[Archive]

Originally Posted By Kim

I've noticed in nearly every post at this forum there is names of agencies being dropped.

I don't know if this will be of any help to any of you.. but since $$$$$ seem to be of importance to many people wishing to adopt, and it often prevents people from pursuing adoption, I feel an obligation to come forward and assure you that you DO NOT need an agency to adopt internationally.. although it is OBVIOUSLY less chaotic or complicated when you have an agency behind you, taking care of the details.

We completed our own adoption in Panama with only a Panamanian attorney. The only pitfall we have run into w/regard to not using an agency is that we cannot qualify for the Federal Employees Adoption Reimbursement Program. But we do qualify for the tax return (up to $5000).

The battle we (those of us adopting in Panama) entered into with the Dept. of Finance did, however, lead the govt. to begin supporting the reimbursement even when a U.S. Adoption Agency was not involved, due to the HAGUE CONVENTION AGREEMENT:
http://travel.state.gov/hague_foreign_docs.html

This agreement includes various countries, and assures U.S.Citizens that all foreign legal documents bearing the Apostilla Stamp (so easy get) will be treated as if it were handled by a U.S. Court.

If you are adopting in Central America (or Mexico/South America), I URGE YOU TO OBTAIN AN APOSTILLA STAMP on your finalized adoption decree and new birth certificate.

You will get the stamp from either the Secretary General's Office of the court house where you are doing the adoption from or from the Foreign Ministry Office in that city.

Anyway... We never used an agency. The only purpose of the agency is to link you up w/the orphanage or children's home and assist w/the homestudies and INS documents.

We did it all ourselves, and found it all to be quite simple, although tedious and lengthy at times.

Our adoption cost $2500. Period. That was the attorney fee!
We had to get certain documents certified, translated, etc etc... and of course they had varios expenses, however, it was minimal and didn't break our checkbook.

We would have paid ANY amount, of course, to adopt our daughter. HOWEVER... we are not rich by ANY means, and had we gone through an agency and been forced to pay $20,000-$30,000, there's no way we could have done it.

I have found that the U.S. Embassies in the Central American countries can provide names of local attornies who handle adoptions. Not to mention you can find them online as well.

Do all the work you can from home (authentification of documents.. marriage license/birth certificates, homestudy, and translations), and from that point your money will be spent on the attorney, telephone bills, and travel to the country.

I had no idea how much people were paying for international adoptions until I returned to the States (I lived in Panama for 3 years, working at a local orphanage for 2 of those years). It's outrageous. I know how much having a child to love means to people, and I'm sure I would spare no effort to adopt in such a situation, but there are unwanted children ABOUND all over the world... and I can venture to guess that an agency isn't always required.

Best Wishes to Everyone out there trying to adopt internationally....
~Kim

[Archive]

Originally Posted By Sharon

One problem with independent adoptions is that unscrupulous people sometimes begin charging outrageous fees that don't go to help children, or engage in practices such as baby-buying and bribery of officials. As a result, some countries have started to ban independent adoptions.

China used to allow independent adoptions, directly and through lawyers and facilitators. Worried about the problem, however, it stopped doing so.

Today, all overseas adoptions are handled directly by a central government agency in Beijing. NO ONE, not a lawyer, not a private citizen, not even an agency can approach an orphanage or birthmother directly to do an international adoption. Even if someone manages to obtain a child, he will not be able to get her out of the country without proof that Beijing authorized the adoption.

And the agency in Beijing will deal only with agencies that are licensed by the U.S. or certain other countries. These agencies must also be accredited by China. China will "pull" the accreditation if an agency acts improperly. Again, if an adoption doesn't go through these channels, the U.S. government will refuse to give the child a visa to enter the U.S.

While this may make the process a little more bureaucratic and, possibly a little more costly, it gives a lot of people the security of knowing that their children were legally free for adoption and adopted in an ethical manner. Today, an adoption from China costs between $15,000 and $20,000 including everything. That means even the travel, the U.S. government fees, etc.

Most of the agencies working with China are extremely ethical. They tend to put a portion of their fees to use in supporting child welfare projects around the world, too. As an example, the agency I used has supported an orphanage in Viet Nam and social welfare programs, especially for disabled children who won't be adopted, in India and Korea. Some will offer a sliding scale to adoptive parents.

The agencies often do a great job in helping families prepare for parenthood, in facilitating travel arrangements, in dealing with "glitches" that may occur, etc. I certainly appreciated the service and support that my agency gave me, and wouldn't do an adoption any other way.

[Archive]

Originally Posted By Kim

I can see why China has had to change their policies on adoption... the thousands of people who caught on to the abundance of "orphaned" children (mostly girls, right?)not only caught the eyes of people who desperately wanted a child to love, but also attracted the attention of crooked lawyers and agencies. The orphanages were FLOODED with inquiries, and it got to be too much. I remember when Kathy Lee Gifford's attempt to adopt in China had been turned down by the Chinese Govt. because the laws had just changed there, and she was as required as anyone else to go through the agencies that they authorized.

