[arthymom]

Do you think it's possible to lay a strong foundation of morals and values without organized religion?

I'd love to hear from all of you, but in particular those of you with older kids who have confronted moral/values/ethical decisions with kids.

My dh and I are an interfaith couple and neither of us feels deeply rooted in religious faith where we currently live, or the desire to pursue such establishments.

Ds is now 6 and I just wonder if we're doing the right thing for him and of course later dd.

Just curious.
Thanks,

[Guatemomtobe]

great topic. I personally think it is very possible to raise a child with good values without being involved in organized religion. I don't think that religion instills values, parents instill values. Do we get a lot of our values from relgion? I don't know the answer to that. I was raised in an ultra conservative, religious household. I don't know if the values that I have are due to my parents being good role models or from us going to church every sunday. I personally like to think that it was from my parents being good role models. I don't think that because you go to church and read the bible makes you a better person than someone that doesn't do those things. I know a lot of people that go to church and read the bible but aren't necessarily the best of people. I am not by any means bashing religion or people that choose to partake in organized religion. I am just of the opinion that religion isn't what makes a person good or bad or gives them their value system.

I will be interested in getting other perspectives on this topic.

[dac_cincy]

I do not believe that one be in an organized religion to have the ability to teach morals, but I do believe that our morals are rootedin our belief system.

I understand you to indicate that you do not feel connected to the faith you were brought up in or in the established houses of worship in your area. That does not preclude you from imparting your believes on morality to your children. It is the example that you set for your children and the expectations you have of them that will shape them- not whether or not they attend Sunday school or a worship service.

Since you are an interfaith couple, if you have not already done so, I would encourage you to talk through what you consider to be moral absolutes, how you would choose to raise your children and then determine if there is any additional value you see to seeking out an established house of worship. if not, then so be it.

I think that it is very easy to get caught up in the belief that going to church or attending worship makes a person more moral then someone who does not- but it is how we conduct ourselves, how we treat others and the lessons we teach the next generation by which our true moral compass is made known. i have known many folks who attend church each Sunday bit their lives during the week don't reflect what the church says and I have known people who have never been to church who shame me with their lives and actions becuase they are living the life that I aspire to have.


I hope this helps

Love and hugs,
Deb

[BeverlyZ]

Spirituality is a journey. This I learned from parenting, not religion. And telling our child to "play nicely with others" sure has a way of making me check myself! I want to be a better person, a better role model.

We were raised in Christian homes and went to church every Sunday. One message I remember from church is that it's a community. My hubby and I decided that it is from this angle that we will guide our son's spirituality. Frankly, we are so mixed up with religion, it makes no sense to bring him up in a church just because our parents chose it for us. Many Christians may disagree with us, but we can't get over how millions of people can be wrong (Hinduism, Islam, Buddhism, Judiasm, etc etc etc). We're still wrapping our minds around it.

I will share this story as a major explanation to my current phase:
Shortly after our son was home with us, I held him as he fell asleep. I was overwhelmed with love and a sense of protecting him, I cried. I asked God for spiritual guidance. The very next morning, the Qu'ran was hanging on my front door. Coincidence? Perhaps. Part of my journey? No doubt.

Currently, we speak with our son in terms of "god made us and all life" and "we should take care of each other/community." We pick up garbage along streets, bike paths and sidewalks on Sunday mornings. We occasionally go to an area nursing home as volunteers. We donate. Recently we decided to learn about the main religions of the world. Similarly, we started reading the U.S. Constitution and other documents for our freedoms. Why not? It's an environment of learning and appreciating differences, not limited by the rules or traditions of an organized religion.

I'll tell you if this works out in about, oh, 10 years when our son is 13

[SKL]

My household is also multi-faith, and I have independently studied the major world religions in a fair amount of depth. Here's where I am right now on the role of religion in my kids' upbringing, moral and otherwise:

1) There are basic moral truths that form the foundations of the major religions, and that also stand on their own.

2) It is helpful to present morals in the context of religion for several reasons: (a) like all humans, kids are more likely to take you seriously if there's also someone else saying the same thing you are saying; (b) putting things in a story context is easy for kids to relate to; and (c) the major religions have conveniently developed structured methods for imparting complex/abstract moral concepts.

3) Notwithstanding #2, religious instruction will never be as important as seeing parents live and breathe the morals they seek to impart.

4) It is good for kids to be aware of the religious heritage(s) of his family, community, and country. It's an important part of cultural literacy, regardless of belief.

5) Out of consideration for extended family and the child's place therein, family traditions that happen to be religious should be observed to the extent that they don't offend my personal morals/values.

So what I do is both model and articulate the basic morals/values that I believe in, draw on religious teachings that help articulate such morals/values, read non-denominational prayers, share stories and songs from the Bible and other holy books / philosopies, and celebrate Christian and other holidays with family/friends. I will probably have the girls baptized at some point because it will bring comfort to my family and will not offend my morals/values. When the girls get a little older, I'll read with them about different religions, all of which I respect.

