[HappyMom29]

Ok --I've read all your posts and maybe it's just late..but let me ask anyway ...

We have been matched with a bmom whose father is Jewish, so the baby (boy) will not be Jewish by Jewish law. Bmom specifially requested a Jewish family to place with though...

Can we have a BRIS at the usual time and then do a formal conversion (mikvah) a little later on? I take it the Bris alone will not effect a full conversion.

We really need to speak with our rabbi.... I don't want to put off the circumcision for medical and other reasons...

[Bonnie S.]

Our son's bris was done when he came home at 2 weeks old. His conversion was not completed until we went to the mikvah. That was done at 5months old. So, no the bris and mikvah do not have to be done at the same time.

[HappyMom29]

That's good to know...

Since relinquishment usually takes place here at earliest possible time (72 hrs)...we'll probably plan "on paper" his bris...and then make a made dash for Costco (!) to help us get it all together in those couple days before the 8th day. Thank g-d for Costco.... (and a few Jewish delis around here) .....and my parents who live in our general neighborhood!! A big help they will certainly be. THey are SO excited.

[Lilifyre]

My son was adopted from India 18 yrs ago. At the time, my (then) husband and I were members of an Orthodox congregation. My son was 14 1/2 mos old when he arrived here in this country. We had our son's bris performed by a urologist from the Orhodox community. This man had been instrumental in performing circumcissions for most of the Russian Jews who emigrated to our community in the last 70's and early 80's and was respected by the Orthodox community.

We later (after the bris healed) took our son to the mikvah where his conversion was officiated by an Orthodox Bet Din (Jewish Court consisting of 3 rabbis). We raised our son to be Jewish and even sent him to an Orthodox Jewish Day School.

About a year before his Bar Mitzvah, the head master of his school came to us and informed us that the Chief Rabbi of the community was questioning my son's conversion. I'm not sure if the problem was that my son was dark skinned, adopted, or that we belonged to a Conservative synagogue instead of an Orthodox one. But this man managed to force the school to discriminate against our son. He would not outright declare that my son was NOT Jewish, but he would not allow him to take part in the morning minyan at the school either. Essentially, he left my son in a state of limbo as to whether he was really a Jew or not. We never did get a decision from this man.

Fortunately, our Conservative synagogue fully embraced my son and included him as any Jewish young man. Finally, about 5 yrs after his Bar Mitzvah, my son did get some closure on this matter from the Orhodox community. He was going to a Shabbaton out of town with the local NCSY (Orthodox youth group). One of the chaperones with the group who was an Orthodox rabbi in the community told my son that he had decided to get a final word on my son's status as a Jew. He had contacted several very well respected Orthodox rabbis who specialized in just such aspects of Jewish law and was told that my son was, is and always will be a Jew by Jewish law. His level of observance, our level of observance, whether he keeps kosher or not, whatever, he IS Jewish!

I'm writing this to let others know that even when you follow the rules to the letter, there may still be bigots who set themselves up as authorities. My son learned a valuable lesson from his experience, one I wish he hadn't had to endure...at least not at the age of 13. But he is stronger for the experience. He is very secure in his Jewishness.

My advice...have your child converted by an Orthodox Bet Din, but expect problems anyway. There will always be those who will question your child's right to be called a Jew, but the Halachah (Jewish Law) will be on your side if you do it according to the book.

[Lilifyre]

I have not seen one issue discussed here. Yes, it is true that if the birthmother is Jewish, the child is Jewish and does not need to be converted. However, there is the matter of the child being a "mamzer" if the birthmother is Jewish. Please don't misunderstand me here. The term "mamzer" is a legal one in Judaism. It does NOT mean that the child carries any kind of blame or is in any way "evil" or "bad". A "mamzer" is a child born to a married Jewish woman but fathered by someone other than her legal husband. By Jewish law, this child is denied many of the privileges and responsibilities of the average Jew. If you are going to raise your child to be Jewish, it is really better for the child that he/she be born of a non-Jewish mother and converted. Reform and Conservative rabbis would probably not have a problem with a child falling into the classification of "mamzer", but if the child should one day decide to take on Orthodox practice, it would be at the least embarassing, and potentially devastating psychologically. I'm not saying I agree with this little legal bigotry, but it does exist and should be considered when adopting a child to be raised as a Jew.

[shalom18]

this is an excellent ongoing discussion here, yes i believe you should do the conversion now to avoid problems for your child later, if your child meets someone later in life and wants to marry and finds out papers are required to prove jewishness it is upsetting and who wants to deal with that later, if you deal with it now your child will be able to choose how religious or not they want to be and if a femaile goes on to want chidlren and for any reason is not considered halakically jewish what a pain to deal with conversion later in life to insure the child will be seen as jewish, i was raised jewish and told birth parents were jewish and married into a religious family before my mom spoke openly about my past now my biggest stress is finding out were they really jewish do i need to convert before we have kids, etc. it really upsets me beacuse i do not know if ther agencies are telling me the truth (agencies lie a lot)and i feel proud to be a jew i wish my reformed parents had thought more about me as a child and had me undergo the conversion even though they were told the mom was jewish because if i had undergone what is a simpler conversion for a child then i would not be stressing now from all the areding i have been doing lately i also believe it will help your child form a better more secure personality knowing they are truly converted no matter what may later be revealed...a wonderful book has in the title adopting a child in the jewish faith i reccommend reading up on it and do for the child even if you are not religious your child will be better off having the choice to be more or less religious later and not having to be in angst over it
take care and good luck and good shabbas

[russiandaughter]

i just found this list, and was happy to see discussion on this topic as i wasn't sure what/if i had to do to be sure my daughter (now 20 mo.) would be acknowledged as jewish. thank you for all the posts above.

