[DeeVee]

Need support here before I lose my mind! Why does DD not give one iota about even trying to go on the potty? She is 3 1/2 years old. We have tried everything. The problem, as I see it, is that she just does not care. Nothing motivates her, whether I try positive reinforcement or negative (giving stickers, a special treat -- withholding a privilege, etc). She knows when she has to go, because she has done it successfully -- but she just does not care if she soils or wets herself. I have tried no undergarments, staying home all day giving beverages, and she will pee and poop on the floor and NOT EVEN CARE! It can be running down her lesgs and she just goes on playing. Her peers at VBS last week were asking her why she still wears "baby pants" - you'd think she would be embarrassed -- but she just doesn't answer them and goes on playing. I am ready to just keep her in diapers until kindergarten at this point.

Thanks for letting me vent -- I'm sure there is no advice and I just need to give it more time, but she will go to pre-school in two weeks, which means she will have to sit in her wet diaper till I come and get her each day. She won't poo at school-- she went all last year without ever doing it there (she knows they won't change her) so obviously she can choose when and where to go.

At what point will she start to just do this on her own? Are there any five year olds in diapers? Six year olds? You'd think with five kids I could get a grip on this, but she just baffles me.

[EZ2Luv]

Gee I wish I could wave a magic wand and solve all your ptty traing woes. I have only experience with boys, who were much easier in comparison to some of the girls I have heard about. None the less, the ONLY thing that works is going comando for an entire weekend. Forget the bribes. Stay in the yard or outside so there are't any floor accidents. Then take her to potty every 15 minutes. You really have to dedicate the one weekend. My friend tried everything with her DD and I mean everything. This is what I did with the boys while we were at MIL summer cottage (I have no yard here).

She was almost 4 and would go in the closet to do her business. It helps if you know her bathroom habits too. For instance 1/2 hour after a meal. After a while she will get the hang of it. It also could very well be that you both are burnt out from trying and are frustrated. Maybe give it a week with diapers and no pressure, the dedicate the week end. The 15 minute method was the charm because eventually A had to relieve herself. Key is consistancy to and not to let become a "battle" or pwer struggle. Another suggestion is any floor accidents must be cleaned up by the child. A did not like having to clean the floor in the closet one bit and put up quite the protest.
Hang in there, unless there is a medical need I really don't know any kids going to school in diapers.

EZ

[DPline]

You have just described both of my boys to a 't.' They just didn't give a rip. Peer pressure, being messy, rewards, punishments, inside, outside, underwear, commando, every tried and true 'if you do this they will be trained in one day' method, you name it. Nothing worked. They did not care. And trust me. I offered them the moon and the stars! (If one more person said 'all you have to do is . . . ' I would have become homocidal!) We had done EVERYTHING and I knew perfectly well they could. They were just choosing not to.

What ended up working in the end was I gave up and just stopped pushing the issue, but they wore underwear and were only allowed on the hard surface floors. Not the carpet. I didn't present it as a punishment. Just that I was sick and tired of cleaning the carpets and if they were going to pee on the carpet, they couldn't be on the carpet. They could have toys, books, whatever, but there was no hard surface floor where they could see the TV. A couple days of no television and they decided that maybe using the potty wasn't such a bad idea.

Yes, there are 5 and 6 year olds still in pullups. And their horribly frustrated parents. But there are, do don't let anyone make you feel badly. (Don't even get me started on my DD who was easy as pie to train and would pee on the toilet at 2.5 put didn't poop on the toilet until age 5!) They will however not go to junior high in pullups. Have faith!

Good luck! I have been there and feel for you!

[robandjulie]

I only have experience with my 2, and every kid is different so I can't really give you much you probably haven't tried.

Has she picked out fun underwear that she would really like? With DD it was a combination of getting to put stamps/tattoos on her hands and arms when she went or tried and getting to wear her Dora and Princess underwear. DS was mostly motivated b/c I told him he couldn't go to VBS until he was potty trained (their rule) and literally that day he pushed himself to start training. Within a week he was fully trained.

Both kids were really really predictable with their poops and we had for a month or two leading up to that had a habit of putting them on the potty 10 mins after breakfast and 10 mins after dinner. If they got it in the potty they got a lollipop. If they made a mess and a grownup had to clean it up, WE got a lollipop. And ate it in front of them with lots of yumming. Yes, we're cruel. We did cloth diapers and so poop had to be shaken/sprayed into the potty, so we would clean the child up and re-diaper, but then keep the child in the bathroom with us while we cleaned the diaper, we'd all wash hands then we'd all go to the lollipop bucket and I'd pick it out and eat it. We did NOT at any time shame the child, yell at the child, or in any way imply they were bad for not going in the potty, just pointing out that "he who gets the poo in the potty gets the rewards." Also? If you poo in your pants it takes way longer to get back to playing (have to get diaper all changed and then wait for it to get cleaned up) than if you just go on the potty. Oh, and "he who gets the poo in the potty also gets the ultimate priviledge of flushing it." Again, not shaming or punishing or yelling, just a simple statement that his is how it works in this house. Sorry you are disappointed kiddo, better luck next time.

