[Saya]

I'm not sure where to post this - moderator, please move this if you feel it isn't in the right place.

I've been struggling with this for a long time, and I wanted to see what you all thought. I'm an a-mom through international adoption - my daughter, 2 years old, was born in Guatemala. We are currently in the process to adopt #2 domestically. I have been on this message board for several years now, and I have learned a heck of a lot - often thanks to listening to the words of the smart and insightful ladies here on the birthparents board.

Here's the thing. I am working with the same agency on our current adoption then we did for our previous adoption. They seem truly devoted to the idea that a woman considering relinquishing her baby for adoption should be given every opportunity and resource to parent if that's what she wants to do. They have a department devoted to this, and 65-70% of pregnant women who come to them for adoption services decide to parent. For those who decide upon adoption, they are a BIG advocate of open adoption. As PAPs, we have to go through a series of group classes on open adoption. They very much promote the idea that open and mature communication between b-parents and a-parents is important for the child's welfare.

OK, that's all well and good to me, but I think back to when I used this SAME agency to adopt our daughter, and I'm loathe to recall how different it was. At the international adoption group classes for PAPs the idea of open adoption wasn't even touched upon. I asked so many people along the way - my social worker, my attorney - how I could stay in touch with my daughter's mother, and basically every step of the way people tried to talk me out of it. I was told it would be unsafe for her. I was told she probably wouldn't want contact. I was told it was culturally inappropriate. And though I wanted contact, I let it go. I left the attorney with a letter for DD's mother that expressed that we wanted contact with her, but I don't believe he ever did anything to get it to her. I've tried to reach him several times since my daughter was home about reaching out to her mother in Guatemala, and he hasn't responded.

However now I'm a little more saavy, and I've connected to a yahoo group of parents of Guatemala adoptees who have made or are trying to make contact with birthparents. Many have been successful. And guess what - the birthmothers there are no different then the birthmothers here in the US. Crazy, right? (sarcasm) Most of them are thrilled to have contact, and were told that the ADOPTIVE parents wouldn't want to stay in touch. Some yes, feel that the adoption has to stay secret from their families, but that's no different then many birthmothers here. And some were told awful lies that their babies had died before the adoptions could be completed. I am now overwhelmed with the need to find my daughter's mother - not to force myself on her if she doesn't want contact, but just to let her know - we are here. My/your/our daughter is wonderful. She is safe and happy. I want her to know you, if you are willing. I want you to be a part of our lives. And if you don't want that now, but you will later, we'll still be here.

Blah blah blah. This is a long-winded way of expressing my frustration that international adoption is like 20 YEARS behind domestic adoption in so many ways. I feel like the social workers in the international program hide behind sterotypes - "oh, it wouldn't be culturally appropriate to stay in contact." Um, says who? In domestic adoption, where the potential birthparents are standing right there in the room, my agency treats them like human beings. But for international, the birthmoms are just hypothetical. The agency doesn't think about whether they're getting counseling or financial support, they don't think of these women as individuals with their own goals for what an adoption should look like. The result is these women are completely silenced.

OK, not sure where I'm going with this - I guess I just was thinking I had never really seen this discussed on this board anywhere, and it's really been bugging me. Thanks for reading, and I'd love to hear people's perspectives.

[kretzklan]

Hello -
My two youngest children are from Russia. Like you, the birthparents were rarely mentioned during our pre-adoption meetings. Our situations are different in one way though - my children were terribly abused, neglected and uncared for. There are many aparents that adopt from Russia that decide to search for the first parents and so many of them are happy they did. I am quite torn. I feel anger and resentment toward these people that hurt their own children, who have now become mine. I don't know everything about the situation in Guatemala, but I believe most placements are consentual from the mother - meaning they choose to give up their child at birth, correct? That would be something different in my opinion.
I do believe there are cultural differences for many countries. I think that agencies here are working mainly on your behalf and have little control over what is happening in your child's birth country. That probably leads to some apathy for folks that want "more"! That said, I think if you feel a pull in your heart to find your DD's first mother - do it! As long as you are prepared for either response and how you'll discuss it with your DD...I think it's great! Good luck!

[Saya]

Thanks for responding. I guess it's not so much that I wonder if I'm doing the right thing by searching. I'm pretty confident about this. I'm guess I'm just surprised that no one talks about birthmothers in international adoptions in the same conversations about birthmothers in the US. So any of the progress made in terms of e.g. removing the "stigma" of placement, supporting OA, trying to ensure that birthparents' right are recognized - no one seems to ever discuss this in the international context.

