[kakuehl]

I have a question for all of you: How do you define glory? We throw "religious" words around alot but we never really stop to think about what they mean! So, what does it mean to you to glorify God and to be glorified?

[mrsred]

Wow, Kathy, what a thought provoking question! And I cannot say I have an absolute answer, but here is my opinion. We give Glory to God, by honoring him in all that we do. When people praise me for adopting older children from the foster system, and I say it is in answer to God's calling, and through his grace, I am giving glory to God. When someone says Chris Tomlin writes and sings beautiful music and we recognize that it is not as a man, but as a Christian filled with the Holy Spirit, we are giving glory to God. So, I guess, what I am saying is that we give glory to God by admitting to ourselves, and spreading the news to others that ALL goodness comes from God Himself.
And to be glorified.... is to be filled with the Holy Spirit ourselves, so that that same goodness can flow from us. We are glorified when we give our lives over to Christ, and commit ourselves to doing His work.
Anyway, that's how I see it.

[kakuehl]

I say that same kinds of things; the problem is, none of them really define "glory". That's what makes this so difficult... it's kind of like trying to get hold of a greased pig!

[mrsred]

Webster's defines glory as very great praise, honor or distinction... something that is the source of honor, fame or admiration... resplendant beauty or magnificance... state of splendor or prosperity... state of absolute happiness... "Glory to God" used to express exaltation
And glorify to honor with praise, admiration... to extol
Does that help? Or just read Revelation 21... I would call that Glory!

[mrsred]

Kathy, I have been thinking about your queston a lot... here is something I found on web:

A New Definition for Glory - John 13:31-32

When Judas was gone, Jesus said, "Now the Son of Man receives his glory. And God receives glory through the Son of Man. If God receives glory through him, then God will give glory to the Son through himself. God will give him glory quickly." (ERV) Full Text

Key Thought

John has hinted throughout his gospel that Jesus would redefine glory. The word for exalt or glorify actually means to lift up on high. For Jesus, his glory will involve his being lifted up on high on the Cross out of love for us and in obedience to God. He will bring the Father glory by fulfilling the Father's plan to bring us out of our bondage to sin and death through his death, burial and resurrection. Are we willing to follow him to that kind of glory?
or at Definition of Glory you will find a lot of Biblical textbook type definitions that really help to pin it down.


That is from hearlight.org

[kakuehl]

Thank you, Mrs. Red. I was preaching on John 13 last Sunday and what you found is basically what I preached. I still think though that it is an intriguing problem to try to define terms that we sort of "throw around and assume that we all know what we mean, or more importantly that unchurched people know what we mean. Think about it: sin, salvation, repentance, spirituality, redemption, faith, the list goes on and on! And we wonder why people don't understand what we mean!

[mrsred]

Exactly! Add to your list: extol, sanctify and apportion! My kids ask me to explain these things to him, and sometimes I actually have to find the dictionary! Who am I kidding? sometimes I have to grab the dictionary for myself just to understand a scripture! That, or check it out in various translations. I have my old King James, a Living Bible, and NIV and my eight year olds NIRV for young readers. Sometimes I read the same scripture in all four, just to make sure I am grasping the meaning.

[kakuehl]

I can come up with more terms!

When I'm teaching preaching, I encourage anyone who doesn't read the original language (Hebrew or Greek) to read as many different translations as possible to garner as many nuances as possible. Another good pretty literal translation is the New American Standard.

[mrsred]

Matthew 8:28-33 tells the story of when Jesus arrived at Gadarenes and cast the demons out of the two men into the pigs (that then ran off the cliff). then, verse 34 says "Then the whole town went out to meet Jesus. And when they saw him, they pleaded with him to leave their region."
I was reading that last night, and as soon as I read verse 34 a question screamed into my mind. Why?
Why would the townspeople want Jesus to leave after he had just saved two men from the torture of demons?
I brought this up when meeting with some women at the church today, but was not really satisfied with the answer. One compared it to when Paul cast the demons from the woman that was a slave, and her owners were mad because she could no longer be a fortune teller, but I don't see this as being the same thing.
They must have been afraid... but of what? Were they afraid of the change that would take place in themselves?
And how many times, in how many areas of our life, do we respond like these people?

[kakuehl]

First of all, remember that Jesus was in foreign territory: these were not worshippers of the one God! Then look at what Jesus did... he cured the two men, but he destroyed the entire cash crop for the town! In both cases, the individuals who thought they were in control - the owners of the girl, the owners of the herd of pigs were shown that they were not in contol. Those who objected did not see what was positive... the healing of the two men and the girl. They weren't interested in anything expect their pockebooks (sound familiar). I'm not sure they saw any possible change for themselves except the loss of income!

That said, think how many of us, really just want God to fit into our lives. We don't want to be changed by God. Change is scary! (I fight this battle so often... as a pastor, I am currently trying to decide if it's time to "shake the dust off my sandals" and move on to another call... Of course, I don't like change either.)

[mrsred]

This goes right along with the definitions theme. Today being Trinity Sunday our pastor's sermon was on The Triune God, and the question "How do you define and explain the Trinity?" My 11 year old and I discussed it quite a bit this afternoon. I finally said I don't think this is one of those things that can have a Webster's Dictionary definition, because this is one of those things you know in your heart, not your head. Any thoughts?

[kakuehl]

The Trinity, ultimately is a mystery, part of what Luther liked to call the "Hidden God" (as opposed to the revealed God). No matter how we try to explain it (and we've tried to explain it for about 2000 years!) we never can quite grasp the concept. (In my first call, I had a shut-in I visited regularly. As I prepared to leave EVERY time I visited, she would say, "Pastor, I don't understand the Trinity." I would respond, "I don't either, let's talk about it."

I like the symbolism of a chicken egg: There is one egg: but there is a shell, yolk, and white.

You can also say: The Father is God, the Son is God, the Spirit is God; The Father is not the Son, the Son is not the Spirit, The Spirit is not the Father. (Helps???)

Sometimes we talk about the Trinity by function and say Creator, Redeemer, Sanctifier. The problem with this is that when God creates, Father, Son and Holy Spirit are involved, etc.

Those are few of my thoughts on the Trinity (LOL) Helpful, right?

[mrsred]

Our pastor used the anologies of the egg, the apple (peel, meat and seeds) and water. I think I actually liked water the best. Because it is really the same substance in different forms.
So God the Father as water, Christ as ice (as he came to us in a solid form) and the Spirit as steam or evaporation. So, as the water becomes ice or steam it separates from the main body of water, but as it warms or cools it becomes part of the water again.