Some examples of things I tell my girls (who are going on 3 years old):

- Do unto others as you would have them do unto you: that's the Golden Rule (with simplified explanations). This is the basis for a lot of discussions relating to kindness, responsibility, etc.

- Isn't it wonderful how God heals?

- Don't harm bugs; they are God's creatures too.

- We thank God for ___.

- It is a sin to waste God's gifts.

- All things bright and beautiful, . . . the lord God made them all . . . .

[amyfk]

I am no expert but I believe you had to raise your child in how you see fit. Also I do think the main thing is the respect we have for ourselves and others. There are probably millions of Americans in church, synagogue, and mosque who are there because they are "supposed to be there." I would bet there are many who are agnostic or atheistic. In addition, it appears that we are living in a more secular society than ever before.
I wish I had some hard statistics for you on other families like you, or on communities of families like yourselves where you can feel a part of.
But I think the main thing is to raise your children with good morals and values.
Keep us posted,
Best,
Amy K, NJ

[wvamom]

I'm wondering--how can we decide what is "wrong" or "right," or "good" or "evil," without a concept of God? I guess what I am asking is, how is there any good or evil, apart from just personal preference, of course, if there is no God? If I decide to harm someone else, who is there to say that is a "bad" thing? It might seem like a "good" thing, as far as I am concerned. And without any ultimate arbiter, who is to say that I am wrong?

I have an uncle who is an agnostic, who believes that we cannot know whether there is a God or not. So his actions are not based upon a belief in God. I have asked him how he decides if something is wrong or right, and he says that an action is wrong if it is against the law. But then again, the legislature can change the law any time they meet, right? So according to that theory, what is right or wrong can change with the whims of legislators.

Just wondering, how anyone can be guaranteed to have any inalienable rights (life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, to name some examples) if those rights were not granted by a higher power- God? If they were granted by people, couldn't people just as readily take those rights away?

Just some food for thought...

Carolyn

[kerriv]

I'm atheist. I decide what's right or wrong basically using the golden rule. I teach my daughters that we try not to do anything that would cause someone else pain or sorrow because we wouldn't want that to be done to us.

As an aside...
My older daughter was raised by her Muslim first family for 7 years and was converted to Christianity in the orphanage. She attends a liberal Christian church with my parents and is going to a Jewish private school. We have lots of discussions about religion, the differences between these 3, in particular, and how to decide what's right. Her belief in God is something that, right now, is very important to her and I try to foster that (and the idea that she's under no obligation to believe exactly the same as me). I'm excited to see how her beliefs evolve as she grows and understands more and more.

Originally Posted by wvamom

I'm wondering--how can we decide what is "wrong" or "right," or "good" or "evil," without a concept of God? I guess what I am asking is, how is there any good or evil, apart from just personal preference, of course, if there is no God? If I decide to harm someone else, who is there to say that is a "bad" thing? It might seem like a "good" thing, as far as I am concerned. And without any ultimate arbiter, who is to say that I am wrong?
Carolyn

[churchvillemom]

I agree with a couple of the other posters that you don't have to be religious to be moral and to instill good morals in your children. I feel a great example of this was the home I was raised in.

I was raised in a household by parents who are two of the most kind, genuine, moral, honest, loving people I know but they do not take part in any organized religion. They were wonderful examples of how to treat others, with respect, kindness, and tolerance and they instilled those values in their children because they "walked the talk" and truly believed the things they told us. My parents would often say things like, "It's a great day to be alive" and "You've got to count your blessings" and "Most people are basically good" and "Nobody is weird, just different". Those phrases could all have involved God or religion in some way but they didn't and they still provided us with a great moral code and outlook on life.

Another great thing my parents did was to take us to different kinds of churches. I think they wanted us to be able to choose to be religious or not without any guilt, just so long as we were good people. With our kids, we send them to a church based preschool but do not attend church regularly but are considering starting again our our locoal Unitarian Universalist Church when our kids get a bit older to expose them to people of all faiths who are joining in the goal of doing good in the community just because it's the right thing to do.

Good luck to you.

[jcm]

My DH and I were struggling with the same question. I am an agnostic, bordering on atheist, whereas my husband is agnostic, with a touch of humanist thrown in.

Brought up as a Catholic, I always felt forced to believe. That unless I did what "they" told me, I would burn in hell...for eternity. Long story short, that just doesn't make sense to me. I don't need a god to tell me I should love my neighbor, to be forgiving, or compassionate, generous, and decent.

I want our kids to decide for themselves what religion they want to practice, if any. We recently found a Unitarian Universalist church here in town, and fell in love.

The principles for UU's are all built on the inherent worth and dignity of every person. I believe if you start from there, most morals or values are no-brainers. When I live my life with that principal in mind, I am the example I want my kids to emulate.

