decide what I can and can not know about ME!! Oh wait , everyones elses needs, feelings, and discomforts come first....

It is not just about idenity...for heavens sakes....yes at the age of 47 I have a pretty good idea of who I* am...it is about concrete info needed..not only for or about "the adoptee"...but for future children and grand children of that adoptee.

Let me reitrate..no one should go into a reunion with anger and a need to strike out and hurt ANYONE...nobody can force a relationship with anyone, we all need to atept to undertand everyones unique postions in this situation....but understanding someones position isn't thast hard even if it is a spouse...sometimes we have to look beyond ourselves. Apersonal note with info needed is not all that hard....a personal note saying why they can not have a relationship is ok too.... a clearing house for info......naw...way to cold....but how easy for someone who doesn't want to takeresponsability of actions of lonf ago.

[radiodoll]

dpen, I adore you.

I would not want a reunion with my birth parents because they don't want one with me. However after filling out forms forever, I am a 48 years old adoptee, I can't FILL IN THE STUPID BLANKS. In America we have labels. Some get you further than others. Some are outrageous. Some are stupid.

I just filled out an application for a high powered university and on the STUPID FORM it asks you for your ETHNIC HERITAGE. It cost me alot of money to answer that question and I had to go "underground" to find out. I don't think my Bmom, Helen, had a problem filling out that line.

HELLO! Is anyone trying to tell me that I don't have a RIGHT to know where my face and body came from? Then I don't think you do either. So, what?...The birthparents are protected from sociatal shame but the adoptee should be kicked to the curb by other kids, families, cultures, because of lesser status????

Ever been beaten half to death by a gang of kids because they "found out" you were adopted? Ever run into any LIFE problems because you had to answer questions with "I don't know....I'm adopted." As adoptees, sociatal shame is inherent. How sad.

Helen doesn't want to meet me, fine. Cool. My door is always open. I have a great family and really don't need another one, thank you. I am also a very happy person with an amazing life for which I thank God each day.

But I have a right to MY personal history which I did not give permission to be withheld. It's mine. Period. I will continue to search to obtain it.

Reunion is just the brass ring as the world goes 'round.

It's about rights, not reunion.
OPEN RECORDS FOR ADULT ADOPTEES

Radiodoll

[Prichard]

Sidney,
You continue to deny what many of us see as fundamental -- that you cannot forever deny an adoptee the right to know their heritage. Where did this idea come from? It sprang up from those who were impacted the greatest from it, sort of like how the right to free speech or freedom of assembly didn't exist until someone thought it would be a good idea to have them.

Many legislatures across the country agree to some extent and have given atleast some hope for receiving information about their heritage.

As for it not being important because we are all American, let me tell you a story. Before I ever had any contact with my birthparents, I learned how to do genealogical research and I traced their families back as far as I possibly could. I knew the names of grandparents, great grandparents and great-great grandparents. I learned how old they were when they got married, how many children they had, where they lived and how old they were when they died. Sometimes I knew what they did for a living and what they died from. I didn't find this out because someone told me I should, or because it was a hobby of mine. I did this because it was of great importance to me. After I did it I walked on cloud nine for weeks. And you tell me that trying to find cultural heritage is pointless? Do you understand the word heritage? Or culture? Or put it more simply, have you ever heard of a non-adoptee being interested in genealogy? Do you ever wonder why they do that? Do you tell them that it's pointless?

This is information that many people take for granted. Many hear their family history discussed by their grandparents at holidays and reunions and they couldn't care less. For me, it was completely different. I came from a point of knowing nothing and then I learned nearly everything. I take great pride in knowing the towns in Europe that my great-grandparents lived in before they came to this country. I am American, but that doesn't mean I don't have in interest in my family history. Your premise that cultural heritage is pointless because we are all American first assumes that all adoptees are American and second, confuses nationality with heritage.

Similarly, you imply that adoptees searching for biological information is useless because :

"the question: "Who Am I?" This is an age-old question asked by those of us who were raised by our bio-parents; it's more a "spiritual" question than biological. Woe unto those who think this ageless, timeless question can be answered by "biological" answers."

"Woe"? You don't even understand the 'ageless, timeless question' let alone the answer. The search for one's 'heritage' is much more basic than the search for who you are as an individual.

'Who were my parents, what do they look like, what are their interests, what do they do for a living, what are they like, or what are they names and can I meet them?' is an altogether different set of questions than the search that was termed in the sixties as 'looking for yourself.'

You must first grasp that concept, and try to understand the adoption experience, before you can understand why adoptees can confidently state they we have a right to know where we came from. I don't think you took my advice and read Dr. Andersen's book. Here is the amazon link.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...glance&s=books

"Adoption plays a big role in the life of every adoptee. Start with that assumption." Second Choice, 160.

