[spaypets]

Ok, please tell me if I'm being too careless with my DD....

My brother's family is joining us for the Passover seder (the big meal to rember the Exodus from Egypt). They're family includes an almost 6 year old and almost 3 year old. My SIL emails me and asks if I make my charoset with wine. Charoset is a dish that is part of the ceremony. It's made with nuts, apples (or other fruit, though apples are traditional), honey, wine (Maneschevitz (sp)--not much alcohol) and cinnamon. I said yes, but that I only use a couple of tablespoons to give it the right texture -- it's supposed to symbolize the mortar used by the enslaved Israelites. Anyway I served it to DD last year, who was then 2, now 3, with no problems (although, truthfully, she might not have eaten it).

Well, she's bringing her own alcohol free (I actually thought she'd balk at the nuts -- she won't let her kids have nuts until they're 3). I have grape juice for the kids to drink during the service, but it simply never occurred to me to be worried about a tiny bit of wine in the charoset?

So here's my question--am I wrong for being unconcerned about the wine in the charoset for my dd? And while we're on the topic--at what age do you start having the children have wine at Shabbat (Sabbath) and other festivals? I _know_ that I was having wine by the time I was 6 -- what I can't remember is whether I was 4.

[echaos]

Spay, I'm not Jewish so I can't comment on the ceremony part of things.

However, my French Canadian parents made their own wine (the stomp on the grapes way, not the buy the box at the grocery store way ) and they had it with dinner every night. By the time I was 5-6 I had a glass too! Of course my glass was the smallest of liquor glasses they could find which was about the size of a thimble! No harm came to me.

As a Catholic I had my First Communion when I was 8ish (I think.....) and had a sip of wine at Communion at every Mass after that.

I wouldn't worry about the Charoset. Even if you put in 1/2 cup, and it was then served equally between 7 people, each person only gets 1/14 of a cup... and I have no idea how much that is... but not much!

On a side note, Liam will now only drink "blue coffee" and not milk!! It involves filling his sippy cup with milk, adding a drop of blue food colouring and a drop of coffee... and he knows if I just try to pretend with the coffee.... Am I an indulgent parent or what????

[Volfe]

Spaypets - do you cook it? I"m unfamiliar with the dishes but at the temple I worked at, most of the children were involved in the rituals with small bits of Maneshevitz (sp?) It truly is low-alcohol and very sweet. Judaism is their culture and the children I met were all proud members of the temple.
and very involved.

So, I would not be alarmed to have your dd experience that 'wine'. I have been told that it is a good idea to hide it from teens though.

Maia

[spaypets]

No, charoset isn't cooked, so there is some alcohol in it, but honestly, I think there's more alcohol in vanilla extract used in desserts.

LOL, Andy, about the blue coffee! In responding to SIL, I thought to myself that I was more concerned about DD eating the caffeine in the chocolate for dessert than the tiny bit of wine in the charoset.

[DianeS]

I am also not Jewish, but I wouldn't worry about that little bit of wine. Heck, cough medicine probably has more alcohol in it! And like you said, so does vanilla flavoring. That teensy tinsy bit is barely going to be noticed by anyone not paying attention, and it's certainly not enough to give anyone even a buzz.

But I also wouldn't worry about someone bringing their non-alcohol version. Different strokes for different folks!

[Shoshana]

Spay, I'd make it the traditional way, too. Hmmm, I remember reading eons ago research about cultural differences in alcoholism. Seems like rates are low for Jews and Italians. Hypothesis is that the alcohol usage is modeled by parents in healthy environment and used as part of religious ritual. Much better ideal that making it such a 'no no' that it assumes more importance/lethality than necessary.

And, Andy, ummm, the study did not include coffee spiked with blueberry liqueur.

[Shai's Mom]

I am considered a bit of an over-protective Mom (ahem..), but I have no problem with my son tasting a bit of charoset made with wine. I feel it's such a small amount, it can't harm him.

Hag Sameach le Kulam

Happy Holiday everyone!

[spaypets]

Shai--at what age do you think I should have my daughter have sweet wine on Shabbat?