Once it moved into an interest in potty training and wearing cloth, we'd bend over backwards at first to help.

The first few days I would ask every 15-20 mins to try. If they tried and nothing happened: 1 M&M. If they tried and urinated: 2 M&Ms. Poops earned a lollipop, as always.

They started the day in their preferred character underwear. There was always a light but clear discussion about how Cinderella (or Wall-E or Spiderman or Dora) like to stay clean and dry. And that if they get dirty or wet they'll have to go in the wash.

If they had accidents but had been trying cooperatively and making a real effort, we'd clean it up together and get new Dora/Cinderella/Wall-E, etc. And no candy for anyone (well, ok, I snuck some M&Ms...).

If they refused to try and had an accident shortly thereafter, we'd calmly (-ish, somedays are easier than others...) clean it up together and put our preferred character pants in the wash, and I'd say that if they weren't going to try to keep Cinderella (or whatever) clean and dry that they'd have to wear the plain ones (we have a stash of 3 plain training-pants diapers for backups and sick-tummy days). For our kids, that was a horrible punishment. They'd beg and plead for another chance to keep (whoever) clean and dry and I'd agree. 15-20 mins later when I'd ask them to try the potty if they fussed I'd casually say "oh...I guess we should put the cinderella pants away if you aren't going to try to keep her clean and dry...." and that was enough to need to prove me wrong.

After day 2 I stretched it to a casual "hey, are you still clean and dry?" every 15-20 mins and a "Hey, let's try the potty" every 30-45 mins. "yes" on C&D got an M&M, sticker, or just a woo-hoo, depending on the location and the time of day. By day 4 it was just a "still clean and dry? woohoo" every 30-45 mins and a "you need to use the potty before we go...(outside, to the store, to grandmas, to bed, to sit at the dinner table, etc)" if they had not already gone.

One thing I make a real effort to avoid is associating pottying with the end of an activity. I really really make an effort to say "let's go potty and then we can do more puzzles/blocks/coloring, etc" so they don't always think that going potty has to end your fun so you hold it and hold it just to get a few more minutes of coloring. And if there's already a natural break to the day (we're done coloring so we can eat lunch) then I try to encourage going to the bathroom then. But I avoid avoid avoid something like "oh, you have to go potty? Then let's go in the house and we're done outside anyhow" even if they'd been right in the middle of playing in the sandbox with no indication of that ending soon. I hope that makes sense.

Good luck!!

[SKL]

One thing I have noticed is that as soon as I get frustrated enough to post on this forum, my kids turn around the next day! Or so it seems! Remember, they are placed on this earth to prove us wrong. I hope this works for you too!

Not much help, I know . . . but the day will come when you hardly remember what potty training was like . . . .

Good luck!

[Pipercub]

My oldest (smart as a whip - reading at age 3) was like this. Drove me nuts. Finally I gave up. Sometime when she was four she finally decided she'd do it.

Someone asked me my thoughts on potty training and I had this to share...

I think most mothers probably have the happy realization at some point that there is something that they do especially well with their kids. For some it might be the ability to find creative ways to get their child to try new foods. For others it might be instilling of love of brushing their teeth. ("Oh yes, dear. Princesses do brush their teeth after every meal. If you brush your teeth you'll be just like Cinderella!") For others, it maybe the ability to talk about serious topics with them in an age appropriate manner. These moments of discovery give us each hope that "Hey. I'm doing something right. My kids might turn out okay after all."

The flip side of this is that most of us also discover at some point about something "Hey. I'm really awful at this." For me, my discovery started out with a flash of doubt when Lily Grace turned two and grew into a overwhelming confirmation of failure when she turned four. Twenty-four months of potty training and we still didn't have it down.

I've known a few mothers who had their kids potty trained as soon as they could walk. You've probably met these super-moms. While other mothers of toddlers lament the trials and tribulations of pull-ups, potty seats, and accidents, they smuggly report how junior, at age eleven months, potty trained himself in only one day.

