[begaines]

Hi, I know ya'll probably get so tired of hearing from me. Abby is 4 years old adopted from Guatemala and is the love of my life. Of course we don't believe in spankings. We had some problems a few weeks back with Abby telling the teachers no at school. We have broke her from telling us no at home. She knows better well she had gotten better at school over the past couple of weeks and I thought that maybe she had outgrown all of this. Well this morning was a wonderful morning no problems out of her at all getting her clothes on, brushing her teeth we fixed her hair...etc. It was wonderful. Well she had been at Pre-K for about 1 1/2 hours when I received a phone call from the director of course when I saw her number on my phone I was thinking something was wrong. Well, it was but I was thinking sick or something. So, she told me that the teacher asked Abby to do something and Abby got in her face and told her NO! So, the Director stepped in and told Abby that we don't talk to adults like that and Abby told her "I'm bigger than you" and the director told her that she wasn't and she was a child and you shouldn't talk like that Abby kept telling her "I'm bigger than you". So, Ms. Janel the director asked me if I wanted to speak with Abby I said quickly YES! So, I got on the phone and Abby sounded so sweet and I told her that was unacceptable and that she would lose priveleges to her "stomp" which is her keyboard. Her favortie thing. So, she tells me "I'm sorry mommy" I told her that she needed to tell her teachers sorry.

So, my dh called and the director told him that Abby acted offended when they told her that she was the child. She loves to hang with adults. She is very "growny" acting. For instance at church she would rather sit with the pastors wife than with other children.

I need some advice on how to take care of this situation. What do I do to make her stop acting out this way?

Thanks in advance.

[kaynig]

Beth,
I had a similar issue with my son last week. I actually posted it on our family blog. Go a head and read it. The only advice I have is... I would definitely nip this in the bud. Soon you will blink and this 4 year old will be 15 and doing the same stuff. I wish you luck and believe me I know parenting is hard when you really want to be a good parent and do the right thing.

[Momonthefarm]

You might want to ask if the school would be willing to do an incentive program with your daughter. Something like a sticker for every time she follows directions and then when she gets three stickers a day (or however many you decide) you do something special at home to celebrate. That way she knows you know what is going on at school and the school does not have to worry about rewarding her and not everyone else, etc.....

Make sure whatever behavior she gets the sticker for is crystal clear. Not just be good or listen to the teacher, etc.. She needs to know exactly what is expected of her. You can buy little incentive charts at Staples or any teaching store Walmart might even have them and little stickers too. If you offer to provide them I would think the teacher would have a hard time saying no. It might also help if all of you sat down for a quick meeting to explain how the incentive chart works so there again your daughter knows all the adults in her world are on the same page. Good luck! Renee

[kaynig]

I would have to disagree with a reward program for several reasons. I think it is important to be REAL with your child especially if she is more mature than average. Meaning, she should learn the consequences for her actions. I think pampering your child with unrealistics like rewarding her for being as she should, is confusing. I don't know any adults that get rewarded daily for doing what they are suppose to be doing but I do know that when adults hit people they go to jail. I explained this to my son after he hit a boy in his class. It is REAL LIFE! I don’t want to send him out into the world as an adult and have him think he gets special treatments and have to learn the hard way. Just my thoughts. I am sure you know the best for your own child and I wish you the best of luck.

[dance_muffin]

Totally agree with Momonthefarm! My younger ds's pre-K teacher, gave out positive reinforcement by giving stickers or stamping their hands with cute stamps. Other rewards were getting to hold the flag for the pledge. Some other were being the line leader, teacher helper (help to hand out the arts & crafts) etc.

Discuss with her teachers to let you know (when you pick up) how your dd's day went. Have them tell you the positive things she did in class that day. With her standing there, you should make a "big deal" on hearing about the wonderful things she did that day.

[Slatond10]

No advise ... but think it is wonderful that the Pre K director called you and let you talk to DD. I think I would make sure I told them how much I appreciated that!

I also think your removal of "stomper" was a good move. Sounds to me like you are already taking the actions that need to be taken and have the support of the school!

[Devora]

I don't have any clear advice, but rather another wrench to throw into the mix...

