[DezDale]

HI all...this is my first post...so I'll try not to make it too long.

My husband and I have 4 biological children (his, mine & ours) ages 7, 15, 16, & 20.

My husband and I adopted two of our daughters when they were 13 & 14. They had been with us since they were 11 & 12. They have now been with us for 6 years, and are now 16 (17 in Sept.) and 18.

They were in the Foster system due to their bios dependecy on drugs and alcohol. And the Bio Mom's second husband sexually abused the older one.

In the last year we've had nothing but problems with the older one...drugs, lying, disrespect, alcohol. We're a "no tolerance" family, and she didn't like the rules. Darn.

Recently the older one turned 18, and graduated. The day after her graduation, she left to go to her Birth Mom. All of a sudden I start to receive nasty emails from the Bio Mom claiming that they are in counseling (the Bio Mom and my oldest adopted daughter) due to ME!!! Some of the emails refer to my younger adopted daughter and how she is still a part of their family and so forth...and then right back to blaming ME for all the older one's problems.

On Friday, I had two women come to the door of my house asking for me. They were from Child Protective Services!!! This is the first time in my life that I have had them at my door!!! Seems the Bio Mom and her oldest daughter turned me and my husband in to them. For what I have no clue, as the ladies didn't say. They were asking my younger adopted daughter about her tonsils and some other bullsh*t that only the older one knew about. What the Bio Mom and her older daughter didn't know is that my husband and I had taken our daughter into the docs 2 months ago for the problem.

Anyhow, what it boils down to is the oldest adopted girl turned US into CPS on some bogus report. I now have a CPS record at the county office that will stay there till my youngest biological daughter is 18!!! And no telling what else this crazy loon will do.

I guess since she has one daughter back, she now wants the other.

My question is this: Is there a way to protect myself, my husband and our kids from the Bio Mother and the older daughter? Can we legally reverse the adoption so that she has no ties to this family? If they continue to jeopardize my family, especially my 7 year old, what can we do? Can we place the younger one (the one that they want back) into Foster Care...thus eliminating the reporting? Can we send the younger one back to the Bio Mom? The younger daughter will be 17 in less than 2 months and a Senior in school. She wants to be where her bio sister is also.

As far as my husband and I are concerned, the older girl is no longer our daughter. You can't report your adoptive parents to CPS on bogus accusations and still expect to be part of the family. She has clearly made her choice as to who she wants as her family. I need to know what I can do!! Thanks.

[SViet10]

I am not an expert on legal issues - I just wanted to write to say that I'm sorry this is happening to you - I will pray for you and your situation. You've spent 6 years raising these girls and then this happens! Good luck to you and your family - hang in there!

[lucyjoy]

I certainly hope you explained to the CPS workers that the people who reported this abuse are trying to steal your child as the state had preiviously removed them from her care due to abuse. (I assume since they were older that's how they got to you?)Have you considered filing a restraining order against bmom and your older daughter to protect the younger one?

If you'd really rather just let the girl go back to mom, it's easier just to transfer custody and let her go(at this age). I'd first check with the police and find out at what age they stop chasing run aways. Once a kid hits 17 in our state, they pretty much leave them alone.

Another option, is to try to make peace with bmom. I don't know how possible that is being that she's holding you responsible for the damage she did. IN time, she will likely find out that your older daughter is less then honest. If you could make peace, your daughters could live with bmom and still have you involved in their lives.

Be sure to save all the lovely emails in case CPS shows back up.
Also, if you were given any records on bmom's abuse, dig those out too. I would take those records, the emails, the false reports, and my daughter to see an attachment trained therapist for a reality check.
You might want to read The Limits Of Hope for your own sanity. This isn't your fault.

[Missy M]

[i]Originally posted by DezDale:

As far as my husband and I are concerned, the older girl is no longer our daughter. You can't report your adoptive parents to CPS on bogus accusations and still expect to be part of the family. She has clearly made her choice as to who she wants as her family. I need to know what I can do!! Thanks. [/b]