So.. for China, it was the safest bet to assure the placement of the children into the right hands.

As for Central America, however, I do know that agencies in France and Spain make regular contact with the orphanages.
The orphanage where I volunteered at had routine contact with an agency in those two countries. HOWEVER.. the agencies seemed to lead their clients the wrong way.. not fully informing them of the laws there. I met SEVERAL couples who flew all the way to Panama, thinking they were going to take home "their baby" only to have to turn around and go home because their agency failed to realize that the children must be declared legally abandoned by the courts FIRST.. AND... the child has to have been in an institution for atleast 6 months, with no family contact, before they can be declared abandoned. The birth mother must be notified by the court AND this only applies when there is no birth father listed on the birth certificate.

IF the child was abandoned, for example, on the street... the child cannot be declared abandoned until a full investigation has been done, which can take a LONG time (to the detriment of the child, unfortunately).

Private adoptions are definitely OUT OF THE QUESTION in Panama. Too risky, plus you have to live IN COUNTRY, with the child residing with you, no less than 2 years before the child can be issued a VISA by INS.

Our adoption was considered a "relinquishment". INS still considered our daughter an "orphan", but it bordered on a private adoption because we were in Family Court and not the Minor's Court. So that was sort of a battle in itself. But it all worked out in the end, as we were given custody of our daughter VIA the orphanage, and it appeared that way on our legal guardianship papers. The fact that she was in an orphanage was all INS needed to know, plus the birth mother was "destitute" by Panamanian standards (which is pretty darn bad).

If I had it to do all over again, I would not go through an agency myself UNLESS, as I stated in my first post, it was with a communist or non-NATO country. There are NO guarantees, and you have basically no rights as an American Citizen. With allied countries, they are all usually participants in the HAGUE CONVENTION AGREEMENT, and therefore legal processes are more honorable, so to say, and you do have SOME rights.

ANYWAY... there are pros and cons with both sides of this issue. I would only do an independent adoption in countries such as Panama/Central America where it is more standard practice. We would never have been able to come up with the money to do an adoption through an agency.

Also.. one last point.. we gave money, food, clothing, and other "material" donations to the orphanage where our daughter lived on a regular basis (and still do), and we had the satisfaction of KNOWING where our donation went AND witnessing the use of our donations by them. It was a true blessing.

Ciao!

[Archive]

Originally Posted By Nancy Lou

Kim, thanks for the info. I concur as I volunteered ay an orphanage in Mexico and saw the abundance of children needing homes. We adopted our first son in Guatemala using an excellent agency in California. We will probably also use an agency for convenience for our second adoption in South America. However, I agree with you that an agency is not required in a lot of situations and if money is a barrier than not using an agency might be considered. I hope also people realize that if money is a barrier that there are significant (possibly $10,000 and more) tax savings in adoption tax credits etc. available to many!!! Check it out.

[Archive]

Originally Posted By Erin

I was reading the message board from Kim concerning her independent adoption in Panama. We have been researching an independent adoption in Ukraine, and wonder if there are similarities although it does not appear there are. I would like to email you to ask questions concerning your process if that would be ok with you. It seems that I only hear negative comments about using agencies in the US for international adoptions. It is very frustrating.

[Wendy]

We are in the middle of adopting through an agency and
I can relate to the woes of the expense involved. We
chose this route because we had no clue how to get
started. Now that we know the process and are all too
familiar with the paperwork, we have considered adopting
again without the help of an agency. We were considering
Belize or Honduras, maybe even Guatemala if it is possible.
I would like to talk to you more about how to do this
independently--it is so scary!! If you don't mind, could you
e-mail me some advice on how to get started--who to talk
to about getting names of lawyers, etc. Thanks!!

wendybear2@excite.com

Wendy

[gkasche]

I would like to say that not all agency adoptions are costly. I have adopted twice now from India using an agency and paid less than Kim each time and that included airfare. Karen

[JPDakota]

Using and agency? Not using an agency? It was tough for us because of the costs. We're working on a Guatemalan adoption, and the costs are very high. We spoke in person with several couples who adopted using an agency. While they did not recommend their agencies, they did recommend using an agency. Our thought is this: use an agency the first time and then pursue a private adoption for a second child. I really admire anyone bright enough and brave enough to do a first adoption without the support of an agency. We are neither, so this first adoption will be expensive. Once it is over and we have our son home, we'll be all over pursuing a second adoption without an agency. Believe me, we're keeping very careful notes and intend to build a relationship with the foster home and attorney from Guatemala who handle our case. We'd like to make them allies.
Anyway, we don't have the strength to do this on our own, at least not the first time.