But, no, this was not our experience at all. Twenty-four months of potty training. I had read every book. Heard every piece of (solicited and unsolicited) advice the "super-moms" had to give. I would not being joining their exclusive group. Heck, without even knowing it, I probably became part of a totally different group: the "what-kind-of-mother-is-she-her-kid-is-four-and-is-still-not-potty-trained" group.

Thankfully, even though it was much later than I had hoped, and just like everyone had promised me, Lily Grace did eventually become potty trained later that year.

So it is now with not-so-much enthusiasm that I start out on the path towards getting Susanna potty trained. I've pretty much resigned myself to the fact that I am defective in my approach to the process...dooming her (and myself) to another twenty-four months of pullups, potty seats, and accidents. I did however have a glimmer of hope this morning. Susanna had been playing and suddenly came up to me to say, "Potty. Potty." The she made grunting sounds and pressed on her tummy. (I showed her this signal, you see, when she sits on the potty to try to demonstrate what she should do to go. Ha!) I very quickly took her to the restroom. Nothing happened, and after a minute or two she used her sign language for "all done," hopped off, and happily went back to playing.

It still remains to be seen how hard and how long the process will take with my second little firecracker. I'm holding out hope that, while I wont be joining the "super-mom" group (yet again), that maybe, just maybe, I can join the "mom-that-learned-something-along-the-way-with-child-number-one-and-does-a-better-job-with-child-number-two" group. Ask me in twenty-four months how we're doing.

Followup note: That was written more than a year ago. Susanna is now 3. She is not fully potty trained. I'm okay with that! LOL I have no doubt a more disciplined, more patient mom would have her trained by now. But I'm not that mom. I'm me. So we keep trying in a way that works for us and doesn't make me crazy. And somewhere along the line, I know she'll "get it."

Hang in there!

[blessedbytwo]

I have a 3 1/2 year old boy who refuses the potty and will hold his pee till he gets an U.T.I. I have bought every charater underware, sticker, book, toy, chart. Read all the websites, talked to doctor about it etc.

Nothing works....and I am pretty sure if one more person ask me if he is potty trained and tells me how easy it was for their child I am going to scream.

We have decided to wait for now. I will have a 4 year old who is just learning how to go potty.

[robandjulie]

Originally Posted by robandjulie

DS was mostly motivated b/c I told him he couldn't go to VBS until he was potty trained (their rule) and literally that day he pushed himself to start training.
...

Once it moved into an interest in potty training and wearing cloth, we'd bend over backwards at first to help.

Sorry, the more I thought about this today I realized that you don't really need potty training tips so much as a magic way to make this part happen. Sorry to miss the real question there.

Does she have to go to pre-k? Does she really really want to go to pre-k? Could you tell her that she can't go until she stays clean & dry? And if you play that card can you stick to it? I know you said nothing like rewards or incentives have worked but, honestly, until she feels motivated to do it (internally or externally motivated; either way or both) I think you hit the nail on the head when you said she's not interested and doesn't care.

I agree with PP's, too. Maybe a week hiatus without so much as a mention of it. After a week maybe bring home some fancy underpants or pull out her fancy pants and talk about how fun it'll be to wear those when she's ready to potty train but she'll have to stay clean & dry to wear them. No pressure, no guilt, just the facts. See if that gets her in the mood. And if not, maybe set a random date on the calendar and call it "diaper free day" with the understanding that every and all diaper-related things will be packed up that day and it will be big-girl day and if she can't/won't stop wetting on the floor then institute a "no carpet, no couches" rule until she can. Again, no shaming, no ridicule, just the facts and rules of the house.

As long as you KNOW there's no medical reason for it and it's just a lack of motivation or unwillingness to try, that is.

[Devora]

It's a challenge --- But the thing I remind myself with my son who is also incredibly internally motivated (no amount of bribing helps for anything) is that when he's older that's exactly how I want him to be -- internally motivated! Internal motivation will contribute to greater responsibility, taking initiative, and all sorts of other mature behaviors that we want our children to grow into....it's just incredibly inconvenient at this age.

Not much help, but it's my one consolation.

[joepegcamp]

My nephew was like this. Drove my brother and sister in law nuts. This is what they did:

Took him to the pediatrician to rule out anything odd. He got a clean bill of health.

They each took a few days off from work so they could be home with him all week. (My brother took two days, my sister in law three.)

They put the kid in underpants.

Once he wet himself, HE had to clean it up. All of it. HE had to throw his clothes in the washing machine and when they were dry, HE had to fold his underpants and put them away. During this time, there was no television, no playing, nothing. Just sitting in a chair waiting for the underpants to dry. (Or he was cleaning up the mess.)

