[whoownsthis]

Can anyone explain what an IQ of 69 means?

I understand that 100 is average, but the child we're considering was tested while taking a medication (Clonidine which slows down the heart and "relaxes" the child) and she has also been diagnosed with Depressive Disorder and Anxiety Disorder, so the person who ran the tests can't be certain that her results are permanent or if they are just environmental (based on little nurturing or reading at home).

She's considered "low-average" in verbal comprehension and processing speed, borderline in (reading) memory, and deficient in word perception, yet her math skills are age-appropriate (except for math comprehension, otherwise known as "word problems").

Any ideas?

[ajjhmf]

My understanding is that 100 is average and anything below 70 is considered Mental Retardation. (Sorry, I don't know if that's the right term or not.) That being said, it's very difficult to test IQ levels on kids in care. Their traumatic background and lack of stability make getting an accurate score difficult. Add into that the different dx our kids have and things can get really weird.

When my son and his brother were placed with us, his brother had tested at a 72. He was described much as your little girl is being decribed. He was very behind in school. He was in the third grade and barely knew his alphabet. However, once we got to know him, we found he was very intelligent. I taught him chess and by the fifth or sixth game I had to stop letting him beat me. It turned out that he needed a good teacher and some time spent getting him interested in learning. In the six months he was here, he was almost reading a grade level and doing grade level math. He's continuing to do well in his new home as well.

Personally, I don't like those tests. I think they really don't work well for kids who are outside the norm. And we all know that our kids fall outside the 'norm.'

Blessings,
Jenny

[lucyjoy]

My son supposedly had a 65IQ when he came here at age 9. However, I read his file and he caused way to much thought out trouble to really have that low of and IQ. I too hate those tests. First off, my sons had nursery rhymes on them. He'd never heard one before. He'd been too buy moving around and in and out of institutions. He tested at 78 after I homeschooled him. This year, he tested at 71. However, he's in regular mainstreamed 7th grade withoug assistance making mostly A's and B's so I highly doubt that's accurate. He also told one of the testers he couldn't test well the day of the test as he didn't have his contacts in(news to me since he doesn't have contacts or glasses)

I wouldn't put too much into what the test says. However, always prepare for the worst case presented just in case it is right.

[Lorraine123]

When my daughter was placed with us we were told she had an iq of 70.

When she began having trouble in school, we had her retested. We wanted to know if her troubles were control issues or actual intelligence issues. Well, the final result was that we will probably never know.

We had her privately tested by a dr we found who specializes in testing hard to test children. He tested her and he said that he watched for manipulation or control during the testing, and he claimed she did her best. Heres the clincher. When we got into the car after the test she told me - "I'm good. Dr. Tim "thought" I did my best".

Her score turned out to be 80, but we will never really know.

[whoownsthis]

Thanks, all. This is what I was thinking--that these IQ tests may not be true indicators of a child's potential once placed in a more proactive home.

This little one is at or slightly below grade level, but seems to have trouble with abstract/complex thought (understanding what has been asked of her). I think we'll try what was recommended on another thread: speak to her clearly and not baby-talk, read to her constantly, have her read to us, and get her into a contained "academic" class (her IEP recommends a classroom with 12 or fewer students, but NOT an emotionally-contained classroom).

She also has anxiety disorder AND depressive disorder, so I'm sure it's all related. Hoping for the best, expecting the worst, and we'll be proactive to reach somewhere in the middle!

[mallory4]

My good friend's son has always tested at around 70, and was identified in Kindergarden as having some learning issues. For example, after two years with the same teacher, if you asked him his teacher's name, he might not be able to tell you. He could NEVER remember multi-step verbal directions like "Go upstairs and get your coat and then tell your brother we are leaving".

He has had some pull-out tutoring throughout his school years. It was hard for him to learn to read, but once he did he read a lot, even though it is slow going for him. Grades 7 and 8 he stayed home and was homeschooled. When he returned to school in 9th grade they said he was too advanced to receive tutoring any more, and my friend had to advocate for him to get it. He gets A's and B's. He is very interested in history and is a very good writer.

