[Adoption_Ally]

Okay - I'm gonna be a wet blanket here.

Not every adopted child has birth parents who care. There are plenty of kids both in the US and internationally whom their parents essentially threw away.

In all honesty, I have never wasted any time worrying about my son's birth mother. She already had seven - yep - 7 - children before him. She was pregnant with #9, but wouldn't use birth control because the Church told her she couldn't. His parents would go off and leave the kids for days at a time in the barrio with no food. One of the girls had her hands burned in a gasoline fire. Joe was baby #8, and sickly, so his mother didn't want him anymore. Colombian authorities broadcast his picture hoping to find someone to take him in, but no one wanted him. Joe was in state care for two years before he came home with us. Nobody even knows his exact birthdate. As a matter of fact, we're pretty sure that we were lied to, and he's probably 6 months to a year older than they told us.

So no, I never had any urge to track his birth family down, and I’ve never laid awake nights wondering if his Bmom misses him. If my son wants to try to find his bfamily, of course I'll support him. But I don't think it will have a happy ending.

I do have some empathy for my daughter's mother. I choose to believe that her parents loved her enough not to just quietly do away with her. Maya was born with extra fingers and an extra toe - a child of the devil. She was abandoned within hours of her birth solely because of that. In our culture, with our values, it is unthinkable for us to get rid of a baby for something as simple as an extra finger or toe. But as a girl in Cambodia with those defects, it is surprising that she was even allowed to live. Actually her extra fingers and toe ultimately saved her life because her other birth defects, while less obvious, were life-threatening. If she had not been brought to the US for medical treatment, she surely would have died. In her case it is impossible to ever know who her birth parents are – or were. Some days I wish Maya’s mother could see the amazing child she is. But with her funny hands, nasty scars, and tiny size, I’m not at all sure she would be received very well.

We all should aspire to a higher ethical standard in all adoptions. And I am very much for more openness – for those mothers who want it. However, I think we have to take into consideration the cultural differences between the US and other countries. In India, it is an embarrassment and brings shame to her family if a woman only has female children – better to pretend the baby died and get rid of it. China is a one-child per family country where boys are valued far more than girls. The mothers would rather abandon their girl children so they can try to have a boy. In parts of the world mothers are honored because their sons intentionally blow themselves and others up for a cause - something totally unimaginable to most of us. We are ugly self-centered, provincial Americans to treat poor countries as incubators for our babies. We are just as ugly, self-centered, provincial Americans to believe that our value system is the only right one and to ignore the norms and values of other cultures.

Those of us who are active on these boards are here because we value every single baby - every child. These lives are so precious to us that we cannot imagine how a mother could feel any differently than we do. Unfortunately it is a sad reality that some women do not want or care about their children.

[KarynB]

Ally - I think you've touched on a few important points here.

But, first I just want to note that there are mothers/fathers in ALL countries of the world (including Canada and the US) who treat their children in the most despicable ways. I don't think its a cultural difference, it happens everywhere. Child abuse, neglect, abandonment - they are products of all societies in the world.

I also have struggled with feeling compassion for my sons' birthmom - and birthdad. Funny how we focus on the birthmoms but don't mention the abandonment of the dad....My older son was abandoned with no birthdate either. My youngest was repeatedly abandoned - the first time at 1 week old at a bus stop. Just left there. The mere thought of it makes me feel sick and the picture of it in my head makes me want to hold him close and NEVER let him go. He was treated poorly by the one person who was supposed to love him. What kind of person does this? Ok...that is one side of it.

BUT: The other side is that I have no idea what it is like to live in continual poverty with no or little hope of escape from it. That must drive you to make some pretty poor decisions. In a culture where it is frowned upon to relinquish a baby for adoption - well, that just combines to drive someone to make some terrible decisions. Maybe the birthmother herself was raised in poverty, neglect and abuse. Maybe she was raped. It is hard to care for someone else when you have been treated this way.

Yes, we as North Americans value every single child - but we have the wealth and priviledge to be able to do so. We have the resources to care for kids with special needs - not everyone is lucky enough to have this. Some are just working to feed the kids one meal a day - how would they pay for operations, medication, wheelchairs, etc? And our values were not always this way - poor white people used to abandon babies too (and still do) - it is only recently that our survival did not depend on the amount of children we had or didn't have. Yes, in India it is important for mothers to have boys. Girls can cost families their life savings upon marriage - and so to preserve the survival of the family they are often abandoned or killed. Of course I am not saying this is right, but we need to look deeper than the surface of what is driving mothers to abandon their children so seemingly "carelessly". It is systematic gender inequality that makes this wheel go round, and to place that on the shoulders of birthmothers who are victims of this system is, in my opinion, wrong.

