[KoSaynourath]

Hi all,

I've typed too many emails already so I'll try to make this brief. My wife and I have two children ages 4 and 5. She's a natural born citizen and I'm a naturalized citizen born in Laos. Our home is Colorado but we've been living in Laos for 7 months, have plane tickets to come back home May 2. Just found out my cousin is having her third baby around May 29 and will abandon the child here in Laos. Family doesn't want to get involved but we stepped in and said we want to adopt the child.

Here's the dilemma.
1. We leave before the baby is born unless there's a possible way to get our home study done in Laos. We'll be willing to stay longer even though work is expecting us back. Problem is, we're not established in Laos, we're just living with cousins. Should we wait to go back home first where we have jobs and a home to go to?

2. If we go home, we want to find an agency that only does home studies(still researching, waiting for emails responses). We already have the child picked out and don't need the other resources that agencies offer. Anyways, Laos is non Hague and I can't find any agencies that work with Laos. Are there any that only do home studies?

3. Do international relative adoptions work the same way as any other conventional international adoptions?

Thank you for any advice.

Ko & Melissa

[sak9645]

1. You cannot have your homestudy done in Laos. The homestudy must be done where you actually will live with your child. Aside from preparing you for the challenges of parenting an adopted child, the homestudy process involves ensuring that your home provides a safe and welcoming environment for the child.

2. There are many homestudy-only agencies. And many agencies that do placements will also work with clients who only need homestudies. Just be sure to pick a homestudy agency that is licensed to do them in your state, and that has experience with international adoption of relatives. A good place to start is the website of the Joint Council on International Children's Services, which probably has member agencies in your state, both homestudy-only and placement and/or homestudy agencies.

3. In general, international adoption of relatives works the same way as other international adoptions. You need a homestudy in your state of residence; USCIS certification that you are approved to bring an adopted child into the U.S.; USCIS recognition that the child meets the Immigration and Nationality Act definition of an "eligible orphan" and that the adoption was legal and ethical under the foreign country's rules; and foreign country finalization (or, in a few countries, guardianship for the purpose of finalization in the U.S.)

In a non-Hague adoption, if the child qualifies for an IR-3visa, he/she will become a citizen as soon as you enter the U.S. with him/her, and you will get a certificate of citizenship automatically in the mail; there is no federal requirement for readoption in your state, though your state may require it. If he/she qualifies for an IR-4 visa, you will need to adopt, readopt, or do a recognition in your state before automatic citizenship takes effect, and you must then apply for a certificate of citizenship.

Always remember that, even if the child is a relative, the "orphan definition" applies in non-Hague cases. In other words, the child cannot have been living with two parents at the time of adoption.

Do be aware that the adoption and immigration process can be lengthy, even with relative adoptions. You will probably need to arrange for someone to care for the child in Laos for several months, while you come home and work on the adoption process. Then, you will have to travel back to Laos to adopt and immigrate the child.

Sharon

[KoSaynourath]

Thank you for the info, Sharon. We've accumulated so much info this past week. We've been in contact through emails with an Immigration Services Officer from USCIS and she has been very helpful. We've also emailed a few adoption agencies in Colorado for home studies but no responses yet. We'll spend the next week researching and contacting more.

We also coincidentally met a mother of one of my daughter's school friends who works for Save Our Children here in Laos that who knows people who have adopted in Laos. One couple is British and although they've legally adopted the child here in Laos, they are unable to bring the child to England because England doesn't recognize Lao adoptions since it's non-Hague. Now they are getting immigration lawyers involved. She also knows a US family who've successfully adopted two Lao children. She's trying to see if they are open to discuss there adoption ordeal with us. From what she has said about the couple, they might not be willing to be open about there adoption.

I guess the only question we have not is how to classify a child as an orphan. There are no orphanages in Laos. My cousin who's having the baby, her sister and her husband has said that if we want to adopt the child, they will care for the child until we get the adoption processed. If the baby's mother and her off and on husband relinquished all the parental rights and her sister doesn't legally adopt the child, only care for it, I guess this meets the requirements of an orphan?