They told him that this was the new reality. He messes it up. He cleans it up.

It also helped that he wanted to play with his play group, but his parents told him NO! Not until you use the big boy potty.

It was the manual labor that did it.

My nephew is the most stubborn kid on the planet and his parents tried everything under the sun. Finally, they took a hard line approach and things worked out themselves out.

I've filed this away for when we hit the "this is ridiculous stage." Right now, I'm in the "son running around half-naked yelling NO MAMA" stage. I'm sure I'll get to my breaking point, too.

[JillnChris]

Sorry I'm sure this is so frustrating. I can only imagine how frustrating. I am in the 4th week of potty training DD.
The only advice I can give you is to let it go for now. Have you tried just putting everything potty training related away for a couple of weeks and then coming back to it with a fresh new start?
I'm sure you have tried everything under the sun and have gotten a ton of advice and I know that is really frusturating but I'm gonna tell you what we did anyway.
We have a potty training dvd called "no more diapers" that dd loves to watch and we sing the songs together. She has a doll that uses the potty and we make a big deal out of it every time the doll goes.
I bought a sticker chart and wrote on the 5th day "Big Party" we talked about the party a lot and I told her if she got 4 stickers a day she would have a big party with guests and cake and everything. The second week I wrote on the chart "Big Prize" and told her that if she got 4 stickers everyday we would go to the store and she could pick out a "Big Prize" (within reason, money wise).
I have a little potty that I keep out at all times, I keep her in underware while we are at home (or nothing at all). I remind her a lot, at first it was every 15 minutes, then 30, now it is about an hour. Everytime she has an accident I place her on the potty (has something to do with muscle memory.
Dr Phil has some information on his website that I got some of my ideas from. One of the things he says is you have to find what motivates your child, who are her heroes? I thought about having one of the disney characters call to congratulate her (which you can do on disney's website) but we never had to get to that point.

Have you talked to her pediatrician about it? From what I've read potty training up until age 4 is not out of the realm of normalcy.

[shelbydog]

I feel you pain. My son, now 7, was SOOOOO difficult. He would hold his poop for days. We tried everything - every bribe, trick, doctor - you name it. What finally worked was just dropping the issue. We had one "final" talk with him. Told him to do it when he was ready. We were done talking about it. Removed the pressure. He finally did it, when HE was ready. He was 4 when he was finally, completely potty trained.

Looking back, ugh - it gave me SO much stress. I wish I would have just relaxed about it. Easier said than done, I know!

There are 3 "areas" that a child has to be ready in - to potty train. One is emotionally, one is intellectually, and one is physically. One or a few might be not quite ready. My advice to you would be to drop the subject. Put her in pullups and try again in a few months.

I know WHY preschools have their "potty training" requirements but it still irks me. All kids are different. Potty training is a skill, and IMHO much more complicated than knowing letters, numbers, etc....yet there are no requirements for other things, KWIM?! Just age and that they be potty trained.

Good luck - try not to stress. Tell the super-mom's to be quiet, and just wait....it ALL comes full circle as they get older.....they will have their struggles too.

[Travelkid]

Diane, You are singing my song.

I've tried everything and Jamie will use the potty 60% of the time at home and NEVER in public. I've tried it ALL and now I am giving up. Seriously, we are not even talking about it now as I am at my wits end.

I have hardwood floors at home (although he did have an accident on my oriental rug ) so I take that in stride, but peeing on me while I'm holding him, in the cart at Target, Costco (after I ask him several times if he goes potty) is getting old. Like Carolina, he does not care. So he is back in diapers in public as I can't take any more .

I'll let you know if I find a solution, please do the same for me. In the meantime, I'm scared I'll be posting on the forum in three years where to find pull-ups for a first grader .

[DPline]

Beautifully said Pipercub! That just made my day.

And you too Devora. I am going to keep chanting to myself that internal motivation is a great thing!

Debbie
Mom to three interally motivated and totally unbribable (at least when it comes to potty training) kids


ETA: Travelkid - Hang in there. I have been there and all three of mine did finally potty train, and I was SURE I would never see the day. It WILL happen!

[Mariais5]

Didn't have time to read other's posts, but your daughter sounds EXACTLY like my son.. No worries... He is now 16 and has been out of diapers for many years! ;-)

When SHE decides she wants to wear underware, she will.. The up side to her waiting so long is that there will be very few accidents.. My son decided one day that he wanted to use the toilet and was trained.. Like you, we had tried EVERYTHING up until that point. It just happened.

I will warn you that once they decide they want underware, you will be visiting EVERY bathroom of EVERY store, restaurant, place of business, rest area, etc...