While reading some threads at the weekend I realized that what is needed by adoptees is the truth (duh! right?). Perhaps they don’t need to know all the details to open a conversation but at varying points in contact with birth families they do need to hear the whys and why not of their conception and subsequent adoption.

How much truth is too much or not enough? Is there anything you would like to ask your birth family but don’t dare?

[ballet_slippers]

Wow that is a question that is plaguing me too, I dont want to be to honest with my son yet I also think the truth is vital. What do adoptee's want to know?

[shirleyville]

Gee...this is an awfully lengthy topic to take on at 11:16 pm...when I have a 9:00 meeting I am supposed to be preparing for, but I will give this a go, and see where it takes me!
I come from the 1960's era of secrets and lies where adoption is concerned, so many of my questions may seem simple in comparison to some -- basically, because I don't know ANYTHING! I would also like to preface this by saying that not ALL of my "questions" are for my birthfamily -- I've got a few choice ones for dear old Mom and Dad, too, since the 60's system made them feel they shouldn't ever discuss anything with me!
From my birthmom, Mary Ellen, I would like to know (in no particular order)
1) Who my father is
2) What was going on in her life at the time I was conceived
3) What it felt like when she was pregnant with me....all the little stories you always hear other moms tell -- like when I first kicked, and if she had weird cravings, and what it was like when she went into labor....was she scared? Was she sad?
4) What labor was like with me.....was it awful? Was it long? Was it easy? Was she alone or was someone with her there, waiting with her? Did she see me? Did she ever hold me? Did she want to name me something?
5) What was it like in the days and months after I was born? How did she feel?
6) How did you find my parents? (I was a private adoption) I am curious how I ended up where I did. Did she ever meet them, or know anything about them?
7) Did she ever think of me over the years in a positive way, or has it all been the "nightmare" she described to my CI -- dreading the day I might resurface.
8) What really happened after my CI called, and her husband got involved in all of the drama....along with my aunt and uncle.
9) What are my siblings like -- from her perspective. What makes her so afraid they wouldn't understand about me?
10) What is her world like? What does she think about, dream about, want from the rest of her years?
11) What does she think of ME -- how I turned out...what I have done with my life....who I have become?
The of course there are all the millions of little things....like what she looks like, what she smells like, what she feels like.......what her favorite color is....what she enjoys doing....what kind of music she likes....what kinds of things she finds funny and what kinds of things are a "turn off". What does she like to watch on TV...movies....etc. How old was she when she started her period and what age she went into menopause. Is she sensitive or stoic -- stubborn or passive....what her favorite food is and what foods she hates.....how she feels about things in the world.....if she is a spiritual person....
I mean I could go on...but I think you get the idea!
I'd like to know from my parents why they didn't feel they could ever talk about my adoption....how they found me....why they lied and told me they didn't know who my birthmother was, when, in fact, they did.....if they ever look at me, as they are shaking their heads at the MASSIVE differences in our personalities and beliefs, and think "I wonder where THAT comes from" -- because I sure do! I'd like to hear about their fears and what they have supressed all these years......and most of all, I would like to see their faces when they hear that my birthfamily has lived all around us my entire life.....that my aunt actually wallpapered their house, and that my uncle is the "SOB County Commissioner" that my father has been batteling for 20+ years over the condition of the roads out here! LMAO
I would want to share all of my thoughts and feelings openly with Mary Ellen....never having to "weigh thoughts or measure words" and have her do exactly the same. To share open honesty for once in my life with the woman who brought me into this world -- to never be afraid that something I said or did would be wrong enough to make her go away -- to just be loved as I am.
I don't know if that answers your questions....but it's a start! I'd be happy to tell you anything you want to know!
Hugs,
Sally

[shirleyville]

I also wanted to say that if I was a product of rape or incest, I would want to know.......just as I would want to know if I am the product of a one night stand with a man whose name Mary Ellen didn't even know.....or if there were multiple men that might be my father.
None of that makes me feel negatively about myself.....not in the slightest -- nor would it make me feel negatively about Mary Ellen. I just want the truth.......
For me, personally, there IS no such thing as "too much information".
I want it all....the good, the bad, and the ugly!
Hugs,
Sal

Well Sally

I would want to know those things about you too if I were you bmom. I think when you believe in love nothing is too much truth.