[amyfk]

I was thinking more on this topic today. I dont see anything wrong if you don't feel that you and your husband believe and don't want to belong to an organized religion. I think there's probably more agnostic and atheists out there than I realize.
I think I would get some books perhaps that expose your kids to the major organized religions or at least be willing to answer questions on the basic religions if your kids come to you and ask you someday. I dont think you have to visit a Church, Synagogue or Mosque though if not comfortable. I would let my kids know that organized religion does exist and that many families are members of religious groups, so that when your kids are adults they have an option to join one, however, if they dont believe either, then I dont see anything wrong with that.

Best wishes,
Amy K< NJ

[ourdreamcametru]

Please don't take this the wrong way, I'm just trying to understand. As a Christian I am wondering how do you live by the Golden Rule, which was made by God, if you are atheist? Like I said, I am just trying to understand as I dont' know much about atheism.
To answer the OP question, no, I do not believe you can raise moral children/families if you do not have religion. For us God is the center of everything we do and with Him all things are possible.

Originally Posted by kerriv

I'm atheist. I decide what's right or wrong basically using the golden rule. I teach my daughters that we try not to do anything that would cause someone else pain or sorrow because we wouldn't want that to be done to us.

As an aside...
My older daughter was raised by her Muslim first family for 7 years and was converted to Christianity in the orphanage. She attends a liberal Christian church with my parents and is going to a Jewish private school. We have lots of discussions about religion, the differences between these 3, in particular, and how to decide what's right. Her belief in God is something that, right now, is very important to her and I try to foster that (and the idea that she's under no obligation to believe exactly the same as me). I'm excited to see how her beliefs evolve as she grows and understands more and more.

[Betelnut]

I'm an atheist, raised by atheists. Obviously, I feel that it is possible to raise a moral, good person without superstitious belief! I feel that if you model, as well as explain, the type of behavior that you feel is important, i.e. kindness to people and other living creatures, curiosity, empathy, politeness, etc., your child will learn these behaviors and ways of being.

WVAMom--it is quite possible to know the difference between right and wrong without a god being in the equation. Most of (even religious) morality is based on the pragmatic knowledge that helping and caring behavior helps the helper too. Besides, what is "right" and "wrong" does change, shockingly. As for human rights--unfortunately, they are taken away, quite frequently, by other people who, frequently, worship a god.


Anyway, back to the OP, a good book on this topic is "Parenting beyond belief."

Parenting Beyond Belief: On Raising Ethical, Caring Kids Without Religion

[Quesita]

What a great discussion! Sorry to be joining it late.

My father was an atheist. My mom an agnostic. Extended family Catholic on mom's side, Agnostic/Jewish on dad's side. I was exposed to many different belief systems as a child, and taught critical thinking and respect.

Although I consider myself a spiritual person who draws on universal truths that exist in many different belief systems, I feel that I owe my moral development to my atheist father.

My father taught me empathy. And he taught me to always consider the consequenses of my actions. I learned these lessons from a very young age. How do you feel when so and so doesn't share with you? You feel sad? Feeling sad hurts, doesn't it? Now look. You are not sharing with so and so? How does so and so feel? Sad? Hurt? You know how that feels. She feels that way because you are not sharing.

As I grew, so did my understanding of the consequences of my actions. I was taught that every life is precious. I was also taught that every action we take in our own lives has the potential to impact positively or negatively on someone else's life. The effects can be small and personal, or huge and global. I was taught that we had a short time on this earth, and that we could have a positive impact, or a negative impact.

Today, as an adult, my desire to make ethical decisions is a driving force in my life. I understand that I am priveleged beyond conception compared to much of the world. I have never wanted for food. I have running water. Electricity. Heat. Leisure time. I am literate. I have freedom to think and say and write what I believe.

What I do with this privelege defines me. Do I use my privelege to consume more and more? Do I use my privelege to distract myself from the realities that exist in most of the world, so that I don't have the think about the billions of human beings who have have not eaten yet today? Or do I dedicate my life to using my privelege to help others seek comfort and even joy?

I've chosen that latter. For the past 25 years (yeah, I'm old) I've worked with refugees, immigrants and other displaced peoples. In the 1980's I lived in Mexico and worked with Guatemalans and Salvadorans fleeing the civil war. Today I live in NYC and work with immigrants and refugees from all over the world. And I am the mom to a little girl whose life was impacted by the aftermath of that same civil war that impacted my life as a young adult.

I have a LOT more to say on this topic!

Arthymom, I strive to be as good a parent to my daughter as my parents were to me. And I strive to instill in her the deep set of values that my atheist father instilled in me.

[Longing2bMom]

I don't think religion really has too much to do with a person's morality. I have friends who proclaim to be atheists who are decent, moral, honest people. I also know some atheists who are complete jerks. By the same token, I have friends who proclaim to be highly religious who are decent, moral, honest people. And I know some who seem to leave their religion's teachings at the church door as they exit services every Sunday. I think a person's upbringing and the values that were instilled by their parents is so much more important than what religion they follow. Certainly religion can be used as a foundation to teach values, but there are other ways that work just as well.