[SKL]

My girls' nanny has been with us for 17 months. I have decided to put the girls in a full-time preschool/daycare program this fall. The timing is important because I feel the nanny's difficulty with English is confusing the girls and delaying their speech progress. (Now that they are speaking in sentences, they are picking up her incorrect usage, e.g., "yesterday I go to my niece house and he say . . . .") I thought giving the nanny 3 months notice was reasonable but she is very upset. So I am wondering, what would you all have done, and is there something more I should do for her? I have no desire to hurt her, only to do what's right for my kids.

[Hadley2]

Feed two birds with one hand: If you like her on all other counts and your girls thrive in the home environment with a single caregiver (1:2 ratio; what would it be in preschool?) why not simply have the nanny not speak English? Your girls will grow up bilingual, a huge advantage to know two languages and an even bigger one in that it will develop brain function which will make it very much easier for them to learn even more languages as they grow up.

[SKL]

Originally Posted by Hadley2

Feed two birds with one hand: If you like her on all other counts and your girls thrive in the home environment with a single caregiver (1:2 ratio; what would it be in preschool?) why not simply have the nanny not speak English? Your girls will grow up bilingual, a huge advantage to know two languages and an even bigger one in that it will develop brain function which will make it very much easier for them to learn even more languages as they grow up.

I've been asking her since last fall to transition to speaking only Spanish with the girls. She has made progress in that direction, but still speaks in English much of the time and always speaks to me in English. Despite my repeated requests to be more conscious of her English grammar, when she talks to me (in front of the girls) every other word is either badly mispronounced or gramatically misused. Meanwhile she is encouraging the girls to tell their side of the story by largely mimicking her English. I end up correcting her in front of the girls, which I don't like. It's just not working. She mentioned once that she had an opportunity to go to a weekend English class, but she decided not to. So I feel she isn't taking the English thing seriously.

The other aspect of the timing is that it may be more difficult for the girls to get a spot at any other time of year (openings happen in the fall). Maybe if this wasn't an issue, we could stretch it out to January if she promised (again) to try harder on the language.

[bethy724]

Can your girls go to Pre-school part time & you can keep her part time? Is the issue her English or your desire to get your girls in the structure & positive aspects of Pre-school? If you want your girls in Pre-school that is where they should be - if you could keep her part time for holidays, sick days ect.. maybe everybody can be happy.

[SKL]

Originally Posted by bethy724

... if you could keep her part time for holidays, sick days ect.. maybe everybody can be happy.

This is true, I don't know why I didn't mention it to her today (had thought about it but forgot in all the stress). Maybe I could pay her some sort of retainer to be on call until she finds something else. I couldn't keep up the same pay though - she makes twice as much as the preschool fees will be. I will talk to her about this tomorrow.

[DianeS]

I think three months notice is just fine for a nanny. That's what my SIL got when the kids she nannied for were going to be sent to preschool.

Of course she's upset. She likes your girls, she likes you, and she likes the job. Probably likes that it's a good, regular, well-paying job too. I'd be concerned if she WASN'T upset.

One thing to be aware of is the chance you have of losing her because another job comes along before the date of the preschool start. Employeers who are closing stores run into this too, and often deal with it by offering a bonus to any employee who stays through the end of the last day. The bonus is often equal to a couple weeks' pay. That makes the employees willing to stay throught the end even if another job is offered that starts a week earlier. So you may want to consider that. Especially if you can't afford to have her leave a week or two earlier than the new daycare starts.

About using her for babysitting/sick days - that's probably a GREAT idea. The children have an attachment to her, and are going to be sad they don't see her any more. They'll probably love the new situation, but you don't want the nanny to just "disappear" from their lives.

That said, you really don't need to offer her a "retainer" of any sort for that. What you're willing to pay her really shouldn't depend on what else she's done or who else has offered her a position. I'd be generous with your per-hour babysitting pay, and use her frequently for a while. But if you pay a retainer for her, how long will you do that if she doesn't find anything? What if she does find something but doesn't take it because she's happier on your retainer? Would you expect her to cancel other babysitting opportunities to sit for you, if she were on retainer? I'm sure you can see how the retainer idea can get sticky.