I guess we're just worried that after we spend thousands of dollars on home study, I-600A, plane tickets to come to Laos again, legally adopting the child in Laos, that after all that, our I-600 petition may still not be accepted. Even if it were accepted, we're worried that the US may still deny an immigrant visa for the child.

Another question. Because of work and children's school, is it common or possible for only one parent to travel and complete the adoption as long as all the paperwork and approvals are in order? Will this make it more difficult if only one of us travels to Laos to complete the process.

Thanks again for all the info.

[sak9645]

1. You can read the USCIS discussion of the "orphan definition" on the agency's website. Basically, you cannot get an adoption visa to immigrate any child that has been living with two parents. The child to be adopted must be one of the following:

a. Living with a single parent who cannot provide care at a level considered normal IN THAT COUNTRY (not by U.S. standards). The U.S. can get sticky about how to define single parent; as an example, it has tried to deny approval to children living with their bio mother and her new boyfriend, saying that the boyfriend must be considered a stepfather. Also, if the biological father contributes to the support of the child, but does not live with the mother, this can also be construed as a situation with two involved parents. You can often appeal, but it will take time.

b. The child of two deceased parents (death certificates needed).

c. An abandoned child whose parents are unknown or non-locatable.

d. A child who has been removed from his/her home by a legitimate government agency, for cause such as abuse or neglect, with termination of parental rights.

e. A child who has been legally relinquished to an orphanage or other institution, if there has been no contact between child and parent during the time he/she was relinquished. This is another one where the USCIS can get sticky, because there have been some fraudulent situations where a parent made a sham relinquishment to an orphanage just to make the child eligible for an adoption visa to go to relatives in the U.S. but had no intention of permanently relinquishing him/her.

The orphan definition is always problematic. This issue does not generally apply to Hague adoptions, but it definitely comes up in many non-Hague adoptions, especially in countries where the USCIS has seen a variety of fraudulent attempts to secure an adoption visa. It sounds as if your cousin's child WOULD qualify, but you need to discuss this with an adoption/immigration attorney.

2. The child must be adopted under the rules of his/her country of citizenship. Some countries require both parents to travel at least once, or to stay for months. Others allow one parent to travel, where necessary, for at least some parts of the process. A few even allow escort.

As an example, China requires just one trip of 10-14 days, and either one spouse or both spouses may travel. Russia is currently requiring anywhere from 2-4 trips to the country, with both parents present for at least part of the process -- for example, during the court date.

According to the U.S. State Department, at adoption.state.gov, adoption from Laos can take a long time, and some families actually spend 18-24 months IN LAOS, going through the approval process. Presumably, this will be less for relatives, but there is no clear time frame or specification of whether one spouse in a two parent family can do all the travel. You will have to work with Laotian authorities to determine what travel is necessary.

Remember that you don't just travel to "pick up" your child. A foreign government may require your presence for a "bonding period", where you stay with the child or visit the child daily, before allowing finalization. It may also require multiple trips -- for example, one for bonding and one for the court proceedings (which can occur months later). In some countries, even when finalization has occurred, the judge can impose a waiting period of ten days or so before you can leave the child's city. Also, the U.S. Embassy in the foreign country may issue a visa in a matter of days, if the paperwork is in order, but if there are concerns about the validity of documents, the orphan definition, etc., it could take weeks or months for a visa to be issued.

Sharon

[KoSaynourath]

Ideally, I wouldn't even leave Laos in the first place, but have to in order to get the home study done. My intention was never to travel back to Laos to just "pick up" the child. As it is, I am going to travel alone back to Laos and start legalization of the adoption once I have the I-600A approval.

I know it all depends on the agency, how many cases they are working on at the time and such, but typically how long does a home study take as long as we have all the documents the require? How long does an I-600A approval take once we submit the form?

Thanks again.

[sak9645]

Homestudies can get done in a month, if things like the child abuse clearance and the references come back in a timely manner and appointments can be scheduled easily. However, I've seen them take as long as three months, because of states that are slow to return child abuse clearances, requirements for preadoption classes, and so on.