Anyways, I am not meaning to flame you or anything - I really do hear where you are coming from. It is so hard to look into your kids' eyes and have to hurt them with the reality of their situation - to see their pain when they realize they were abandoned, abused, neglected, forgotten. And it is easy to feel anger. But that anger should be directed at the systems that cause this - including our own capitalist world which has caused most of these countries to continue to live in the type of poverty they do. Not at the birthmoms who are victims of the oppression.

Whew - stepping off the large soapbox I seemd to have climbed up on...

[Bunnygirl]

Thank you Kelly! I agree with you. If, when he's older, my adopted son wants to search for his birth parents I will do all I can to help him -- but I think it's better that he grow up with just one family at a time, so to speak.

I have an adopted cousin on one side of the family who I'm very close to who has NEVER wanted to search for her birth mother and I have another, on the other side, who was a "surprise" cousin. She was adopted at birth and was raised by parents she loved very much but always had a lot of curiousity & started searching for her birth parents as an adult (my uncle was her birth father).

People are just different, and personally, I think that something as emotionally fraught as the whole birthparent/adoptive parent thing is better dealt with when one is an adult (or at least an older adolescent). I think it would be confusing to a young child and, as someone whose adopting, I must confess that I DO want my child "all to myself" at least in the early years. Maybe that's selfish but, how many NON-adoptive parents have to "share" their children?

[Adoption_Ally]

KarynB - I did not read your post as a flame at all! Actually, your very eloquent post validated a lot of what I was trying to say. And you're right: there are people everywhere who should not be permitted to parent.

One of the points you made was similar to what I was saying - that we cannot begin to comprehend what it is like for the Bmoms in many of the countries from where we adopt. I don't think that most Americans understand how incredibly wealthy we are, or the cultural pressures that these women face.

There are two issues that concern me - and in some ways they are two sides of the same coin. The first is the notion that somehow, if only enough people care and enough money is raised, that there would be this enormous reduction in the number of 'orphans' available for adoption. Certainly we all have a responsibility to improve the lives of all families all over the world. But the changes necessary to empower all women to have reproductive control and the opportunity to adequately raise their children are many and complex. Money alone won't solve the problem - wholesale cultural changes must take place as well.

The second is the belief that going back to find the birth mother is a good thing. Let's assume you are a loving, caring birth mother who made the heart wrenching decision to relinquish a baby for whom you could not care. Some years down the road, a wealthy American family swoops into town, shows you how wonderfully the child is doing, look at all the toys and clothes, and we're staying in that hotel, etc. etc. You know that in a few days they are going back and you will still be here, in grinding poverty, maybe with other children who will never have what that adopted baby has. How are you going to feel? Will you really be happy, or will it re-open a deep wound?

They are not us, and we are not them. I think that both of these positions can be a form of imperialism (CAN being the operative word here). The first being that we know how to 'fix' another culture. The second verges on saying "so sorry you had to give away your baby, but look at what wonderful parents we are and how well s/he is doing without you!"

This reminds me of Step Nine of the Twelve Step Programs: Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others. We have to be careful that our own peace of mind is not bought at the expense of others. Do we want to find the birthmothers because it will make them feel better, or because it makes us feel better?

I certainly do NOT agree with the premise that because we want to adopt another child that we are hoping for some other woman to have to relinquish a child and go through that loss. And that is simply because of the numbers: According to some sources there are something like 146 MILLION children considered 'orphans' worldwide. Fewer than 20,000 children were adopted into the US. There are WAY - sooooo way - more children available than parents for them.

Regarding my own children's birth circumstances: In my son's case I don't have a lot of sympathy. These weren't parents who were doing their best. These were parents who didn't show a lot of interest in their children and yet continued to produce more.

On the other hand, I am very grateful to my daughter's bmom. She made the choice to allow her daughter to live. She left her where she could get medical treatment. Maya's bmom probably did mourn her for a period of time. But, being Buddhist, that time is past. It is not her faith, her culture, or her nature for that loss to be a part of her life now.

The orphanage where Maya lived for two years was told that she was going to die. They didn't feed her much because, when resources are very scarce, you don't waste any on the ones that won't make it. But they DID feed her. They DID keep her alive.

To us, withholding food from a child is completely abhorent. But that's because we have plenty of food for everyone. I don't know the total, but I'm pretty sure that close to $1,000,000 has been spent on my daughter's care. Cambodia doesn't have that kind of money to spend on one child.