We set ourselves and our children up when we use absolute rules with them. The fact is that there are times when children do need to say "no" to adults in assertive and even forceful ways. In another year or so your daughter is likely to be taught in school about situations when she should say "no" in just the way she did. For example, "no / run / tell" is a basic dictum of stranger safety and good touch/bad touch curricula. So from that perspective I disagree with telling a child that they should never talk to an adult like that. Because you want her to talk like that when she senses she is in danger.

Now, the fact is that in that situation she was not in danger. What she needs is to learn when it's appropriate to say "no" like that to an adult and how to handle her emotions in other situations when it's not that she's in danger. With my son (a strong-willed, assertive guy) I find that if I explain different scenarios he does understand it and is far more agreeable than if I lay it down as a rule that he is never to speak that way. More important than whether or not he's agreeable is the fact that absolute rules (when in fact there are exceptions) are confusing to kids. They see that there are exceptions and then they don't know what to do and/or they take advantage of the ambiguity.

I think it's great when a pre-K works with parents as a team. However, I'm not so sure about calling home in a situation like this. It would depend on why they were doing it. If they were aghast at her behavior and wanted you to fix it, then they don't understand much about child development and the normal, wide range of behaviors. If they're trying to work as a team then what you need are adult-adult discussions about the strategies you're going to use at preK and at home so you're sending consistent messages and communicating with one another about what works and what doesn't. For my son, knowing that we communication with his teacher does help a lot. But if they had called home to have me talk with him about something like that he would figure it meant that they were at their wit's end and couldn't control him/the situation and he would take advantage of it.

[JGarrick]

Originally Posted by kaynig

I think pampering your child with unrealistics like rewarding her for being as she should, is confusing. I don't know any adults that get rewarded daily for doing what they are suppose to be doing...

Every working adult I know is rewarded with a regular pay check for doing what they're supposed to be doing. I wouldn't bother showing up for work if I didn't get one. It's not pampering to get paid for a day's work.

For a school age child, going to school is their job. What incentive do they have to do it well? Rewards help make learning fun and help make school something to look forward to, not just something to be endured.

[shelbydog]

I hope you don't mind my frankness, but I would have a serious problem with a teacher or director calling me and putting my child on the phone because she acted up in class! In all of my children's preschools, there would be an immediate consquence - whether it be a few minutes at the "thinking desk", timeout chair - or in my son's 1st grade class, thinking desk or no recess. If it continued, I would expect the teacher to request a conference with the parent.

In this case, she sounds like a very smart little girl who is completely normal. Yes, you want to nip it in the bud, but you are dealing with a major development age, learning independence, etc. She needs strict boundaries in the class, a.e. "this behaviour is not tolerated and this is the consequence." I think a reward system could work but not a daily thing. More like, "If you have a good week you get this..." And perhaps it's a little outing to a park or something more meaningful than a sticker. My concern with the reward system is that for very bright kids, this can turn into a "manipulation" system. I don't think a 4 year old should be rewarded with stickers for being polite and respectful in school. Maybe for doing something extra special - above and beyond.

Mia is almost 4, in a rebellious stage at school. Her teachers are well on top of it and I take it upon myself to check in with the teacher every few weeks to see how things are going. I would be aghast if they called and put her on the phone with me.

[ourdreamcametru]

I personally think this is a very normal stage around this age and that there should be very set things that happen when and where this happens. At home you might take away special toys, time out etc and at school time out, setting out of playtime etc. I also think that giving a special treat, trip to park, icecream, sticker etc for a good week are okay. I believe acting out is all a part of learning boundaries. Right now for the first time ever we are having a problem with Castle crying, screaming, kicking, yelling, falling to the floor etc when it's a school day, T/TH. She has been going for two years now and has always loved it. We just get dressed and go, I leave her screaming everytime right now but as soon as I am out of sight she is fine, just a test I suppose.

[JGarrick]

Originally Posted by shelbydog

I would have a serious problem with a teacher or director calling me and putting my child on the phone because she acted up in class!