Gosh I hope you get some answers honey. Maybe I should call Mary Ellen and tell her to wake up and smell her daughter cause you sure are someone to be proud of.

big hugs
Love from me to you
M

P.S. hope your meeting goes well

[shirleyville]

Thanks for your kind words.....
I wish I had her phone number -- I'd have you call her! LMAO
You know, one of the most hurtful things that I've been thru in this was hearing from my cousin that Mary Ellen said she couldn't stand the thought of hearing that I had lived a grand life, while she and her children were made to endure a less than happy existance. Shannon said she was "jealous" of the advantages I have had (and she has NO IDEA if I have ever HAD any advantages, because she knows nothing about me). It literally killed me to hear that, because I always thought the reason she gave me up was so I COULD have those kinds of things, ya know?
But Lemonchutney helped me to understand where that kind of mindset could come from. I am sure that back in 1964, she heard a lot of things like "your child will be so much better off " and "you can't provide the kind of life your child deserves." Well, if she were to take a chance on knowing me, she would be opening herself up to the fact that, on the surface, it would appear they 1960's "naysayers" were right. I've lead a charmed life with all the advantages in the world -- and the children she parented are all alcoholics with little to no motivation, raising their own families in the welfare system.....my brother is in and out of trouble with the law for alcohol related problems. I was an honor student and attended college on an academic scholarship....her other kids bearly got out of high school at all (one didn't).....they have trouble keeping a job, and I own my own business.....
If she took a chance on knowing me, it would bring to the forefront all those negative things people said to her 38 years ago. It's too painful for her.
It just hurt to think that all the things, all these years, that I couldn't WAIT to tell her....all of the things I have achieved and done with the life she gave me....were the very things she didn't want to hear. It broke my heart that instead of being proud of me....and proud that she was my mother.....she would be upset and jealous. But I can see how it might be that way.
Hugs,
Sally

[ballet_slippers]

That is one of my questions to my son.lol. Througout my pregnancy with him I had a huge adversion to meat, any kind, this also happened with my daughter and she is a natural vegatarian. I would eat peanut butter while pregnant with my son like it was going out of style...I mean HUGE jars a day. I am dying of curiousity on whether or not he really enjoys peanut butter. Esp since the other three I have LOVE the food I craved when pregnant with them. ie, when pregnant with my second son I loved eating greek food, and steak with hotsauce...He is a spicy food eater, my daughter (the vegetarian) hates apple juice, but loves apples, hates oranges but loves orange juice...same when I was pregnant with her. I am so curious to find out if this is the same with my first born.
Just felt the need to share.

Sally

Mary Ellen is not the first mother I have heard reacting like that. I am not sure she is jealousy of you, more jealous that life dealt her a bad hand.
I hate when people say things like, "yes well if I had that ones luck/money I could have done xyz too". People have to remember that life is not a free ride we all have to work to achieve anything it does not just fall from the sky - sorry soap box.

Golly the more I hear about Mary Ellen the more frustrated she makes me - Ill have to go and have a coffee before my soap box gets out of control.

M

Ballet Slippers

I could not look at oranges eww made me so ill - I will have to ask my daughter if she likes them.

[shirleyville]