I guess I would summarize his situation by saying the things that are hard or impossible for him really are hard, but he has many strengths that will serve him well as an adult. She once feared he would not be able to grow up, earn a living and be independent, but those fears are long gone. His mom's only regret is that she couldn't homeschool him throughout, as the negative treatment he got from peers for being "special ed" has been the most damaging part of the whole thing.

On a lighter note, I have always tested very high on tests, and yet my oldest child was ELEVEN before I figured out that everyone getting ready in the morning would go much more quickly and smoothly if I would simply purchase another comb, so that more than one of us (four girls) could comb our hair at the same time! Test scores aren't everything

[tlc4kidz]

My son's overall IQ was 128 with speed of thought processing being even higher.....he's also barely passing 7th grade. He has sensory integration problems, ADHD, and while I wouldn't trade him for any other kid on the planet, he has been known to be a challenge. I don't put much stock in the numbers either.

[musehealer]

I agree that IQ testing numbers do not give a good indication of everything going on with a child, particularly when other psych or physiological issues present themselves. However, it does give a language that may be used when advocating for services for your child. I have a birth daughter with high IQ (163) but organizational issues (ADD and Exec Functioning) that suppressed her grades, but not IQ test scores. The disconnect between grades and test scores gave me language to use as I advocated for academic support for her (bring up her grades to match what she is capable of achieving, per the test score.)

I have two foster adolescents (19) who have IQ's of 70 and 71 (twins) that we are working to transition into adult mental health services. Their IQ numbers are a significant determinant for services. The present VERY well, which means they are often not given the services they require. They also have a significant overlay of emotional problems given their troubled past (i have had them for 1 and a half years) that will continue to haunt them, but those tests are arbitrary. Adult services have specific benchmarks, like IQ scores that can mean the difference between adequate supports or not qualifying at all.

[whoownsthis]

Here's an update and question that I cross-posted on the Attachment and Bonding thread:

I mentioned earlier that our oldest (just turned 8, repeating 1st grade) had her IQ tested for her IEP last year (score of 69) and again this Fall (70). You (LucyJoy and FH-Lorraine) had both warned me not to put too much stock into the numbers since she's somewhere on the Attachment Disorder spectrum.

Well, here's an example of the way she talks (she asked this tonight at supper of her 4-yr-old sister who received a cupcake at preschool yesterday for Kyle's birthday. He's a child at her preschool.):

"L, what you did have fun with Kyle birthday?" (I think she meant "What fun thing did you do for Kyle's birthday?"

She rarely structures sentences correctly on the first try, in writing OR verbally, and she's in speech and language therapy. She reads pretty well, though, (other than substituting "did" for "do" or "do" for "does," etc.)and receives 100% on all of her spelling tests. The math is a struggle, but it's beginning to click. We're really concerned about the language (ability to communicate). We'll correct her by rephrasing her statement as an intelligible question. Like: "Yes, L, what fun thing DID you DO for Kyle's birthday yesterday?" Occasionally we'll stop her and correct her, and she'll repeat the sentence correctly. But 5 minutes later she'll say it wrong again in conversation with her sisters. Ugh.

Does this sound like attachment, or a true disability? Or maybe it's just that old habits die hard??? Her speech and language special ed teacher said that some of this could be cultural (her foster home was in an economically depressed area, very few high school graduates), but that much of it is due to her IQ and she may not be "educable." ???!!! She does SEEM to be "mildly mentally handicapped" and she has lots of friends, so she's somehow able to express herself with them. I'm just curious, I guess. Thanks!

[roselee]

Most of you seem very aware about IQ scores!!

I am a school psychologist and actually do testing, write up the reports and dx children. Yes, an IQ below 70 is considered to be in the "Mild Mental Retarted range," "Mildly Deficient range," or have a "Cognitive Disability," depending on the state you live in. However, an IQ alone does not determine this label. An indivdual also has to score low on adaptive skills: communication, social skills, daily living skills, etc. That score has to be below 70 as well.