When we all talk about learning about our IA children's culture, we tend to refer to such things as the food, holidays, clothing, etc. Maybe it would help even more if we tried to understand what it was truly like to be living and raising children in their country.

Good Grief - I just reread what I wrote, and BOY do I sound preachy! That's not what I intended. I know that anyone who is reading this thread cares deeply about not only their child, but all children - not just their child's bmom, but ALL birth mothers. I'm hoping to bring another perspective - right or wrong - to help us all think through these complex issues.

[Saya]

First of all, Karyn, will you marry me? I loved your post (as usual) and thought it was right on!

OK, I will admit - everything I've said here and on other threads is because I've drunk the open adoption Kool-ade! Guilty as charged! So yes, I believe that more open is better. I don't exactly want to "share" my daughter with anyone either. I am her mother - I'm the one she calls mama, and the one she hugs and kisses, and the one she reaches for when she cries. I don't share that with anyone (but DH of course). BUT I also can't pretend that this is exactly the same as non-adoptive parenthood. The fact is, I DO share the title "Anabel's mother" with someone else, even if I've never met her. My daughter has a bond with a women (and a man, and siblings) thousands of miles away. I can't ignore it, for all of our sakes.

(Of course I have to be very careful how I talk about all this with A, but that's another thread. . .)

Interestingly, my initial thought was to wait until Anabel was older to try to track down her birth mom. Let her take the lead, and do it when she was ready. But a few things changed my mind:

1) I realized that because of various pieces of info I had that A's mama in Guatemala might be very mobile, and there was a chance if I waited I might never be able to track her down again.

2) The newspapers began to be filled with awful rumors about Guat adoptions, and I wanted to be able to know the truth about my daughter's adoption, whatever it was.

3) Listening to the birthmothers on this board made me think more carefully about the relationship I share with this unknown woman who gave birthday the best kid on the planet. Who I am now blessed to call my daughter.

Edited to say: Ally, you've made some really interesting points that I can't take the time to answer right now. I'll think about it and try to come back soon.

[KarynB]

Saya - LOL! I love it! Thanks again for starting this thread - what a great conversation...

[Janelee]

Saya, you mentioned you are looking for your daughter's birthmom. Do you have an investigator? Ours is an abandonment but I would like to see what I can do to find out the circumstances and maybe find the birthmom...has anyone ever located a birthmom for an abandonment case?

[lil_hobo]

I read all the posts in this topic (even though you've seemingly finished the conversation las month!) and I wanted to give you all something to think about... Honduras.

Honduras was very similar to Guatemala over 10 years ago: adoption problems almost identical to what is happening in Guat now (corruption with international adoptions, highly publicized etc). If you look at Honduras now, an almost non-existant and politically painful adoption system, you can see the shadows of how the problems affected the system as we now know it.

Babies were being bought/sold/stollen/coerced etc from mothers, totally corrupt system. Eventually, after many problems, the goverment essentially locked down adoptions, made all adoptions through a broken government assignment system (only abandoned children- which takes tons of finances and time to do). At this point, Honduras is lucky to see 30 international adoptions a year. There are thousands of abandoned children in Honduras waiting for families, but the system is so broken and underfunded that they will nevr see that dream, nor return to their birth families either.

The saddest thing about this is that nobody in Honduras really cares to change the system. The reputation of international adoption is tarnished by rumors of babies sold into slavery or as organ donors, stories of mothers tricked into signing the papers to send their kids to 'private school' only to find out that it was for adoption (this happened to a friend of mine), etc etc

In our own case, my girls' mother is in prison. We've taken them to see her many times over the years, and while it is sometimes really tough, they need that. Their father was abusive to them, and they remember that too, but we can't ever say that he is not a perfect father. He is their father, horrible or not, and they have to come to their own decisions about him. Sure, I hope to never have to meet him, and the girls don't actually want to see him, but they do need to know they can still love him if they want. The girls' mom still wavers on whether adoption is an option, even now that her jail sentence is 30 years and she cannot raise her children... even though she knows us well and loves us, knows the girls want to come too... she is afraid of the things she has heard, Honduras' adoption legacy of rumors and bad history.

For those of you who are looking to reach out to your adoptive children's families, I commend you. I think it is the right thing for your kids if you can make it work, if their bmoms want to... to let your kids know where they came from etc. And overall, maybe if more parents like you reach out, we won't see Guatemala grind to a halt like we've seen in Honduras... that is my hope!

Ok, I'll get off my soap box