[mediate24]

On Saturday, DH and I took DS to an apple orchard for a hayride and other fall fun. We were waiting for the hayride to start when a woman behind us said to her daughter "ewww...what is all over your face? You look like an orphan." She then looked at my son, looked at me, and got this look on her face like "opps!" What the heck? There are soooo many things wrong with her statement that I don't even know where to begin. I didn't say anything to her, but I looked directly at her after she said it so that she knew I heard her. What would you have done? What are your thoughts on the term "orphan?"

Stephanie

[kirbystarcat]

Had a very similar comment last year at daughter's preschool. The parents were bringing the kids into the room and someone commented to one little boy's father how nice the little boy looked that day. I was standing next to the man because our children's seats were next to each other. The father laughed and said "Yeah, he either looks nice or like an orphan, no in between." My blood started to boil but I kept my cool and said "You know, my daughter was orphaned but her caretakers at the home she was in did their best to make sure she looked nice." He gave me this dumb half confused half embarrassed look and quickly got out of there. he also pretty much avaoided me the rest of the year. I was not sad to see his son is not in my daughter's class this year.

[gabriella_heart]

I tend to take things lightly. I know the reference may not be okay, but you at least have to see where they are coming from. The play/movie Annie has been around forever and they portray orphans in a orphanage with dirt on their face and torn clothes. That is what an orphan was who was living in an orphanage and I am sure around the world still is. Our children are lucky to have been taken care of even though they were technically orphans. But at least see where the people or coming from, they are not bad people to make these comments. The comments were said lightheartedly. I don't consider my daughter an orphan and she would never think she was one. She always had someone who loved her to make sure she was taken care of, some orphans aren't so lucky.

[Slatond10]

I have heard a similar phrase in the south except they use "homeless" instead of word "orphan." but I think the intent of comment is same.

There was once a post about the definition of the word "orphan." .. this could have been on the yahoo forum? And whether AP considered their children orphans? It was an interesting discussion thread. Might be worth searching archive to read.

I respond a little different to a comment like that cause my DD is normally with me. If I look and see they are embarrased by what they said. I normally laugh it off and share a different version of saying the comment that isn't offensive to anyone. My own DD can look like a dirt dobber or quite unkept sometimes as well... She is very active and loves to get dirty too.

DD is social butterfly to the max and I want her to always find perspective when she hears comments that might insult her. (edited to add) -But Like Gabriella_heart said ( we were posting @ same tiime)... I don't consider DD to be an orphan either. She was well loved by all "mothers" ... Birthmother, Fostermother and Forever Mother...

[bhouston]

I guess I have never thought of my daughter as an orphan so that probably wouldnt have caused a strong reaction in me....but other things certainly do....like this summer at the pool when my daughter was playing in the pool and this about 10 yr old boy said to her...I am not getting in the water with a black woman...that was very hurtful because it was aimed directly at her...or this one really upset me...the other day I saw a bumper sticker that had a paw print on it and underneath it said...what I am adopted? I just thought that was in bad taste...I am sure animal lovers see nothing wrong with it but for me it just didnt feel right....I am trying to work hard with Brooklyn to take things with a grain of salt because mean things are said all the time especially in the first grade....like...you are fat....youre not my friend anymore...I dont like you...so she has to have a tough skin because sometimes now I am not going to be there and she is going to have to learn how to appropriately deal with stuff and not let it devastate her for the day....Beth

[stephjoel99]

I think that's just a "saying" - I don't think I would have reacted that strongly in all honesty because there wasn't a negative intent towards your child most likely. And honestly, most orphans are not well taken care of - so there's a reason that saying came about, as tacky and ugly as it is.

We've had bigger fish to fry with comments (that *were* intended) like "How much did you buy her for?" "I could NEVER love someone else's child" (said in front of my child) or my personal favorite (NOT!) "She smells Guatemalan."

[Mardan]

Not to make this sound lighthearted by anymeans because I have heard the word orphan more times than I care to admit since having my two home here but now I have the perfect comeback. Since losing my children's beloved nana a year and a half ago whenever I hear the word orphan I say "oh thank you but I am too old to be a orphan now" and that usually quiets them down and makes my kids laugh.

Julie (proud mom to two wonderful blessings)

[Devora]

I, too, think we have to take comments like that with some understanding of where the person might be coming from who said it. Generally when people make a comment like that they are either directly or indirectly making a literary reference to images from works like Annie, Oliver Twist, etc.

Certainly we as adoptive parents of children who are technically considered by the US State Dept to have been orphaned (even if they were relinquished) have a different view on the word and on using it as a reference for a dirty or unkempt child. However, there is an argument for it being a valid literary reference. Of course, as our cultures change and evolve the acceptability of literary references change. So if we want to advocate for that kind of change we can. But we need to recognize that glib responses and offended looks won't help people understand why widely accepted references to literary images are problematic. It will take more in-depth discussions and explanations.