What everyone has stated - YES it is EXTREMELY difficult to label a child who has a history of physical abuse and/or neglect. These children's adaptive skills are likely to be low because of past situations, and the IQ test can be extremely variable for these children more than most depending on the medication, motivation, rapport with the person giving the test (attachment, control or defiance issues), anxiety, etc. These children have much more of the above symptoms then the average child. The only way to determine if the test is accurate is to see what the child's score is after a few years. The difference between 72 and 76 is really not signficant - their are confidence intervals that take into account a child's worst and best day (sorry if that's difficult to understand - the school can actually lay it out for you).

The biggest question for me in my role assessing a foster or adopted child would be the child's educational background. If the child has not had an adequate education at all (moved around a lot, been out of school for a long period of time, etc), then the child really can't be considered for special education because you can't rule out the cause of the problems are not related to educational deprivation (not attending school, frequent school moves, etc). This is a federal law under Individuals with disabilities act and is clearly stated.

However, we (the school team) have gotten around some of those cases in creative ways because we knew the child just wouldn't make it without special ed services. After all, it's not the child's fault s/he is low or struggling.

[qs mom]

My son was tested just after he turned 4. The report states "low average intelligence, however, this may not be an accurate reference as he CHOSE not to partipate in several areas".

So, I don't hold stock in any of it. Any one who has ever met my son comments on how smart he is. Frankly, if not for the emotional and neuological issues, he might be moved up a grade.

[Late Bloomer]

Hi all, our DS (9) has scored in the same range (70) for several years, so the school psych. said it's a pretty reliable indicator. They do consider that MMR, and it helped us get him IEP services. With his grades "adjusted" per the IEP, he's doing well, all A's & B's. And so far there doesn't seem to be much of a stigma attached to the special ed. Although I know that may change next year (4th grade)...

Some days DS won't remember something we've gone over many times, other days he really impresses me with his intelligence, thoughtfulness and memory of details I barely noticed. He has fetal alcohol ("FAS") (among other things - ADHD, ODD, SID), and as I understand it FAS includes "swiss cheese" memory, i.e. some days he can retrieve the info he's stored, some days he can't. It's a permanent neurological thing, so we try to be realistic in not expecting him to "outgrow" this. When he seems to be doing so well that I get irritated at his backsliding the next day, it helps for me to remember this isn't his fault.

I'm kinda forgetful too, so I know you can create strategies to compensate for it, and will try to share those with him.

I've also been reading about neurofeedback and am thinking about trying that with him, to see if it helps him with focus and sleep, since he now needs medication to do both. Anyone tried this?

[mallory4]

LateBloomer, is neurofeedback the same thing as biofeedback? My friend used a computer game-based method of teaching biofeedback for herself and her son.

Actually, she bought the program for her son--She has high blood pressure and anxiety problems, and had taken a few classes in relaxation techniques, and she thought she had already mastered these skills. When she got the program and tried it out before letting her son use it, however, she found out that she was not nearly as effective as she thought.

As I recall from her description, the person playing has to get their heart rate and breathing rates within certain ranges to progress through the game. Using the computer game, she could see for the first time that she was not getting into the acceptable range when she thought she was. So, it was helpful for her.

[Late Bloomer]

Mallory4, as I understand it from just reading, they're pretty much the same except that neurofeedback specifically targets the way the brain is working (which also probably affects how the heartbeat and breathing happens). I think I read where you can train your brain to produce more "alpha" waves (for relaxation), or more "beta" waves (to focus better), things like that. It's encouraging that your friend found it useful. I'm planning to bring it up at our next psychiatrist visit and see what he thinks.

[roselee]

My psychiatrist also said that biofeedback has worked wonderful for some of his clients, especially those with ADHD and/or Anxiety. I was thinking about trying it out for myself! My anxiety levels sometimes hit the roof!!

Good suggestion