[stephjoel99]

Mimi is almost 3 - and we adopted her when she was 11 months from foster care. She grieved the loss of her foster mother desperately. In fact after we'd been home a few days or a week, my young son showed her a picture of her foster mother - Mimi sobbed and just kissed the picture over and over "Mama, mama, mama". Heartbreaking.

Okay there's the backstory so we can fast forward.

There was a thread the other day about something similar - but here's what happened: I was showing her pictures of her as a baby. It's kind of a poor man's lifebook, because I haven't gotten that far yet due to the fact that I am completely unorganized. But anyway, there are pictures of her with her foster family.

Mimi pointed to the FM and FF said "That's my mama. And that's my daddy." Then I asked her who the Foster Sister was and she said "That's my sister in Guate-mawa."

I tried to quietly pull my jaw off the floor. And managed a "you know, yes, Mimi, they were your family in Guatemala. And they took care of you and loved you until MOmmy and Daddy could come get you on the airplane (that's part of our adoption "story" with her - the airplane part).

She has NEVER said anything when she saw their pictures before. And I have never offered anything (I hadn't quite figured out how to do it b/c I'm still trying to figure out a way to explain to my daughter that I'm her 3rd mother - haven't gotten that far).

How likely is it that she actually remembers them? It's been 2 years and she was only about a year old when we took her?

[mayaprincess]

From studies that I have read, most children do NOT remember actual events, they recall memories of what they have been told.

I think that you explained it to her very well!

[Mommy K]

If a toddler is verbal before they came home, they can remember things. There is a connection between congnitive memory and language development.

Subconscious memory like scent & things are different.This occurs from birth.

[AngelsMama]

I'm sure it can happen. I brought my daughter home at 8 months old and she completely flips every time the luggage comes out or we stay at a hotel. She is so afraid I will just leave her there or that she wn't get to come home wth us. She is nearly two now and we do not discuss her story with her yet.

[stephjoel99]

Originally Posted by Mommy K

If a toddler is verbal before they came home, they can remember things. There is a connection between congnitive memory and language development.

Subconscious memory like scent & things are different.This occurs from birth.

She was an early talker - she had several words when we picked her up (obviously in Spanish) - so much more advanced than my bio kids were at that age that I actually questioned more than once how old she really was.

(But she lost all of them once we returned home - she would FLIP out if she even heard Spanish for 6 months or so)

Like I said I've never told her who the people are in her "lifebook" - ever. But it's probably best I started adding all the players into her adoption story while she's little and just parroting what I say.

[GuatMommy2Be]

I think it's interesting that at 11 mos on my visit she could not handle ANY spanish. Total breakdown. But at 16 mos on pick-up she handled it better.

I'm sure it is possible although shocking. I've shown M photos of her foster mother and she has no reaction whatsoever to it.

Good luck with explaining, it sounds like you're really doing a good job with it!

[TerriBB]

Flora used to flip out in hotels and now she can tell us that she's afraid we'll leave her there! (She came home at 1 year...she's now 3.5 years.)

When we're out of town, we constantly remind her that all four of us are going home together. The last few trips she's wanted to "go home" each evening and she didn't mean the hotel. We just got back from her 6th hotel trip and she did much better.

Flora was very malnourished when she arrived home. She still brings a food item to school each morning and keeps it in her cubby hole - just in case the nuns don't feed her. Our IA doc said that the memory of hunger may never leave from her first year. She's much better behaved at school when she knows that the snack (which always goes uneaten) is stored within her reach!

She would also flip out with the Backyardigans! She would scream NNNOOOOOO at the top of her lungs - this started within the first week she arrived home. Now, 2+ years later, she'll tolerate them if they're on, but if given the choice, she'll watch anything but!

My friend's child (bio) who spoke very late, one day told his mother about 2 girls and his older brother. He said that "they broke that window by playing with a red soccer ball in the house." He was less than a year old when it happened, her dh fixed the window and it was never brought up again. He even said what color the two babysitters hair was! It had happened 2 years before he talked about it! Even if they don't talk, they could be watching and REMEMBERING!!

[mommyto2guatboys]

I think kids have memories that sometimes we can't believe they have. My son was 7 months old when he came home and at age 3 he saw his FM for the first time again and he just wanted to hug her and tell her everything. The connection was unbelievable. I think it is subconcious memories but they are there. Both my boys ages 3 and 4 were just given the choice to go to Disney world or Guatemala on Vacation and they both yelled out that they wanted to to go to Guatemala!