Wow; I don't have the legal answers you asked for, but looking at this section of your post I am horrified! You say as far as my husband and I are concerned the older girl IS NO LONGER OUR DAUGHTER.....you can't report your adoptive parents.... I ask you; is the same true of your bio-kids? If they lie on you are they disowned, removed, returned to the hospital where they were born?? And what choice did the oldest *clearly make*? They ARE her family, just as you all are. Did you ask her to choose? You say she has problems with lying, alcohol etc. Imagine that; an abused child, raised by an alcoholic mother before being placed in foster care and later adopted having problems....Why wouldn't she? What were your expectations here when you adopted them? What were your motives, your reasons for doing so?
I am not making light of your situation, but as the mother of four; 3 raised 1 placed and reunited, all grown, its my experience that kids lie! They don't come with gaurentee's or warranty's; but in our home there is a no return policy; our love and commitment is forever. We simply haven't got a *no tolerance* clause in any of our relationships with our kids. My hubby and I don't even have that with each other. If he has an affair would I tolorate it; heck no, would I forgive him, probably....I certainly love him enough to try; ANYTHING, EVERYTHING to make it work. Even if he badly, horribly, misbehaves....Geez....Kids lie, steal, use drugs, skip school, get pregnant, leave gum under the coffee table and make other bad choices; but we help them, teach them and forgive them.... its called parenting, I think. You asked if you could turn the youngest girl back over to foster care to stop the reporting to CPS? That in itself should be grounds for launching an investigation if you list it as a reason for doing so. Heck, why not just drop them all off in case they should happen to lie, pee in the bed, or get a bad grade in the future. Even the criminal justice system has a board of paroles and pardons. Nobody is executed after the first crime.
These girls came to you from a horrific situation where rules, respect and boundaries seemed to have been none existing; yet you expect them to observe and obey so many rules of yours... to do the right thing or else....Do or die....I am in awe of your situation and your parenting style.....Good Luck>>>Missy


ps> as far as protecting yourself from a CPS investigation, while its an intrusion and its not comfortable, if its fair, the lies and non-sense will surface in time and you will be vindicated. You shouldn't even focus on that aspect of this situation because its clearly not your biggest or only problem here.

[lucyjoy]

"You say as far as my husband and I are concerned the older girl IS NO LONGER OUR DAUGHTER.....you can't report your adoptive parents.... I ask you; is the same true of your bio-kids? If they lie on you are they disowned, removed, returned to the hospital where they were born?? And what choice did the oldest *clearly make*? They ARE her family, just as you all are"

With all due respect, that isn't a fair comparison. First, bio kids can't threaten to go live with their other family because your not their real mother everytime life gets tough. Secondly, early abuse may have prevented this child from bonding with her adoptive parents.

Unless you've raised a child whose turned their back on you, and worse, claimed you were a monster, you can't know what it feels like.

[Sharon]

I am sorry for your difficult and painful situation, but I agree whole-heartedly with Missy. There is nothing either of my biological sons could do... NOTHING... that would make me feel I was "no longer their mother". A true mother/ child bond is eternal and indestructable. I hope you are able to dissolve your adoption, so that these children can return to their real parents, whoever they may be.
~ Sharon

PS As far as the false CPS report... I think it's bizarre that people automatically believe that EVERY biomother who has her children removed is guilty and justly accused, but when CPS's scrutiny falls upon adoptive parents, it's a set-up, a mistake, a terrible injustice! Did it ever occur to any of you that maybe the bioparents were falsely accused in the first place, just like you are now? CPS obviously makes mistakes on a regular basis. And yet, the biomother who may or may not be the victim of false reporting and unjust persecution by CPS is STILL willing to accept her children back with open arms.

[lucyjoy]

But your bio children, if you raised them, would also probably say there was nothing you could do to make you not their mother. Kids with bonding issues often use this as a weapon to hurt their parents.

Whether I agree with the statemant or not, I do very much understand the feelings. Also, if you read some of the failed reunion stories, there are strong feelings about rejection. Why aren't adoptive parents allowed to feel rejected, hurt or angry when their children leave them and make them out to be monsters?

[Missy M]

[quote]Originally posted by lucyjoy
[b]But your bio children, if you raised them, would also probably say there was nothing you could do to make you not their mother. Kids with bonding issues often use this as a weapon to hurt their parents.

Whether I agree with the statemant or not, I do very much understand the feelings. Also, if you read some of the failed reunion stories, there are strong feelings about rejection. Why aren't adoptive parents allowed to feel rejected, hurt or angry when their children leave them and make them out to be monsters?