My one question is...some of you mentioned a time limit (i.e., it had to be done by her first year or something like that). Is there really a time limit? or is there a different ceremony depending upon the age of the child?

i adopted my daughter at 14 mo of age. the last 6 months have been a whirlwind and i didn't really have time to even think about it, but i do want to get the info. Ideally, i'd do a baby naming on the anniversary of the adoption (for a variety of logistical issues). i suppose i could do the conversion then as well?

thanks a lot
NR

[spaypets]

I'm not positive, but as long as the conversion is done before your daughter is old enough to object, I don't believe there's a time limit. I haven't read of any time constraints, but I would check with your rabbi.

We brought home our daughter in May and converted her in July using our pond instead of a michvah. We didn't have the naming ceremony with our friends and family until October -- we were just too exhausted to host a party until then.

The reason we rushed to do the conversion was that we didn't want it to be too cold to submerge her in our pond. Although I'm by philosophy a Conservative Jew, the closest synagogue with a f-t rabbi is reform, so that was how the ceremony was done. It was very simple with just us, the rabbi and the three witnesses (all were women, btw). It took about 15 minutes and the planning was pretty simple. I simply can't understand why someone who wants to raise a Jewish child wouldn't go ahead and do this -- it was very easy.

BTW, the submersion needs to be done in a natural body of water -- a swimming pool that isn't a designated michvah isn't appropriate, but our farm pond was.

[acgh2003]

I converted to Judaism about 5 years ago, My two biological children both had to go into the michvah. If you want your baby to be excepted into the conservative or orthodox then I would highly reccommend that they go through the michvah. My sons went through, my husband and I decided that this would be better for us. It is not required in reform but definetly if you plan on or ever getting involved with conservative or orthodox synagoges. Call your Rabbi and see what he reccommends.
good luck...

[Mezzo1]

Since we were not sure of the religion of our daughter's bio mother and father, we decided to do a conversion and baby naming. We belong to a conservative synagogue (even though we lean more towards reform), so they required that we take our daughter to the Mikvah. We did agree to having all male rabbis. This is against my personal belief since I believe it shouldn't matter whether the rabbi is male or female, but dh and I didn't want there to be any question in the future that she was 100% Jewish. We are in the process of adopting a 2nd child and will do the same.

So glad there's a place to discuss these things.

Thanks all.

Leslie

[Shai's Mom]

If you need to convert your child, you should look into Orthodox conversion. Why? Because Orthodox conversion is recognized even in Israel, whereas Reform or Conservative conversions are not..

If your child chooses to make Aliya at a later point (stranger things have happened) an Orthodox conversion would not be questioned.

[spaypets]

That in many areas of the US an Orthodox rabbi won't do a conversion unless the family agrees to be orthodoxically observant. So if a family, such as mine, isn't prepared to be orthodox, we CAN'T do an Orthodox conversion. Plus, in my whole state there are only about two maybe three orthodox rabbis all more than an hour away.

So, if my daughter wants to marry Orthodox or move to Israel, she will have to reconvert. If she's that committed, it won't be a burden.

[eroseman]

I'm raising my fost/adopt 3 year old daughter Jewish. I just haven't found a temple that I truly like yet. I was raised conservative. The temple near me is reform. I like the Cantor but don't care to much for the Rabbi. Any suggestions?

Eileen

[Shai's Mom]

Tammy, to qualify for "full tribal membership" your little one needs to undergo conversion. As far as I know it's not a difficult process.

If you choose not to convert the child and the child chooses to live a Jewish life, things like a wedding with a rabbi could get difficult.

My recommendation would be to do an orthodox conversion, since that's recognized by every stream of Judaism, even in Israel.

Good Luck and Mazal Tov!

[sak9645]

... of a synagogue to call the rabbi or cantor and find out how to go about arranging a conversion for a newly adopted child. Call the Reform temple near you, if you wish, or contact a Conservative rabbi in your area since you were raised in that tradition.

He/she will usually ask if you want an Orthodox conversion or not. Even some Reform rabbis have contacts in the Orthodox community and can tell you whether the local Orthodox rabbis will convert children of non-Orthodox parents. They can also tell you whom to call, if they know an Orthodox rabbi nearby who will handle such conversions and make the mikvah arrangements.

If you are comfortable with Reform or Conservative rabbis officiating, see whether the rabbi you call is willing to do the conversion, and where he/she tends to conduct them. Remember that he/she will need to find a total of three rabbis to participate -- he/she may ask you if you object to female rabbis participating -- and that it may not be easy to find three who can meet at a particular time. In big cities, it may also be difficult to get onto the schedule of a non-Orthodox mikvah. I live in the DC area, which has a mikvah run by a Conservative synagogue, and there are an amazing number of Reform and Conservative families arranging conversions for adopted children.

The rabbi is likely to refer you to his/her secretary to handle matters like telling you the customary fee for the rabbis and the mikvah.

If there is nowhere in town that you can go for a non-Orthodox conversion, or for an Orthodox conversion of a child who will be raised in a non-Orthodox home, the rabbi can usually suggest someone to call in the nearest big city to you.

Sharon