I know there are cultural differences. I have been a trainer on cultural competency issues for mediators and others. But I worry that "cultural differences" can and does become an excuse to ignore individual rights and preferences. I've seen it happen.

Edited to say - To clarify, I'm not trying to say that birthparents in the United States are always treated so well, and that we've come oh-so-far. I know that that's not the case, that there is still a hell of a lot of work and education to be done. But it seems like even among who are discussing these issues, the birthmoms in international adoption don't seem to be mentioned in the conversation.

[Oceans]

Saya - I don't have any experience in OA (or IA) but I have often wondered about this topic. Yes, there may be cultural differences but I can't believe the need to know that your child is safe, well cared for, and growing up well is unique to domestic birthmom's.

Now I may be TOTALLY off base on this and please correct me if I am but I have gathered from reading some threads here (a.com) that many, not all (you for example) adoptive parents wanted a more closed adoption and decided IA was best for their family...

I wonder if the agencies play into that thought process. I might go so far as to call it a stereotype and therefore do not encourage OA.

[Saya]

Originally Posted by Oceans

Now I may be TOTALLY off base on this and please correct me if I am but I have gathered from reading some threads here (a.com) that many, not all (you for example) adoptive parents wanted a more closed adoption and decided IA was best for their family...

Hi Oceans! Yes, I think this is often the case (though perhaps not as much as some might sterotype). Which is part of what lead me to characterize IA as 15 or 20 years behind domestic. Twenty years ago there was also an assumption by both B-parents and A-parents that closed adoption was both the norm and preferable.

And yes, I think sometimes agencies must assume that that is what IA parent want to hear. but I also just wonder if some international agencies (or the international staff at dual agencies) just don't care to educate themselves about these issues. . .

[Oceans]

My other thought was that OA's really are a pain in the neck for agencies... Especially since they get put in the middle as an intermediary and on going counseling and support.

Also, do you think the agencies worry at times that the method of finding emoms is questionable in certain countries. Opening contact may also open a can of worms...

I don't mean to throw agencies under the bus here... AND, I probably am touching on every IA stereotype out there (and don't mean to)...

I agree with you tho... In an IA, if both parties would enjoy contact then why not pull aside the veil and encourage it to happen.

[mlb]

I agree that agencies don't really want IA to be open, though my story is a little different. My agency knew that our son had a sister adopted and was living 20 minutes away from us and they did NOT contact us. Even worse, they discounted the "story" when we got a letter from the other family 8 MONTHS AFTER THE AGENCY HEARD ABOUT IT. I asked them to look into it and I never heard from them again. Now a world away they "find" each other,and they felt that it wasn't worth mentioning. Some say that the agency may have thought that they really weren't bio siblings - if it wasn't for the fact they they look IDENTICAL, just the opposite gender and that they each had a 5x7 pics on the same wall in the agency. Many agencies do what is easy for them, no more.

[RavenSong]

Wow, I'm so glad to see this topic brought up! I've been wondering a lot the past few months about the birthmothers from other countries whose children are adopted thru IA. I agree with Oceans ~ the agencies may not want parents to look too closely at how the expectant mothers are recruited, especially in impoverished countries.

This is an interesting subject. I hope others will soon chime in with their thoughts about it.

[mlb]

I am glad to hear that some do that. Unfortunately with international adoption is is much harder to maintain that contact. According to Kaz law, we had the right to adopt my son's birthsister first. However, they don't have money for diapers much less phone calls to the US to keep up with the locations of adoptive families. They don't even use computers, so who is going to review all of files to find us? Luckily we all (our family and her family) found each other but so many others are not so lucky.

[hml1976]

I think many people start out in IA because they don't want the perceived "hassle" of an open adoption. I think more people choose IA for other reasons though. We chose IA because that's where we felt our children were and because we weren't comfortable with being chosen by a birthparent.

I would LOVE to have contact with my kids birthparents. Unfortunately I have one child that was abandoned in a field and another child who's birthmother lied about her name and address. We may be able to track down the second child's birthmother though and will try.

We changed agencies after our first adoption. One of the reasons we switched was our first agency's complete lack of respect for finding birth families. Not only did they discourage it but have been known to cut off contact (kick them off their email loop, not invite them to reunions etc) with families who attempted it.