I, like the others, haven't seen your post replying to the question of what part of the triad brings you to these issues. In one post you actually stated you were contacted by an adoptee as part of a con. You wrote:

"Male adoptee scam?
"Just curious if anyone else has had contact with an adoptee claiming to be long lost son? Got contact some time ago from such a male person, had P.I. check him out, and was told "to be careful of this individual" as "he" had a great amount of debts unpaid, etc. Also, this individual seems to be using various names, and one he'd used did have a criminal record."

I found that very strange. I'd like to know more about that. In another post you asked me what legal advice I would give for someone being harrassed by an adoptee.

It seems that you or your spouse has been contacted by an adoptee. From your other posts you also have concerns about birthparent keeping secrets from their spouse, or making a guarantee that a child would never contact the birthparent. If you or your spouse is a birthparent who doesn't want a relationship, you won't get any grief from me. That is your right and your choice and has nothing to do with me. Heck, I don't even give my own birthmother grief over that.

What I do take issue with is you continuing to criticize and demean the experiences of adoptees and the need for information, the desire to search and the desire to try to meet birthparents. In another post you claim that television has created "a generation of adult adoptees and birth parents to believe in that perfect reunion -- the meeting that will fill all the voids in their lives, resolve all of their feelings of inadequacy, assuage all their guilt." You also insinuate that searching is not important, and that I as an adoptee don't have a right to the information that you knew from the time before you were old enough to understand how important that information was. Or, perhaps that is the basis of our lack of communication. you still don't understand the importance.

Many of the adoptees here have acknowledged a birthparents right not to pursue a relationship. Why do you continue to criticize what you don't understand and refuse to learn about?

To all of the other very wise and kind people involved in this thread, I apologize if there is an innapropriate tone in my reply, but IMO, to criticize others views and experiences without having the decency to be a part of the discussion by sharing your background is pure cowardice and detracts from what this discussion is intended for.

[RiverGal]

Prichard ~ Three cheers for an articulate and well-worded post!

What bothers me is that one person can make blanket statements defining what the proper protocol and emotions of an adoptee should be, yet is not one, has never been one, will never be one...amazing insight for an outsider, I would say...however misdirected.

Sidney, once again, this is a support forum. Perhaps your needs would be better met if you authored your own thread and tried to find some like-mided individuals to validate your beliefs.

~D

[Sidney]

First off, I'm sorry if the tone of my posts sometimes "offend" others; I am merely being honest as I think all here want honesty. And perhaps my perspective is multi-faceted, in that I come at this from various viewpoints due to my own experience.

I haven't posted my exact situation for I am a somewhat reserved, private person insofar as my own life is concerned. And also due to the fact that these posts are archived, and who knows what will come back to haunt one from the web?

However, I will state that I have direct and indirect experience with adoption. First, I WAS contacted by a guy claiming to be my "biological" son; and since the info this person provided seemed suspect at the least, and downright wrong at the worst, I hired a P.I. to check into this individual's whereabouts since I couldn't find a valid address OR phone number. Turns out the P.I. said this individual had been using various I.D.s and could not be traced to an exact location or mailing address. However, upon more in-depth investigation, it was learned under one I.D. this person had been arrested, and had left outstanding debts at various past residences in different states. Other than spending any more money on investigation (and due to no further contact) I just let it drop.

I know a woman whose husband was contacted by his bio-son, and it almost ruined their marriage. Maybe it shouldn't have, but it nearly did.

I have a cousin who was adopted. She found her "biological" family and was worse off for the knowledge. And yes, I know this isn't always the case for all adoptees, but I think a strong dose of realistic expectation is in order BEFORE the "Great Search/Hunt" is on.

I suppose MY curiosity about WHY adoptees/bparents might search brought me here, but I've tried to look at the situation from different viewpoints. Admittedly, it is perhaps difficult for me to put myself in an adoptee's place, but...it seems like the morbid curiosity factor coupled with an unsolved mystery (of who the bparents are) generates a lot of the searches. Therefore, I have come to the conclusion that open adoptions are best for all concerned, in the long run. Unfortunately, this POSSIBLY could result in LESS adoptions, and more kids in foster homes or orphanages. But so be it.
====

Two quotes to respond to:

"A personal note with info needed is not all that hard....a personal note saying why they can not have a relationship is ok too.... a clearing house for info......naw...way to cold....but how easy for someone who doesn't want to takeresponsability of actions of lonf ago."

Granted, perhaps bparents DO owe this info to adoptees, particularly the bio/medical info. But as to ALL adoptees "accepting" no contact, will they? Not from what I've read on these boards.

A clearing house for bio/medical (and to sooth drichard, cultural heritage) IS genuinely needed; if for nothing else, for those adoptees whose bparents are dead or will NOT provide the pertinent info.

