[Quesita]

Liana is really the perfect kid. During the waking hours. She is smart and funny and loving and empathetic. She follows instructions… in English and Spanish! She is very cooperative… for a two year old, that is. Yeah, she has her meltdowns. And sometimes she gets whiney. But mostly, she is just affectionate and joyous and playful and just lots of fun to be with.

Until nighttime. We’ve been doing this “star chart” reward system in an attempt to deal with the first part of the sleep drama. No kicking, no crying, no throwing things, put your head on the pillow when mommy says put your heat on the pillow. If she does all of that she gets a star. Five stars and she gets a surprise. It has helped a lot with the drama of actually getting into bed.

Then, after reading our books, I’m held hostage for about an hour, with my arms wrapped around her while she fights sleep. I’ve tried fading, but that makes her go insane, thrashing and sitting up and screaming.

Finally, she falls asleep. If I’m still awake, I’ve got about 45 minutes before she starts screaming and needing to be held. If I’ve fallen asleep myself at this point, it is 45 minutes of sleep. Sometimes this is the only wake up of the evening. Rarely. Usually there is one more… either nightmare or night terror. Nightmares are harder on her. Night terrors are harder on me. Sometimes, on bad nights, it is another 4 or 5 or even 6 more wakeups.

I’ve spoken with two doctors, who gave me contradictory instructions, neither of which worked. I’ve read everything from “No Cry Sleep Solution” to Ferber, and for ages I experimented, and really confused her. Everyone says, whatever you do, be consistent. I hired a behaviorist sleep coach. She did an evaluation, and said the issues were too complex, with abandonment concerns, the fact that she was left with me the first time when she was asleep, and woke up with her foster family gone. The sleep coach wouldn’t take my money.

Sometimes it seems to be getting better. Last night was a bad night. I was cranky this morning, and was unkind to a neighbor who is so so so good to us, because she always scolds me for cosleeping. As if that were the root of the problem.

I just needed to vent. You know… some people commute two or three hours per day to work. I don’t. I walk to work in 12 minutes. But I spend two or three hours per day getting Liana to sleep. It has almost become normal. Almost.

The frustrating thing is, that people who know Liana, even people who know her well, just don’t believe me. She is so clearly happy, well-adjusted, and such a marvelous human being. The daytime Liana, and the nighttime Liana are just different people.

I know everyone here faces a different set of issues. I just came to vent, to a place where I know people understand, and believe me.

[mksilvermoon]

KC i really feel for you

sleep issues are very hard - no surprise sleep disruption is a torture technique! you could look into emotional freedom technique (EFT) as Carmen went through a similiar reaction to falling asleep as an infant (but now resolved). I was convinced she was traumatised by a sleeping handover also. Do some online research - basically trauma techniques for children/nonverbal trauma interventions (based on trauma held in the body) may offer something useful to you and Liana

good luck and feel free to PM me

MK

[GuatMommy2Be]

KC,

I am so sorry that this is still going on. I wish I had some advice for you but the above poster seems to have given you a great start.

xoxoxo

[robandjulie]

No advice but lots of sympathy. I know it's hard to have those rough nights every now and then--to have that be a "normal" reality is physically painful. DD as an infant didn't sleep through the night until 16 months so I do know how it is to be a walking zombie in auto-pilot for a year or more, but the cause and solution are different here. I hope you can find some relief for both of your sakes.

Hang in there and vent anytime.

[Martycoo]

I don't know if this will help, and I think you must have tried some of these already, but here is what we have been doing with our Tara Roisin (pronounced "rosheen") who has had episodes of frequent nightmares sicne she turned 2.5 yrs old. She doesn't want me or her dad to leave her side at bed time at all.

At bed time we normally spend about an hour reading stories to her from a book of her choice (we have put a bookshelf within her reach that holds about 20 books). We also play a book on tape for her and this helps tremendously on a bad night. We also play music that she likes before we say night night. Leaving a light on helps a lot too. (This is not a night light but a 20 watt table lamp). In her crib she also has quite a few favourite friends who (in her own words) guard her against nightmare too.

[ej-momtobe]

We had somewhat similar problems. Here's what we got to work (after lots of trial and error)

Either me or DH lays down with him to go to sleep (after a 30 minute routine to settle him down, mostly reading).

• We put on lullaby music (he likes that so it gets him in bed in the first place)
• We lay down in bed with him.
• If he get up, starts throwing things, hitting, etc. i tell him that mommy will leave the room if it continues.
• If it continues after a warning or 2, I put a gate up across his door and leave the room (while he cries loudly) for a bout 5-10 minutes. I come back and ask him to go to bed. If he settles down I go back to bed with him.
• After about 5 minutes, in bed, singing along to the lullabies sometimes, I turn my back to him and dont respond to anything he says or does, i just lay there next to him until he goes to sleep.
• Once he is asleep, i leave his room for hte night.