Magen
My family!

[StefB]

Based on my experience with Tiana, I'm convinced there are memories, subconscious or otherwise. Tiana, too, spoke early. She came home at 9.5 months and a full 11 months later, after a dream, said "pacha" for the first time in my presence. That was one of the 4 words they told me Tiana could say at pickup time. I never used that word with her. Not once.

That's the tip of the iceberg. She developed an imaginary Spanish-speaking friend, apparently patterned after her foster brother. She wakes up from dreams talking about her foster family. It took me forever to figure out why she flipped out whenever we drove at night. She was brought to me by car at night. And I could go on.

Stefanie

[stephjoel99]

Originally Posted by StefB

It took me forever to figure out why she flipped out whenever we drove at night. She was brought to me by car at night. And I could go on.

Mimi was the SAME way about elevators. When her foster mother was wailing and carrying on in the Marriott at the hand off, Mimi was screaming and I immediately whisked her into the elevator up to our room. I just had to get her away from all of that carnage. For one solid year she would shake like a leaf and cling to me like a wet cat whenever we would get on an elevator. Somebody on the forum (I think it was angelkisses? said it was likely a manifestation of PTSD)

[Suzeb1]

My daughter turned 6 months old the week she came home and has told me "I cried and cried for you in Guatemala" and she did cry and cry, for her foster mom. We had never talked about it before she told me that. I really think that she has a specific memory of that time, but has replaced her foster mom with me.

I have one memory from before I was 1 year old and three memories from the time I was 1-2 years old. I've verified them with my mom and they actually happened and I remember them from my perspective. Not surprisingly, they are all memories of intense experience (broken bone, surgery, etc) so, I have no problem believing that a child could remember some of the events around his or her adoption.

[kimbo1]

I am begining to suspect it in our 2.5 year old, of all things. (instead of our younger one) We took custody of her at almost 6 months old.....& in most ways her adjustment to our family was completely easy.

But, lately, she says things that make me wonder, & some of her behavior makes me wonder as well. We have friends at church that try to speak to both babies in Spanish, & I try to talk some with them in Spanish as well. She just STARES at them & won't interact-but that STARE (when she usually will totally engage with ANYONE who will talk to her) makes me wonder more than anything else.

We do talk all the time about GT, & one of her favorite things to do is look at a simple photo album we put together of her life in GT & our trips there.

She knows all the players in her story......& calls them all by name. We pray for our "family" left in GT every night, & that is how we really feel (that they are "family," in a way) about those special people there-FF & BF.

Our two adopted are bio-1/2 sibs, BTW. Oh....& they both had the same FF.

[susy...patience]

Yes, I believe our kids do have subconscious memories of Guatemala. I think wired deep in my DD's brain (in US for 10 months now) is a love of black beans, a fondness for Spanish, and memories of her foster mother & some special songs.
We have occassionally listened to a Hispanic lullabye CD but lately one song in particular makes DD cry uncontrollably (and I know it's a song her foster mother sang to her).

My DD also loves to hear words like Nina and Nino and won't say them spontaneously but repeats them like crazy when someone else says them first. I was told she could say these words in Spanish when she first came home -- but I never heard them from her until lately.

[kellum5]

DD came home at almost 2 and I believe she still has memories at 4.5.
When she was almost 3 we were sitting in a Panera and she just started singing this little song about dogs in spanish. So odd. She sang it through a few times and when I asked her about it she said her "mamita" sang it.
I found out later mamita was what she called her FM.
She also would scream whenever anyone spoke spanish to her. It is just recent she will tolerate any spanish.
We frequent a Mexican restuarant and they have watched all our children grow. The two boys will go back to the kitchen with the staff and love the attention. DD won't go anywhere with anyone she considers to "look like me".
She wouldn't even let the women hold her. She would be terrified. I was always afraid she might think we were sending her back,
After all this time she seldom asks for water but rather agua.

[DDAmasa]

Originally Posted by mayaprincess

From studies that I have read, most children do NOT remember actual events, they recall memories of what they have been told.

I think that you explained it to her very well!

This is probably closest to the truth. Current research shows that the part of the brain responsible for personal memories isn't developed enough in children under (approx) age 2 for them to retain these sorts of memories. However it is very easy to implant memories of such events in a child over age 2 or for them to develop false memories from stories, pictures, songs etc.