[reneetaylor]

Kim, are you still out there? I would like more info on how you found attorney names and how you made your initial contacts, etc. Can you provide any info?

Thanks,

[USMCCOUPLE]

Kim, we are attempting to do the same thing you did. Except our attorney is doing it for free cause she is family! Can you please email us, I have a couple of questions...

Thanks
smr2929@msn.com

[armyfam]

Our story is pretty long but here goes:

I'm originally from El Salvador, we were stationed in Guatemala last year. While visiting distant relatives in El Sal, we were approached by my mother's elderly aunt, she asked us to "please, please" adopt her great granddaughter. We then met a shy and quiet 4 year old (Laura) who's mother was 15 when she had her and now had 2 other little boys to care for. Laura's mother was physically abusive and did not seem to care about her. After talking to Laura's mother, who had been trying to give Laura away since the day she was born, we decided to go ahead and try to adopt. I had no clue as to how to get started, so we called the american embassy there and told them our situation (Sep 2001). They gave me a list of lawyers they dealt with regularly. Some of these lawyers, upon discovering we were american wanted to charge us up to $10,000 (less than agencies, but still too much for us). the last lawyer on our list turned out to be God sent. I explained our situation to her, she gave me a price of $2500. We of course took care of all the paperwork and fees for INS, homestudies (there was an american social worker/missionary in Guatemala that was authorized to this), psychological studies..etc. It was very time consuming, and took alot of work. Friends in the consular section of the embassy in Guatemala helped me out each step of the way. My lawyer also gave me a list of all required paperwork, it was extra difficult because we were americans living in Guatemala, trying to adopt in El Salvador! We had to get seals from both govts. We would not have been able to do this on our own had we been in the states. It was easy to travel back and forth and check on things. I wanted to remove Laura from that household as soon as possible, and she was allowed to come live with us. We finished all our paperwork, and submitted our I-600 in Feb 2002 (it took that long to get everything done!) when it was time to come back to the states, I did not want her to go back to her abusive household, so I had to find a foster family who would take care of her. Fortunately, a relative of my best friend (also Salvadoran) was more than happy to help me out. We left last June and Laura is still there. Why the delay? INS..After waiting 4 months, I called their field offices, they said our fingerprints weren't back. Impossible to believe since our job required secret clearances from the military to work down there in the first place, FBI had already done all that. Two months after that I called again, this time they told me that my social worker had to do an adendum for a mistake in the homestudy. So we had to take care of that, and finally this past December, I was told it was approved and that it would be forwarded to the offices in El Sal. Once that was done, the courts in El Sal got the ball rolling. I've been told that I would be able to pick my daughter up in June/July time frame. Of course I'm not holding my breath, I now know you can't do anything but wait and hope. I talk to my daughter often. She sounds very happy and I always tell her how much I love her and can't wait to bring her to her new home. I know she's become attached to her foster family and I hate that she's going to hurt when she's separated from them. I guess what I'm trying to say is that we're lucky our lawyer has turned out honest and faithful, it's not always the case. And even though we've had no major problems (as of yet anyway), the risk is not worth the money you're saving, I recommend everyone look into finding an honest and reliable adoption agency. Money should not be an obstacle when adopting, unfortunately it's sometimes the deciding factor.

[waitingmommy]

Hi, I am interested in finding out more on independent Guatemalan adoption. I have found a great lady that helps do adoption w/o agency for the Ukraine but am looking for the same type of adoption assistance for Guatemala. Anybody know of anyone?? We are short on finances but our hearts are wanting to adopt.
Thanks,
Amy

[v_kats]

waitingmommy,

Ukraine is one of the few countries endorsing independent adoptions. That is, it doesn't recognize or accredit American agencies, and either way you go to adopt, Ukrainian authorities still consider you an "independent" adopter.

However, it makes a significant difference which facilitator you use there. Some ask very little up front, but once you get in-country, more fees start piling up unexpectedly -- for longer stay, lawyers hired to expedite court date, additional trip required if 30 days are not waived, etc. Others pay higher all-inclusive fees, and never go out of their budget with smooth and short adoption trips.

There are several independent facilitation options when going to Ukraine, so make sure to ask for recent references and compare total costs minus homestudy (which may vary significantly from state to state).

Good luck,
Victoria

[DaniJ]

We are considering adopting a toddler (or two!) from Russia through an agency. My husband has "sticker shock" as he describes it ($28k for two!!) I haven't seen any comments about Russia's laws on independant adoption, anyone know?

[v_kats]

DaniJ,

I've been in contact with two facilitators who work in regions still conducting independent adoptions. However, there are no guarantees this would not be curbed in the future.

Sincerely,
Victoria