Lucijoy....Adopted parents ARE allowed to FEEL rejection, just as everyone is. Its not this mothers feelings I objected to its her actions....her words and her behavior in response to her feelings. Heck, I have strong feelings about some of the posts I read here, I am entitled to those, I am not entitled to respond in any way I see fit however. I can't look up someones bio on line fly over and beat the crap out of them. Also, I didn't make her out to be a monster, I simply stated that if misbehaving on a childs part is enough to make you give up on that child whether you had her, adopted her, found her, stole her or made her out of silly putty and crazy glue,something is drastically wrong with your parenting style. If you adopt a child, especially sexually abused removed from her alcoholic drug abusing birth-mother teenaged child, from the foster care system you should be prepared for a rocky ride and be ready to commit for a lifetime. Anything else in my opinion is unacceptable and maybe CPS is late in the investigation. If the first question on an adoption form isn't "What could cause you to give her back," it should be.
And Thank you Sharon for pointing out the obvious....the oldest is a liar NOW abut relayed the truth about her previous home life. Yeah, sure.... SELECTIVE LYING....anyway, it does make it easier to believe.

ps...and Lucy, bio-kids use the same weapon, they just run away to strangers in strange places....the difference is that we as parents don't stoop to their level and threaten to take them there....Missy

[Missy M]

Let me just ask it 'cause I can't stop thinking it: Do adoptive parents make a distinction between what they will and will not tolorate from an adopted child vs a bio-child? Do you see them as kids with options? Lucyjoy, you say....if your kids have never turned their backs on you, never called you a monster....I ask how do you get to the point of having a teenager turn her back on you before something is done? Called me a monster you ask?? Oh these dimpled darlings have called me some M-words all right, then I beat their butts and we had dinner. I wouldn't ask if we should put them back in to a situation that I and the state had already deemed inappropriate and removed them from for goodness sakes!
I just can't stop thinking that something is wrong with this picture.....Missy

[lucyjoy]

There are times when CPS wrongly removes a child from a bio mom and there are abusive adoptive parents.

However, my children have permanant scars on their bodies form their early abuse, documentation of neglect from being left alone for days at a time in dirty places with no running water. My son with RAD tells people wild stories that make no sense and upon investigation are proved to be false. This is still very upsetting to his brothers who have to be questioned by SW because of these lies. The kind of lying severely disturbed children do is not the same kind of lying healthy children do. It's a crazy sort of lying.

Threatening to run away to stranger is not the same as being treated like a temporary family to use or throw out as the child sees fit.

In taking teens or older children, parents do expect problems. But, the training stinks and some of these problems are way beyond what anyone could ever expect.

Also, if my bio child left home and went to live with another family and told lies about me and called social services to try to get the other kids to move with her, I'm not sure how I'd react to that situation. I don't think I'd be feeling loving maternal feelings about that and I may decide to disown or remove myself from that child until she makes some changes.

From Missy
"then I beat their butts and we had dinner."

Then as an adoptive parent you get arrested and your kids removed.

From Missy
"if your kids have never turned their backs on you, never called you a monster....I ask how do you get to the point of having a teenager turn her back on you before something is done? Called me a monster you ask?? Oh these dimpled darlings have called me some M-words all right"

That's a far cry from a child leaving your home, moving in with someone else, cutting you entirely out of their lives, and then claiming you abused them. If kids got thrown out for calling people names, half of them would never get through the front door. Again, you're referring to normal teenage behavior, not the kind we're talking about.

[Missy M]

[i]Originally posted by Lucyjoy:

Also, if my bio child left home and went to live with another family and told lies about me and called social services to try to get the other kids to move with her, I'm not sure how I'd react to that situation. I don't think I'd be feeling loving maternal feelings about that and I may decide to disown or remove myself from that child until she makes some changes. [/b]

Well I don't know if you're a biological mom or not and in reality, it doesn't matter. I simply posted to say that since becoming a mother at age 15, I haven't had one single minute when I haven't had those loving maternal feelings. SOMEWHERE. I don't have an *off-button* for them. I didn't know one could simply decide to disown a child, bio- adopted or anything in between; and as far as removing oneself from the child, here in the state of Texas its called abandonment and they prosecute you for it....severely.
In our home we used the "go to your room" method of punishment, depending on the offense and when that failed we moved on to the with holding of the allowance, followed by the dreaded "you are grounded." Never in 32 years did we disown them, or look for a place to return them; and YES, they pi**ed us off, called us names, spilled milk, ran away, tried beer,talked back tried cigarettes,sex etc. When kids are troubled or in trouble you get help, you don't give up. Simply put, we didn't parent based on our feelings and emotions. We had kids and parented with the *no-limit* approach. Unconditional love I think its called. Oh sure, some days I FELT like kicking the crap out of them, I wanted to pile 'em all up into the back of the van and drive them to the next state...but I didn't. They are my kids, for life....and to adopt with anything less in mind is heartless....Missy