[One_Happy_Momma]

You know I was wondering the same thing the other night. Especially when I see that most of the communication is with the foster families of your adopted children. I wondered if the agencies or attorneys had any contact with the birthmothers to let them know how much their children are being loved and cared for, as I see so many of you do. The pride and love you have for your children shows through your posts.

Thank you for trying to reach out to these moms!

[Saya]

Originally Posted by One_Happy_Momma

You know I was wondering the same thing the other night. Especially when I see that most of the communication is with the foster families of your adopted children. I wondered if the agencies or attorneys had any contact with the birthmothers to let them know how much their children are being loved and cared for, as I see so many of you do. The pride and love you have for your children shows through your posts.

Thank you for trying to reach out to these moms!

Lupe, my agency said we should talk to our attorney in Guatemala about it. And he said we could give him a letter for her and he would keep it in case the birthmother came for it. We gave it to him, then later asked him about it - no response. He wrote us an e-mail months later asking us to send him some pictures. We did, and e-mailed him excitedly "Is this for her birthmother" Did she get the letter" Does she want more photos?" He never responded. I e-mailed him again about it a couple of months later about it - he never responded.

I mean, he's not a bad guy, but he's got no particular incentive to act as the middle man here, you know? We are not paying him any more. (Plus when we discussed this with him in Guatemala, I have to say me seemed pretty dumbstruck by the idea of open adoption. His attitude was, why would you want to keep in touch? You know she's probably just going to ask you for money. . .) Plus since adoptions in Guatemala are on hold, I think he moved his office and changed his contact info.

Bonnie, it's great that your agency promotes openess in international adoptions. I've really not seen that very much . . .

[ocracoke]

I adopted from Ethiopia. I know there is at least one agency that requires that the adopting family meet with any surviving birth family members when they travel to pick up their child. Some children are abandoned so it does not happen for those families. I know that one agency working in Ethiopia no longer allows adopting families to meet with birth families saying that if there is birth family available then the child may not meet the USCIS status of an orphan and therefore may not be issued the visa necessary to enter the US. I know there is also at least one agency that will facilitate communication between birth and adoptive family once the first year of place has been completed. I know that my daughter's bmom died before placement and I know her bdad was terminal at placement. I so desparately want more information about her family for her. I want a story, a picture, anything. I want her to know what they looked like, how they loved her, what they wished for, and stories of her own life before I became her mother. As an adoptee I truly believe that it is her right to have these things and I feel that the more time that passes since her adoption the less likely she is of ever having that information. But so far I have not been able to make the contact with her bdad or his extended family. But I will keep trying and keep spending money to make it happen because I believe that by doing so I am not only giving her was it rightfully hers but I am also strengthening our bond through trusting the relationship we have enough to include the other people who can also claim her as family.

Samantha

[KellyKA]

Hey everyone sorry but im going to rock the boat at little bit but I am all for closed adoptions especially for infants. I think for older children who know and remember their parents other options should be considered for keeping contact but for young children and babies I think things should be closed and Im saying this not as a selfish parent but as an adopted child myself.

I will admit I am very curiouse about my birthmother and family but I would have been VERY confused growing up to have 2 moms I knew about and possibly other half brothers and sisters, and it would have "normalfied" if thats even a word, a broken family. I grew up in a great home with two brothers who were my parents biokids and while I feel a little differnt I would have felt like an OUTCAST had there been other parents to "know about" besides my own and I think putting a concrete face, to the abstract idea of my adoption would have isolated me and caused alot of upset and pain. My parents never hid my adoption and were always very open about me being adopted but they were MY PARENTS and my brothers were MY BROTHERS and to have other people hanging in the wing popping in an out, being "family" but with no resposibilty would have greatly lessened my view,value and feelings of what a family ment.

Im sorry if Im not saying the popular thing its just my point of view and im also looking at it as the example of how I want to raise my own children. While giving a child up for adoption is a truely selfless thing I think this new idea of Open adoptions is a little bit of "Having your cake, and eating it to" at the expense of the child.

[mlb]

Kelly
You definitely have a right to your own opinion. We have an extraordinary circomstance, but I do agree with you. I will support my sons if they want to search, however I will not search for them. It is to personal a decision for them for me to make for them. There are those that do, but that's not for me.