M,
There is no need to appologize for the soap box....I am on it with you!
I've said this on other threads, but I feel it appropriate to say again that I have a lot of different people in my life....some who are extremely wealthy and some who have no idea where the rent is coming from this month -- I have friends of almost every color and from every spiritual walk of life. I don't "see" social circumstances or color or religious or political beliefs or sexual orientation when I look at people....I see PEOPLE. I am open to just about anything -- EXCEPT people who feel the world "owes them". I was pretty dismayed when I heard from Shannon that my siblings are REALLY hooked up on the idea that because their lives have "sucked", they don't need to work or apply themselves, because they have been cheated, and are waiting for the world's big payback. It made me cringe, really.
It was then that I realized that even if I were to know them, I would never be comfortable sharing my life and my accomplishments with them, because they would constantly feel that I have achieved what I have because I had advantages they didn't.
I have to say that while I DID have a lot of financial advantages they apparently DIDN'T, most of the major accomplishments I have achieved came from ME....from applying myself -- from giving my all -- from having faith in God and belief in MYSELF. No one could PAY for my grades in school....I was an honor student because I studied and applied myself, both in high school and in college. No one in my family gave me a dime to start my own business....I did it on my own, because I wanted it. The success I have teaching my kids isn't something money bought -- it comes from loving the kids and loving my craft and working hard to make dreams come true.
I understand that they were raised by an abusive father who couldn't hold a job, but that doesn't mean THEY can't RISE ABOVE IT. I've seen people who have come from the worst possible environment and go on to own big companies. It's a personal choice to find a way to make things happen for YOU!
But then again, I am getting all of this information from my cousin. I have no idea if this is REALLY the way things are. She lead me to believe that Mary Ellen pretty much lived in squallor the way she told it, but I've been there to her house, and it looks wonderfully warm and inviting to ME. It's a small house that could use some paint, but they have a really nice, BIG yard that is well kept. The flower beds are nice and pretty. They have an above ground pool that looks well maintained....and a BOAT that looks nice. I was reminded by a cousin of my birth grandfather (the lady who helped me find my family) that Shannon is the daughter of a politician.....she may have different opinions about what poverty and squallor mean.
How do I really KNOW Mary Ellen thinks and feels these things? I can't, until I hear her say it to me. She may very well think and feel the way Shannon says she does -- and if she does, I will be fine with that....but until she tells ME to my face, I will never REALLY know.
It's all so hard to know what to do....
Hugs,
Sally

[clara]

Marieh,

Hi,
I know I don't have the bmom reunion context as many of you do: I have it with my bfather, but I think the question I have is probably appropriate for either bparent:

You began this thread with these two questions...
"How much truth is too much or not enough?
Is there anything you would like to ask your birth family but don’t dare?"

We can all argue until the cows come home about values and truths and different validities, but one of the questionsI have not asked is this:

To what extent do you think you have punished yourself because of what you chose to do? And I use the word 'chose' carefully.
( I am aware my wording is bound to raise some hecklers and objections).
I welcome your asking me questions in return.

I find "How much truth is too much or not enough" extremely pertinent and not discussed enough at all.
It raises a variety of issues for discussion and debate.

PS: I ate potatoes with my second pregnancy as if my life depended on it. My three year old is not a major fan.


Renée

Renee, what a question, good one.

I think the main punishment I inflicted on myself was not allowing my self to be happy. For years every time I thought about being happy I would sabotage what ever was making me happy, because I did not feel that I deserved to be happy. I would some how turn most things into an unhappy event. I believe it’s called “acting out”. I never wanted people to see that I was happy, especially my mother and family. How could I be happy after what I had done? Even receiving a gift could be turned into some kind of trauma, usually in the form of disregarding the gift. I would thank the person profusely but just leave the gift aside. This behavior caused problems with family and friends over the years. Accepting complements HA I did not deserve them, I knew the real me. And the one thing I always wanted was to have a child of my own to raise and love. I did not allow my self other children because I felt that I would be betraying my first baby.

What about you Renee how have you punished yourself?

Have a hug while you think it over.
m

[bajohnson]

m- I'm so sorry that you were put through that. You deserve all of the best the world has to offer. My heart just breaks for all those Moms out there that had secondary infertility. It is so hard to understand that the babies that you had, would never begrudge you the happiness of more children. I know that doesn't help now, but I sorry you couldn't parent children. You have your other "babies"(the 4 legged kind) and i know they make you happy, but still sounds like there is a hole in your heart.

Sally- How do you know that what your cousin and Aunt are telling you is the truth? I mean if you asked my cousins about me, they would tell you I was a spoiled rotten b!#@h. They hate my whole family, and think that we are a pain in the butt. Some families aren't as wonderful and kind to each other as we'd like. Maybe they are using some of this info to discourage you from contact. Just a thought.
Hugs,
Beth

[shirleyville]

Beth,
I have absolutely NO clue if my cousin is telling me the truth -- none what so ever! THIS would be one of the reasons I want to try to contact her myself. I am so tired of relying on everyone else's perceptions and expectations. Mary Ellen and I were the only two there when I came into this world -- I think we should have a chance to have this be between us, again.
Love ya!
Sally

[bajohnson]

Sally gal,
I agree 100%! It is between you and Mary Ellen. Period. If you wait and cajole, and beg for those little morsels, what's the point. What loss is there if you lose them? I don't mean to sound hard, but I hate it when someone has what I want and I have to kiss a$$ to get a crumb.
Loads of love and hugs,
Let us know what happens,
Beth