This child that was adopted as an older child already had problems those problems would effect THE REST OF THE FAMILY whether bio or not! Yes boundries are most appropriate. This child opted to go live with bio family that ABUSED her! Right back to where her problems started with! This mom has children that are watching. We are talking about an 18 year old....my rules in my house are at the age of 18 you follow the rules...or leave. I have never had to use that because I have not had such difficult problems with my kids...I hope I don't. I do know people that have,its called tough love. The people that I know that have used tough love have used it on there bio children.....I don't hear anybody crying foul....they got support..its hearbreaking to do and there were times these parents didn't like thier children...but there wasn't a group of people questioning there love for their child. Many bio parents bring their children to court and take out chins on them(child in need of service), they are supported. BUT let aparents attempt to protect themselves and their families everyone is up in arms claiming"bad parent". Have any of you dealt
with severly troubled children... especially when you have younger children that are affected!

Please, please don't say "I would NEVER do that" unless you have been in the exact same position.

I don't mean to start a ruckas here...but why do amom get slammed when presenting a problem.

I know many birthmoms "kick" their own children out for less

Can we try to support instead of slamming!

[Missy M]

You stated in your post that you "know many birthmothers who kick their kids out for less" and my question is are you saying bio-moms or mothers who place (birthmoms)?
You also say the postee was slammed and I ask you where do you sense that? She asked for advice on how to control the investigation of CPS and one of HER solutions was to send the other child back. Now if thats her best answer, her only solution, then I said then and I say now she needs a parenting class. You seem to think that this parenting thing is conditional as do some of the other ADOPTIVE parents who replied. As a b-mom and bio-mom who admittedly has never adopted, I say love and parenting are unconditional. You sign up for the life of the child.
As far as have I parented an troubled child...HECK YES! Now I didn't go to an agency and pick out the child who in all liklihood I knew would have problems, so I had no warning. I am almost sure that it was easy to figure out that bringing in a troubled teen and her sister would have some kind of affect on the family. I think you have to weigh it all out carefully before you agree to adopt them, not decide one day after doing so that its just too hard. Granted, I didn't have that. However, at some point between birth and adulthood there is this stage where the harmones kick in, the boobies grow, the kid suddenly wakes up smarter than the parents, they feel the need to express themselves, and the trouble begins.....its called adolescence. Now if I'd put in a request for and been promised perfect kids, I'd be mad...and I'd ask for a refund. But geez....I just got what I got and I played the hand I was dealt. One got pregnant at 18,one flunked 9th grade, one (the boy) spent 6 days in juvie for car theft...but we didn't kick them out. We also went the *tough love* route, but we didn't abandon them.....we just kept on loving them in spite of the hard ships and heartaches; and ya' know what they all finished college and all are just fine today. I stand by my earlier posts; thats my honest opinion.....Missy
ps and to answer her original question; by all means take her back; tell CPS that you want to give her up to stop the investigation and thereby protect the other kids, I am sure all will be well after that....Missy

[Sharon]

" We are talking about an 18 year old....my rules in my house are at the age of 18 you follow the rules...or leave." ~ DPen

If the child is 18 then why is "reversing the adoption" even an issue? I believe the child in question is sixteen years old, and still in high school. At this age, it is not appropriate to demand that a child "follow the rules or leave". I would think discipline or treatment would be a more appropriate response.
~ Sharon

[Missy M]

Originally posted by Sharon Murphy
" We are talking about an 18 year old....my rules in my house are at the age of 18 you follow the rules...or leave." ~ DPen

If the child is 18 then why is "rescinding the adoption" even an issue? I believe the child in question is sixteen years old, and still in high school. At this age, it is not appropriate to demand that a child "follow the rules or leave". I would think discipline or treatment would be a more appropriate response.
~ Sharon

Having read this thread, I think the 16 year old girl should be handed the car keys and a Visa and TOLD to leave, and to not look back. It is so strange...almost comical that any parent a-parent, birthparent, foster parent, heck babysitter for the night can feel its OK to leave/ abandon/ kick out/take back or otherwise stop parenting your *troubled*child. Where the heck does responsibilty lie?
I still say that if all these rules and conditions apply, these kids should have remained in foster care until parents with tolerence and unconditional love for them are found.....Missy