[DDAmasa]

It never even would have occurred to me to be offended. When my son is particulary messy, with dirt all over his face and clothes, I've told him myself he looks like a poor little orphan boy. As others have said, it's a reference back to Annie and many Dickens novels. I don't think it's a big deal. The expression is not a slur against being an orphan, but a reference to not having a anyone to clean him up, as sadly, was usually the case with orphans in past eras. It's just a saying. I really don't see the issue with it.

[dumbfounded1]

ignored it

[LaRonda]

Though I understand the literal sense and historical background of the using the term "orphan" to describe a dirty child and also understand that it is a big leap to get other people not touched by ICA to understand why that term might be offensive, I do have to say that the other insulting comments mentioned above said to your children are just plain racist.

Having children way older than what alot of you who are posting have, depending on what part of the country you live in and the makeup of your family, I suggest that you develop thick skin. Racist comments hurt and no snippy comeback is going to ease that pain.

[mediate24]

Interesting! I had no idea that others would not find this term offensive! I still do, but your comments give me some perspective. I certainly understand the literary reference of the term, but the meaing of the term has evolved to be something negative and degrading. Clearing, the context of how this woman used the term illustrates that! Even some of the comments here point to that. The first thing that comes to people's minds when hearing the term "orphan" is dirty, unkempt. I don't consider my son an orphan, just like most of you, but most people who do not understand ICA and do not know our children DO consider our children orphans. To me, it is no different than some of the racist terms and comments that run rampant in our society and have literary and historical references. Does that still make those terms acceptable? Absolutely not. We all know that language evolves over time and we have to adapt. As an example, I work in the field of developmental disabilities. The term "mental retardation" has been a common term used in our field and was even a part of our agency's name. Just recently, our state decided to remove this term from all county agency names because the term has evolved to be very hurtful, insulting, and degrading. (i.e. retard)

I guess I see it as my responsibility as a parent (and just as a human being) to be aware of how terms are used in a very hurtful and insulting way, especially when it involves my family. It doesn't mean we have to react every time or constantly be educating people at every opportunity because that is just exhausting, but it does mean having awareness so that I can have meaningful conversations with my son when these incidents happen, as they will over and over.

[JustBarbara]

Hmm, that term does not seem particularly offensive to me - I was thinking of Oliver Twist. Anyway, since a vast majority of our children were not 'orphaned' but relinquished it really doesn't seem to apply. And most people who have not been in the adoption world really have just little clues as to what it is all about. Just my opinion.

[Devora]

To me, it is no different than some of the racist terms and comments that run rampant in our society and have literary and historical references. Does that still make those terms acceptable? Absolutely not. We all know that language evolves over time and we have to adapt.

I agree that language changes and should change. However, I think that calling a comment like that and in that context "insulting" or "offensive" or responding with dirty looks or sarcastic comments implies that the other person should know better than to use that term. In this case I don't think it's reasonable to expect that most people would have ever reflected on how the word "orphan" can reinforce negative and untrue stereotypes or be demeaning to people who are in fact orphans (or are perceived to be).

Many adoptive parents, especially white middle class parents, experience a lot of consciousness-raising as a result of adopting and parenting an internationally adopted child. Many of us have experiences that we would not have otherwise had and come to understand much more about poverty, class oppression, racism, US intrusion in other governments, global economics, etc. That kind of consciousness-raising is, I think, good. Many of us become more outspoken on these types of issues. I think that's good, especially when it doesn't only involve our own children (e.g., speaking out against racism that affects other people, becoming involved in refugee and immigrants' rights, etc.).

However, I think that the issues raised with the word "orphan" are more subtle. If the use of this word should be changed, then let's change it. But let's not be insulted or offended because someone else doesn't see the subtleties. This is not a blatantly racist or sexist word. We also need to remember that subtle differences are open to many differences in opinion. The analogy to "mental retardation" is apt. "Mentally retarded" is no longer considered proper because it was associated historically with treatment practices that we now consider to be unnecessary or even abhorrent. But there are a whole host of alternative words that are hotly debated. Some people prefer "developmentally delayed" whereas others prefer "developmentally disabled" or "differently abled" or "mentally challenged" or "low IQ" or any of a number of other terms --- each one of which some people vehemently oppose. Within adoption circles there's also hot debate, for example between "birth parent", "first parent", "biological parent", "natural parent", and "original parent".

I don't see how we can expect others not to use the word "orphan" when there is no consensus even among adoptees, adoptive families and first/birth families about the terms we use for ourselves or for adopted children.

[Dickons]

I am an adoptee and have never been or felt like an orphan, I was relinquished/placed for adoption...the term is a valid description of a person whose parents are deceased whether or not they are adopted.

Ragamuffin was the common term used when I was growing up to describe a child that needed to be cleaned up...never thought that term was bad but perhaps it is too...feel free to educate me because I would not know it was wrong to say it.

But terms do need to change when they become mean spirited...like using the "O" term instead of Asian. And usually it only takes a subtle quietly spoken explanation that some people find it mean spirited for the other person to stop using it. Those that don't understand/get it usually have major issues that preclude them from growing.

Kind regards,
Dickons