As for bparents "accepting responsibility" for what they did long ago, perhaps they DID. According to society in those times, "doing the RIGHT thing" was giving up an unwanted child to adoptive parents who, presumably, would provide loving, caring, financially-secure homes. Times change, as we all know; but to always ASSUME that bparents didn't "accept responsibility?" I don't think so. IF they had wanted the "easy" way out, you wouldn't be alive to post such a statement for abortion would have been the quickest, easiest way out, ending ALL responsibilty and future problems. Perhaps abortions will increase as a result of the adoptee's "rights" movement....but again, so be it. Or would you prefer that bparents who were too immature and unprepared for parenting, keep the child and when the stress was too great, they abuse their child, even kill in a fit of rage? Happens every day, just look at the news. There is no such thing as a perfect world, and there are ALWAYS difficult decisions to be made when an unwanted pregnancy occurs.
=====

And this quote:
"This is information that many people take for granted. Many hear their family history discussed by their grandparents at holidays and reunions and they couldn't care less. For me, it was completely different. I came from a point of knowing nothing and then I learned nearly everything. I take great pride in knowing the towns in Europe that my great-grandparents lived in before they came to this country. I am American, but that doesn't mean I don't have in interest in my family history. Your premise that cultural heritage is pointless because we are all American first assumes that all adoptees are American and second, confuses nationality with heritage."

I'm in that first category; I could care less about my heritage, though I know it ALL. I think if such info is provided (via open adoptions) to adoptees, MOST of them will possibly have very little interest in it. I think we ARE AMERICANS first, and that our heritage should come secondary, way, way down the list. There is a reason America became the great "melting pot." Don't get me started on what is partly wrong in this country NOW that everyone is "cultural-oriented." Either you are an American, or you're not -- in which case you can live elsewhere.

====
One last quote:

"In another post you claim that television has created "a generation of adult adoptees and birth parents to believe in that perfect reunion -- the meeting that will fill all the voids in their lives, resolve all of their feelings of inadequacy, assuage all their guilt."

No, you are quoting an article by an adoptee which I suggested others read. She wrote those words, and she also has a "right" to her opinion/feelings. NOT EVERY ADOPTEE NEEDS OR WANTS TO FIND BPARENTS, NOR DO THEY WISH CONTACT FROM THEIR BPARENTS. How do you protect "their right to privacy?"

Look beyond yourself, how OTHERS, how SOCIETY, how AMERICA, how OTHER CHILDREN, how ADOPTION in general is affected by YOUR demands... I believe that is MY message, and my last post.

[mxdad418]

"but IMO, to criticize others views and experiences without having the decency to be a part of the discussion by sharing your background is pure cowardice and detracts from what this discussion is intended for".


I must admit...Your post was soooooooooo much better than the one i withdrew (Glad i did now) .

Sidney, "Honesty" is good.............tc, cya, bye bye....

Mark 08-17-53

"How simple a thing it seems to me that to know ourselves as we are, we must know our mothers' names".
Alice Walker (1944 - )

[FL_GirlByProxy]

~D, you have alot more patience than I do, God bless you!!

Sidney, I am horrified at your general depiction of adoption, as a "one size fits all situation".

And, NO CHILD IS UNWANTED. It is heartbreaking to lose a child to adoption! NO CHILD IS UNWANTED.

[FL_GirlByProxy]

Originally posted by Sidney
I suppose MY curiosity about WHY adoptees/bparents might search brought me here, but I've tried to look at the situation from different viewpoints. Admittedly, it is perhaps difficult for me to put myself in an adoptee's place, but...it seems like the morbid curiosity factor coupled with an unsolved mystery (of who the bparents are) generates a lot of the searches. Therefore, I have come to the conclusion that open adoptions are best for all concerned, in the long run. Unfortunately, this POSSIBLY could result in LESS adoptions, and more kids in foster homes or orphanages. But so be it.
====

What in the world are you saying???? Morbid curiousity?? I want to know if my son is alive, happy, healthy, and if he can forgive me for signing those adoption papers. I hope he wants to know the woman who gave birth to him, under intense pressure for abortion, then adoption. I hope he wants to know me, and his brother and sister. Morbid curiousity?? Your comments are rude, insensitive, and insulting. This saddens me to no end.

[RiverGal]

Main Entry: mor·bid
Pronunciation: 'mor-b&d
Function: adjective
Etymology: Latin morbidus diseased, from morbus disease
Date: 1656
1 a : of, relating to, or characteristic of disease <morbid anatomy> b : affected with or induced by disease <a morbid condition> c : productive of disease <morbid substances>
2 : abnormally susceptible to or characterized by gloomy or unwholesome feelings
3 : GRISLY, GRUESOME <morbid details> <morbid curiosity>
- mor·bid·ly adverb
- mor·bid·ness noun