The I-600A processing time varies by USCIS office. Some turn around I-600s in a few weeks, while others spend a few months on them. Remember that, even if you submit the I-600A without the homestudy report initially (which I don't recommend), no processing will occur until the USCIS receives your homestudy report.

Sharon

[KoSaynourath]

We've received two replies from agencies so far. One does only domestic adoptions so they would not be able to help. The other answered my inquiries and gave a list of their fees. On their list is an application fee (obviously) and the fee for the homestudy includes a required training fee. Is this just a way for them to make more money or is there really training as required by the state. There's also coordination fees (USCIS and Laos placement/attorney fees). From my understanding, once the homestudy is done, we can submit the I-600A to USCIS on our own and we would be on our own working with Laos. The last fee is for post placement reports. Is that really required?

Simply, we just want the homestudy, nothing more. The way we look at it is the more money we spend on training and other unnecessary fees, the less we will have for the child. Are we being unreasonable to request only a homestudy. If so, please tell me and I would be happy to do whatever is required of us.

Thanks again for your responses, Sharon. Your info is helping us.

Ko

[sak9645]

In the past decade, there has been a new push for mandatory parent preparation courses. There is compelling evidence that too many families go into adoption without an adequate understanding of the adoption process, and, more importantly, without a good understanding of the challenges of parenting an adopted child. Adoption professionals believe that good parent education would help to reduce the frequency of adoption disruptions and dissolutions, reduce the likelihood that an adoption will strain a marriage to the breaking point, and potentially reduce the incidence of cases of child abuse by overwhelmed and angry parents.

All Hague adoptions now require a MINIMUM of ten hours of parent preparation classes, separate from the actual homestudy, covering a very specific set of topics. Many states, as well as homestudy and placement agencies, are beginning to require such training for non-Hague adoptions, as well, because they recognize that the Hague requirements represent current thinking on "best practices" in adoption. However, some states have ALWAYS had pre-adoption training requirements for all families or for families doing certain types of adoption. As an example, Illinois has always required it for internationally adoptive parents, who must actually obtain a foster parent license as part of the adoption process.

Agencies do vary in terms of how families may meet their education requirements. Some homestudy agencies, wanting to control the quality of the program, insist on in-person classes conducted by the agency. You would then pay the agency for these classes. However, many agencies do allow families to choose a class from a list of approved courses offered either on-line or in-person, by a variety of organizations. You would then pay the organization providing the classes.

While some of the material covered in classes may be irrelevant to relative adoptions -- as an example, topics related to parenting a child of another race -- there is often plenty of material that would be relevant, regardless of the type of adoption that you are doing.

In general, course fees tend to be fairly modest, in the overall scheme of things. I would urge you not to quibble about them, and to sign up with a homestudy agency as soon as possible.

In terms of finding a homestudy agency, one good place to look is the website of the Joint Council on International Children's Services, which has some agencies that do only homestudies, some agencies that do only placements, and some agencies that do both homestudies (for their own placement clients and for people who are NOT doing their placements through the agency). Do consider both homestudy-only agencies AND those that do both homestudies and international placements, since the latter will often have the most experience in doing homestudies that meet foreign country and USCIS requirements.

Sharon

[questioning]

Originally Posted by KoSaynourath

We also coincidentally met a mother of one of my daughter's school friends who works for Save Our Children here in Laos that who knows people who have adopted in Laos. One couple is British and although they've legally adopted the child here in Laos, they are unable to bring the child to England because England doesn't recognize Lao adoptions since it's non-Hague. Now they are getting immigration lawyers involved.

Hague countries recognise adoptions from non-Hague countries - there will be other reasons for this to happen, it will not be purely because of the non-Hague aspect. Laos is not on the UK list of designated countries so it may be a re-adoption issue, but like in the US, if you live in a European country you need your home study to be approved by the country you live in, and I have heard of people not being aware of this and assuming they could just adopt overseas and it would be fine - and it isn't always.