It might be better to skip the retainer and just go with a good bonus for staying to the last day, and good hourly fees for the babysitting you use her for. Make sure she feels appreciated. A good "thank you for everything" gift could be a photo album of the girls, a sentimental thank you card, some flowers, things like that.

[loveajax]

I think three months is more than fair - - most employers only give/expect two weeks notice! I like Diane's idea because I can see her "actively looking" now that she knows she is going to be let go. And I like the idea of telling her you plan to continue to use her (if she is willing and available) for other times.

I have never "fired" anyone either professionally or personally (I am a total wimp!), so I know it must be stressful. Good luck!

[SKL]

Originally Posted by DianeS

One thing to be aware of is the chance you have of losing her because another job comes along before the date of the preschool start.

First of all, thanks for the support and ideas! (That goes for the other commenters too!)

I have a sister who is currently laid off and is filling in on the nanny's days off, so I told the nanny that if she gets a job that can't wait until September for her to start, she could leave earlier. She didn't seem to like hearing that, but I think she's just in shock generally. (I really feel like a creep right now.)

[guatparents2be]

you need to do what is right for the girls. imho 3 months is very reasonable. i would be in hog heaven if my staff gave me that much notice before leaving.

that said i kind of wonder if she really understood the issue? maybe she doesn't think her grammar is that bad and she is working on both her english and the transition you asked for and thought that it was ok?

now that it is clear, if you focus on that, and gush on her with how much you really want her to stay but that you want your kids to have her native language, if she might be willing to do that with the girls at all times? no transition. just spanish. we did this with our son in immersion school and i'm sure it was a rough week or two but they catch on so quickly, especially if it's all in spanish.

we've had several transitions for julian due to a number of issues, but if there is a fix for the situation he's in, all the better. and for your girls to have spanish? well, you know how i feel about that.

[Carrie7310]

Three months is MORE than enough time. I am sure this is hard for her, but you must do what you think is best for your kids. I know very few employers or employees that would give three months notice. IMHO, you are being generous. Don't beat yourself up!

[MishMosh]

Agree that you are being more than reasonable with the 3 months and I wouldn't do a retainer -- just end it on the best possible note. It's just a hard hard thing to do.

I may be in the same place soon, as we may be getting into a fall preschool (would be great for DD!) and leaving our nanny. Not looking forward to it, especially since the other family we shared her with recently moved away & she took it really hard. Like "distraught hard", so I'm dreading causing that for her, ugh.

[EZ2Luv]

I agree that 3 months is very generous. Also agree that you must do what you feel is best for your girls. If they are going to preschool you may want to also to the nanny that this is good for them to get some socialization with other children as well. This way she doesn't feel so bad about the language. Realistically though, there will come a time when the girls will go to school and not need a full time nanny. SO you one step ahead of what is to come. Kids grow up and needs change, no need to feel like this is os out of the ordinary. I know you probably feel bad because you genuinly like this nanny but this is life.

EZ

[SKL]

Originally Posted by MishMosh

I may be in the same place soon, as we may be getting into a fall preschool (would be great for DD!) and leaving our nanny. Not looking forward to it, especially since the other family we shared her with recently moved away & she took it really hard. Like "distraught hard", so I'm dreading causing that for her, ugh.

Good luck to you! It really is hard. I now find myself wishing that I never had an "open ended" arrangement with the nanny, but I am not sure it would have been possible to do otherwise.

She seems to be getting over the shock and hopefully is seeing positive possibilities now. It was just a really hard couple of days.

Thanks again to everyone for the support and for always being there for times like this.

[JustBarbara]

Originally Posted by SKL

First of all, thanks for the support and ideas! (That goes for the other commenters too!)

I have a sister who is currently laid off and is filling in on the nanny's days off, so I told the nanny that if she gets a job that can't wait until September for her to start, she could leave earlier. She didn't seem to like hearing that, but I think she's just in shock generally. (I really feel like a creep right now.)