[Shai's Mom]

Originally Posted by spaypets

Shai--at what age do you think I should have my daughter have sweet wine on Shabbat?

When my son was younger he got a drop of Kiddush wine on a fingertip. Now he is allowed a small sip from the cup. He likes the ritual and is very serious about his "part".

He understands very well that this is a special event and he's not allowed to "sample" any other alcoholic beverages.

Of course there are some people who will disagree with me, but, I believe that a common sense approach is the best way. A tiny sip of Kiddush wine is not harmful and I can teach my son that wine is not something that needs to be guzzled. By the way, at the Seder he's getting sweet grape JUICE.

I remember that during one discussion session at my temple in the US the subject of alcoholism came up. The Rabbi pointed out that in general there is a lower percentage of alcoholism in Jews. In his opinion part of the reason for this is that in Judaism wine (alcohol) isn't demonized and classified as something evil to be avoided at all cost. On the contrary, it is part of our religious life. If children are familiar with wine, the lure of the forbidden isn't as strong. That was his theory. Maybe it holds water, maybe it doesn't.

Again, Hag Pesach Sameach v'kasher

[spaypets]

Happy Pesach!

[lisa in venice]

No longer a practicing Jew (my dad converted in the '60's, made for an interesting childhood, you should hear my Hebrew school stories at the Hasidic Yeshiva school ) but we have Shabbat at our house at least once a month with good friends. I have given a sip of wine to all of my kids during the blessings and now the older ones (13 and 16 get their own glass) When those same friends were remodling we had the Seder at my house and all of the kids (including my two year old) had those teeny-tiny glasses for the ceremony. I don't believe a sip or two of wine is harmful especially at the table with family as part of a very meaningful ceremony.

My kids have been taking communion since they were about 3 and none of them is sneaking sacrimental wine. I think your SIL is a bit over the top but this is coming from a mom who allows her kids to have wine with dinner.

lisa

[Livingmydream]

I went to a community Seder at Chabad. they served 4% and 6% wine. Regular is 12%! There were kids drinking it, mine drank the Kedem. They did eat the charoset however, but neither of them really like it, so just had a little tated during the seder. My kids go to a day school. I did the preparation for model seder which included charoset for 100. I used Kedem grape juice for that.
I think you need to do whatever you are comfotable in doing. During Shabbos, my kids don't do wine, but I never really gave it any thought until now!

[Kellster]

Unless your kids would eat a bucket full of Charoseth, there would be little chance of them even getting tipsy, let alone alcohol poisoning. I would allow mine to even sip real wine for kiddush (or at the Seders) if they liked it, but mine take one whiff and make a "blech" face! LOL I agree that by not making alcohol a "forbidden fruit", it never becomes a problem. My parents always let us have wine at the table, so when my friends thought it was a big thrill to drink beer, I was unimpressed and never had any problems with drinking. I plan to do the same with our kids.

I hope that everyone had a wonderful Pesach! I am not sorry that it ends tomorrow, however. Think about it- what is matza? Flour and water. Hmmm, let's live on baked paste for a week and see how we feel... EWWW! LOL)

Kelly

[nugget]

Wanted to add my two cents.
While I do not practice any traditions now, I just love Passover!! And as far as when to start allowing wine, I couldn't tell you how old I was. But with my neice and nephew, as soon as they asked, they were allowed a taste. I believe my nephew took a taste at four and my neice closer to six.
It's a sip, a tiny bit in traditional food, and it's about tradition. I think you should just do what ever makes you comfortable. Maybe next year your SIL can bring her own versions of dishes that she is not comfortable with.

Thanks for posting this thread. It brought me back to very happy memories of Sedar!!
Wendy

[spaypets]

Our Pesach was wonderful and I'm looking forward to it ending. Because I have practically a full bottle of Manischewitz left from the splash I put in the Charosets (DH and I drink much better wine at Shabbat) we decided we might as well let DD have a taste at shabbat. So we gave her some (watered down) and she liked it and suffered no ill effects.