[sak9645]

I think that it's really important to understand that international adoption involves several separate processes, not just "adoption".

Adoption is just one process, and involves the foreign country agreeing to place a child with you. Each country has its own requirements, although all countries require a homestudy from the location where you will actually be parenting the child. Remember that, just because you adopt under a foreign country's laws does NOT mean that you necessarily will be able to bring your child to your country of residence, that your country of residence will recognize the adoption as valid, or that your child will become a citizen of your country of residence automatically.

A second important process is immigration. Most countries have laws regarding who may enter its borders, and under what conditions. As an example, if an American adopts a child overseas, but the child does not qualify as an "eligible orphan" under the Immigration and Nationality Act, is 16 or older, has HIV and parents don't qualify for a waiver, or has documents that don't meet USCIS validity tests, he/she will not be granted an adoption visa; moreover, the parents need to secure USCIS approval with regard to issues such as income, criminal history, and so on, or the child will not be issued a visa. This is true whether the child is a relative or a non-relative. In some cases, if the child does not qualify for an adoption visa, and the adoptive parent lives overseas with him/her for two years, he/she MAY be able to get another type of visa to enter the U.S.

Third, while issues of whether a country will recognize a foreign adoption as valid most often play out during immigration, it should be noted that some countries may prevent a child from taking advantage of certain services provided by the federal or local government, even if immigration is not an issue, unless other requirements are satisfied. In the U.S., there may also be a need for families to readopt or obtain a "recognition" of their foreign adoption in their home state, under certain circumstances.

Finally, a country may or may not recognize a child adopted overseas as having citizenship when he/she comes home. The U.S. now grants children who come home on either IR-3 or Hague visas citizenship from the moment they pass through Immigration at their point of entry into the U.S. If a child comes home on an IR-4 visa, he/she becomes an automatic citizen ONLY after readoption/recognition in his/her home state.

An IR-3 visa is given when both spouses (or a person adopting as a single) travel and see the child before a final adoption decree is granted in the non-Hague foreign country, as long as all other qualifications are met. An IR-4 visa is given either when only one parent in a two parent family, or no parent, sees the child before finalization in a non-Hague country overseas, OR when a child comes home on a decree of guardianship for adoption in the U.S. (as is the case in Korea and India). A Hague visa is given to any child whose adoption from a Hague-compliant country meets all Hague requirements.

In the U.S., citizenship does not get conferred solely because of parentage. A child born inside the U.S. to an illegal alien automatically becomes a U.S. citizen. However, a child born overseas to someone who came to the U.S. with him/her on a legal permanent resident visa, and later placed for adoption in the U.S., will have to be naturalized by his/her adoptive parents.

In some countries, a child may become a citizen if his/her bio or adoptive parents are citizens. However, in some countries, if you adopt a chld from overseas, he/she will not be a citizen unless he/she qualifies for naturalization and his/her parents apply for his/her naturalization.

With regard to citizenship, all countries confer some benefits on citizens that are not granted to non-citizens. So an adoptive parent will want to be sure that his/her child becomes a citizen of the country where he/she will be residing.

In short, international adoption involves a variety of processes and laws, and it is important that an adoptive parent understands and complies with them. If a family is a bit overwhelmed by all of the requirements, and worries that a mistake will be made, he/she should work with a reputable, licensed adoption agency or, where permitted, with an attorney who understands the laws of the parent's country and the child's country.

Sharon

[KoSaynourath]

Thanks again. After doing some more research, I've come to the realization that these fees can't be avoided. It makes sense why the state would want all these requirements. America would be better off if everyone had to go through these same requirements in order to have biological children .

Even though this will be an adopted child, I guess the way we always looked at it is as if it were our biological as well and no different than the two we already have. I never looked at it as if we were just two peole without children wanting to adopt.

I'm just frustrated that we've only received one response so far and their fees are higher than some we've seen. I guess we'll just have to suck it up and make some expensive phone calls to some more agencies back in Colorado just to talk in person.

Ko