I have to concur with this. This seems like a routine discipline issue that they should be able to handle without calling you. I might not think much of it if it's an isolated incident, but if they're routinely calling you to settle behavior issues during the day, they aren't really doing what they're being paid for.

[Suzeb1]

I'm agreeing with other posters who've noted that it's very typical developmentally. Four year olds in general just feel smart, capable and independent. Depending on a child's temperament that can show up in a variety of ways. While it seems most parents have greater challenges as their kids get older (terrible 3's etc) I've actually had the good fortune of my daughter's behavior improving dramatically and I truly believe it's because she has a new teacher who works with her personality and I have been much more consistent about using approaches that are effective with my daughter's temperament.

My daughter is very strong-willed and as a result I almost never go "head to head" with her. There are times when she'll get a consequence if I know she is very clear that a behavior isn't acceptable and even after I've re-directed her she hasn't stopped. Usually however, I've found that gently using humor, or gently explaining what is wrong works...and when it doesn't, I just don't give in, nor do I fight every part of the battle. In fact, I rarely fight the "no," I typically deal with what dd is saying "no" about.

For example, DD didn't want to wash her hands last week before dinner and so I said "it sounds like you don't want to wash your hands. I'll just put your dinner in the refrigerator till you're ready because it's very important to clean the germs off our hands" and then I ate dinner and we went about the evening. Many times she asked (okay, demanded) to eat and I (gently) said "sure, just get those hands clean" and eventually she did. She's washed her hands every day since. I"ve also discovered that helping my daughter save "face" goes a long way.

I'm lucky because her teacher responds to her very similarly and overall dd's compliance with requests and overall behavior has improved so much. Last year she had a much more control-oriented and consequence using teacher and dd was much more challenging to parent and teach. It seemed as if she were always in "fight" mode...and now she rarely is.

Susan

[bethy724]

My son went thru the same thing going from Preschool to Pre-K. The 1st week was awful but I have a solution that worked for us.
1) I let him know that I will find out EVERYTHING that goes on in school. We talked to the teacher together - he knows the adults are communicating.
2) He is to respect the rules of the classroom (I don't ever want to tell him to do what an adult says no matter what) I said if the rules of the classroom don't sound right to him - tell me & we'll talk to the teacher.
3) This is the clincher - I told him I'd be happy to use ALL of my vacation time to sit in his classroom & see EXACTLY what was going on, however, in using all my time to sit in his school we can't go on vacation to the beach, Disney ect..

It is sometimes a parents gut reaction to think the teacher is asking too much of your child or maybe they are too militant (they may need to be)
It didn't help that in the same school he want from his Preschool teacher that gave hugs & praise to a more structured "rule" abiding Pre-K teacher, but you know what-that is how life is- you can't hand pick your teacher or boss so get used to it. Good luck!

[Slatond10]

Originally Posted by bethy724

3) This is the clincher - I told him I'd be happy to use ALL of my vacation time to sit in his classroom & see EXACTLY what was going on, however, in using all my time to sit in his school we can't go on vacation to the beach, Disney ect..

OMG -- I LOVE THIS ADVICE ... I will remember this little jewel, because I think it would work perfectly with my DD!

[begaines]

Hi, well yesterday went well. We took her stomp away and she would have earned it back. But today again she wouldn't follow directions so it is removed again along with her favorite dress-up earrings. She cried for about 10 minutes.

The director that called me didn't call to tattle she said she wanted to call to let Abby know that we were both on the same page.

I have thought about asking them to make Abby sit out during playtime.

I don't remember who mentioned it but I have thought about a chart where we can maybe go to Jumpin' Joey's if she is good all week on Saturday. But, this week I am going to do something smaller like a small toy from walmart or something.

I am just so frustrated. Any other advice would be greatly appreciated.

AT this point I am going to continue to take one item away until she starts having good days.

Now, it seems as soon as I walk in the door to pick her up she will tell me "I'm ready to go" then I usually know something happened that she didn't want me to know about.

Like the director said we don't want to break her spirit but we do want her to respect the teachers.

I like it that she is spunky and will not put up with junk off of others but I want her to respect adults.

I like what someone said about the dinner because the child wouldn't wash her hands. That is good.