I don't have a nanny but I do remember you being so very happy to have a nanny that spoke Spanish. I do think three months notice is quite sufficient unless ... she somehow had expectations that she would be their nanny until they start school? I'm just wondering what HER expectations of a regular job were. In this job market, three months is not a long time to find another job (I heard on NPR this morning that now is the highest percentage of folks still looking for work after a year's lay-off in over 25 years). And with this economy, hiring a nanny is probably the last thing on many people's lists.

And while I think it is wonderful that you told her it was okay for her to leave before September (because basically she knows you already have back-up - your sister) I can only imagine that yes, she is in shock and also saddened by this rather sudden end to the relationship. Personally, if I heard that yes, feel free to accept another job if one comes along, it would not feel warm and fuzzy. Just my opinion - and I am not in your shoes so please take it with a grain of salt. It is not an easy position to be in - she clearly loves your children and it is going to be a difficult transition. But it would be difficult whenever they start school and are without a nanny.

The relationship between employer/employee is very different than a nanny/family - the latter being much more personal. The employee does not care necessarily about the employer (I'm not talking about small family-owned businesses) but a nanny/family relationship is much more complex. On the other hand (how many do I have left ) if given three months notice some employees tend to goof off, spend their work time looking for a job etc. Unlikely to happen with a nanny because she will be there. I've seen it in my current workplace where people are getting 60 days notice and they are, by and large, not contributing to the institution anywhere near the level they were before the notice. Good luck. Ultimately, you have to do what you think is right for you and your family and your decision might not make you feel great but it is what it is.

[SKL]

Originally Posted by JustBarbara

I don't have a nanny but I do remember you being so very happy to have a nanny that spoke Spanish. I do think three months notice is quite sufficient unless ... she somehow had expectations that she would be their nanny until they start school? I'm just wondering what HER expectations of a regular job were.

She said that when I hired her in January 2008 she was led to believe it was a "long term" position. I guess in her mind it would not end until the girls were much older, but I am sure I never told her that. I used to think I would not put the girls in full-time day care this soon - maybe around age 4 - so although there was never a promise, she could have picked up on that and got comfortable about it.

But it is impossible to predict how long you are going to keep a nanny. My girls had been home for just 3 months, and at that time, an off-site day care situation would have been horrible for one of my daughters, hence the nanny solution. A lot has changed in the past 1.5 years. In addition, the language issue has gotten increasingly troublesome and I have told her about it many, many times and gave her many ideas and plenty of opportunity to improve. I did not know this would be such a problem when I hired her (at the time she said she was working on improving her English so she could qualify as a public school teacher), but I don't feel that's a reason to keep paying her $150/day for another 1.5 years while my kids' English skills continue to lag. There are other issues too, that are smaller than the language one, but still get under my skin. The cost of having a nanny for 8.5 hours, minus her paid time off, is 2x what I will be paying in a nice day care / preschool arrangement, where the doors are open every day, 12 hours, except for holidays. The only justification to pay so much is that she would do things the way I wanted them, which hasn't been the case in many respects. To be honest, it would have made sense to make the switch last fall or winter, but I didn't want to hurt the nanny as long as my kids were doing OK. And, honestly, I was surprised that Nanny didn't have a sense that things weren't going well, considering that I spoke to her every other day about my concerns.

It is sad that the kids will lose the Spanish lessons (they teach Spanish and French at the preschool, but probably at a lower level). I may hire the nanny to give them Spanish/art lessons on Saturdays, or I will figure out other ways to maintain their Spanish. My house is full of Spanish-language media and I speak it a little.

Nanny will be free to look for a job during her work hours. She regularly talks on the phone while at my house and conducts business from here, she's free to leave for personal stuff while the kids are napping (I'm usually here), and I've given her many paid days / half-days off to pursue personal business, so that isn't a problem. I also have some ideas to help her if she doesn't find something by September. So here's hoping and praying that we'll all come out of this better.