[Lorraine123]

Have a question for you fellow Lutherans.

My daughter is 10 years old, so she is at the age for first communion. However, she has severe RAD and as a result cannot understand love and sacrifice. The sacrifice Jesus made for her is beyond her grasp.

We are torn about letting her take communion. Is it wrong to take it without any appreciation for its meaning or is it something that none of us truly understand and therefore its ok?

[mrsred]

Thanks. Acutally I remembered later. My mom and dad are members so i will ask Mom about it. She did give me one book set that explains the Lutheran church year in terms children can understand. I did read through some of that with my children. and obviously my 7 year old was paying some attention as he noticed right away that the altar was draped in purple last Sunday!

[kakuehl]

Originally Posted by Lorraine123

Have a question for you fellow Lutherans.

My daughter is 10 years old, so she is at the age for first communion. However, she has severe RAD and as a result cannot understand love and sacrifice. The sacrifice Jesus made for her is beyond her grasp.

We are torn about letting her take communion. Is it wrong to take it without any appreciation for its meaning or is it something that none of us truly understand and therefore its ok?

Lorraine, speaking as a pastor, let me ask you this question: do you wait for her to understand how the digestive tract works before you feed her?

Sometimes we get hung up as a church on having to understand what happens when we communion. Our understanding of the Eucharist changes as we grow in faith. Mine is still developing! Thanks be to God, I don't have to understand to benefit from coming to the Table.

Remember that Jesus said, "Let the little children come to me and forbid them not, because of such are the kingdom of God."

Just keep reminding her that this is one way Jesus shows us he does love us. God loves your daughter unconditionally. She is welcome at the Table.

Hope that helps a little. (I probably have a several hour lecture prepared on the subject.)

[kakuehl]

Originally Posted by mrsred

Thanks. Acutally I remembered later. My mom and dad are members so i will ask Mom about it. She did give me one book set that explains the Lutheran church year in terms children can understand. I did read through some of that with my children. and obviously my 7 year old was paying some attention as he noticed right away that the altar was draped in purple last Sunday!

Great! I learned a long time ago that kids pick up far more in worship than we give them credit for. Even when you think they're not paying attention.

[Lorraine123]

Wow Kathy. Thanks so much for analogy to the digestive system. Perfect. Its what I needed to hear.

[kakuehl]

Your welcome. My colleagues and I spend a great deal of time discussing the issue. I still hear people saying we should only commune 4 times a year because that makes it special... Luther believed the Meal should be offered every time we gathered. (Hm, I'm not preaching tomorrow so I'd better be careful or you'll get a sermon tonight!)

[mrsred]

I just signed up for a Via De Cristo weekend in April... actually in five weeks! I am so excited. Has anyone else done this?

[kakuehl]

One couple in the congregation I serve attend via de Christo weekends regularly. They love it. I would encourage anyone to attend (although I have not!) I hope you enjoy it and find spiritual growth there.

[dkb60]

I went through a weekend about 5 years ago. There are a good experience although I have some issue with some things. I hate the whole don't know what's going on/not in control thing. My daughter has gone through the Tirosh weekend.

If you are excited it will be a wonderful experience. I was talked into going and that is not the way to go.

D.

[BestLight]

I'm participating an online bible study. We're in the early chapters of Genesis, and I wanted to post some of my wonderings and questions here.

Regarding the Abraham and Isaac story (a prelude to the Jesus-as-sacrifice story), I have always questioned why an all-knowing and all-powerful (and all-loving, at least in the New Testament) god would require ANY sacrifice.

The James Michener book The Source describes the progression of the human idea of sacrifice. It begins with appeasing a god that is unpredictable (earthquakes, floods, famines, other unexplainable events) and must be bribed with human blood. Then, a time when animal blood would suffice. Finally, the blood of Jesus was spilled to redeem us all so that no more human or animal sacrifice was necessary to appease god.

So I ask: why do you think sacrifice is necessary at all?

[mrsred]

the animal sacrifices were commanded by God so that the individual could experience forgiveness of his sins. The animal served as a substitute--that is, the animal died in place of the sinner. Animal sacrifices have stopped with Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ was the ultimate sacrificial substitute and is now the only mediator between God and mankind (1 Timothy 2:5). Animal sacrifices foreshadowed Christ’s sacrifice on our behalf. The only basis on which an animal sacrifice could provide forgiveness of sins is the fact that Christ would sacrifice Himself for our sins, providing the forgiveness that animal sacrifices could only illustrate and foreshadow.
I wish I could say I was smart enough to have this answer, but I actually got it from Why did God require animal sacrifices in the Old Testament?
Hope that helps answer your question.

[kakuehl]

Why sacrifice? It's an interesting question isn't it? Here are a few of my thoughts...

1) The Abraham/Isaac story. In the time of the OT, many cultures practiced human sacrifice...Israel did not. One question the story answered for the Israelites is why they were different from the people around them. They didn't practice human sacrifice because while God wished to be loved and served above all others by Abraham, he demanded only the willingness to sacrificed the best loved only child. Remember that Jesus said that we are to love God more than anything else.. family, wealth, etc. Abraham was willing to trust God regardless of the personal condequences.

Anytime sacrifice is involved, there is a recognition that there is something greater than ourselves. We may sacrifice for very selfish reasons: (I want a child, renewed health, a good crop, etc.)but we are still looking to something beyond our selves.

2) The sacrificial system of the Old Testament helped the Israelites remember that all they "had" belonged to God. Read Genesis 1 - Humans were created to care for the earth and all that is in it. (The meaning of have dominion over something includes an understanding that you are responsible for the care and wellbeing of your "domain".) Humans are not masters of the earth (regardless of what we often think!) instead we are stewards for the real master/owner: God. The sacrificial system reminded Israel that it was God who granted them all that they had.

The offertory canticle we sing during Lent says, "What shall I render to the Lord, for all his benefits to me? I will offer a sacrifice of thanksgiving and will call upon the Lord..."

According to one of the reformed catachisms, human beings were created to worship and praise God.. with our whole selves and all that belongs to us. It is our understanding as Christians that the sacrifice of Christ ended the "need" for the use of animal sacrifice. Jesus's sacrificial death was a once for always event. It never needs to be repeated and yet it reminds us of the depth of God's love for his Creation.

I'm falling asleep and so I'll stop there. I hope my thought are helpful.

[mrsred]

I mainly wanted to just bump this up a bit. I have really enjoyed this thread and don't want it to fade away.
The previous posts about sacrifice bring to mind what out Pastor has been focusing his Wednesday night Lent services on. The theme has been "An Acceptable Sacrifice", which has led to a lot of discussion about what is acceptable? And what sacrifices can/do we make? After we have received the Greatest Gift, what can we possible have to offer God?

[kakuehl]

Good question! Do you remember the Christmas hymn "In the Bleak Midwinter"? The final stanza is What can I give him Poor as I am./ If I were a shepherd, I would bring a lamb./ If I were a wiseman, I would do my part/ Yet, what I have, I give him, give my heart.

Grace, God's unconditional love for us, is free but not cheap. The acceptable sacrifice is our whole selves, freely given! The prophet Amos was pretty clear (as was Jesus!) that making "ritual" sacrifices (animals, sabbath observance, donations of money - no matter how generous) at the same time you are abusing others, cheating them, etc, is not acceptable.

For me, acceptable sacrifice means "walking the talk": willingly living my life in response to God's love -- seeking to do and be what God wants me to be rather than "looking out for #1". Note that as Lutherans we believe that this is impossible without the power of the Holy Spirit (also a gift from God).

How that plays out in day to day life is somewhat different for all of us. What answers did your group come up with?