This routine actually took go-to-bed time from 1-2 hours to about 30 minutes. I know that different things work for different people. I just wanted to share this with you, because I have been there, and it did get better. (although still not perfect yet)

Good luck. You WILL find something that works for you!

[dac_cincy]

KC-

I really understand where you are coming from. I went throughthe same things nad we are going through them again now.

Bug;s foster family also left him when he was alseep and he woke up with me - multiple times.

Somethings I have tried and they work at times-
1. I let him go to sleep on the couch by me- it means I am constantly telling him ot lay his head down,but it works after about 30 minutes. It does mean I have to screen my TV shows becuase until he falls asleep- viewing has to be toddler appropriate.
2. He sleeps in my bed. We tried co spleepign when he first came home, but stopped after 1.5 weeks becuase he gotout of bed and I could not sleep. We started back with co sleeping on weekends after 8 month home and now he has been co sleeping with me since October. But it sounds like you are doing this already.
3. I live in a ranch style home, so he is never out of hearing range- I can hear him moving in bed and I call him out on it. I do the same things each night after he goes to bed- TV and email and he constantly asks what I am doing. I think it helps him when we have the same routinue.
4. I spend and have spent a lot of time reassuring him that I will not leave him at night, that I will be in the livingroom, I will come to bed and we will sleep together and wake up together. I thin we go through this at least once or twice a week.
5. Now that he is older, I can ask him why he is scared- usually monsters and bad mend are coming to take him, we go through it over and over that there are no monsters, that momma will not let anyone take him, that ther are no bad men in our house, etc. i think lots of these come from his age- seem developmentatlly appropraite.
6. When he goes to bed, I have to leave the bathroom light on and the hall light - night lights do not work. If I try to turn any of the lights off while he is sleeping, he wakes up. I think he needs the light to recognize where he is when he wakes up. I finally have been able to turn off the night light once I come to bed (I turn off all the other lights)- I can not sleep with lots of light, but Bug needed it for a number of months even after he was in my bed. Again, he needed to be able to recognize where he was when he woke up in the night.

And as I am sure you know- our deepest fears come out at night- that is why she is fine during the day and then is not at night.

I wish had an answer for you- some magic thing that would make it better. I don't,but I am sending you hugs as I know how hard this is and the toll it takes on you.

Love and hugs,
Deb

[HenrysMom401]

I'm going out on a limb here, but I would try to talk to her during the day about night time, and how it's going to work. This way she's not stressed out about it and she's in the right frame of mind to receive and process it. It might take a few days (weeks?) but it's worth a try.

When I started brushing my son's teeth, he just wasn't having any of it. He would cry and thrash and close his mouth really tight. One day, I just started talking to him about it, taking him to the store to buy a new one, explaining about toothpaste, how it tickles but doesn't hurt, then I would let him watch me brush my teeth....I brushed his stuffed animals' "teeth"; slowly he got it, and now he looks forward to it, even asks for more toothpaste when we're done.

Maybe you could buy a book about bedtime? Read it to her a LOT, let her choose some new pajamas, or a new lovey, etc. Then ease her in to the new way of doing things. You could also do some role reversal...let her put YOU to bed...I don't know...I'm rambling...

good luck!

[Dmitry'smom]

We go through phases of this. It is getting better but Sophia sometimes acts as though someone is trying to kill her in the middle of the night.

I don't have any advice, just hugs.

[mommytoEli]

um...really i can just say you are not alone. eli will be three in 2 weeks, and he is a nightmare to put to sleep. we are talking 2 to 3 hours of running around the house, waking up his siblings, screaming "i will NOT go to bed." no one believed it was as bad as we made it sound. then both of our moms came to visit back to back. they could not believe what they saw. he controls this house until about 10 p.m. every night! i am not sure what to do either, i've tried alot of things, everyone has a different opinion....but the only thing i can say is keep trying new things until you find something that works.

one thing i am worried about, bc eli also wakes up after being asleep, is night terrors. he wakes up screaming. last night, it happend at 5 in the morning....i ran up the stairs. he was thrashing aroudn in his bed SCREAMING "no, no...." it was the worst one i have ever seen. i wasn't sure whether or not to wake him up when he screamed, "NO......do NOT turn on channel 66!!!!!!" lol....that's the disney channel here. he must've been having a sleep fight with his brother over whether they would watch curious george on 8 or something on the disney channel. lol.....it was nice to know that some things that "terrorize" eli are a little more innocent than i thought by the way he screams.

[Suzeb1]

no advice here either, because my dd has had challenges with sleeping from day 1 (actually day 2 according to my journal

She slept through the night in Guatemala, although only 9 hours a night (even at 3 mo. old) and her fm could never get her to nap, just catnap...

Nighttime was when (and still is, I believe) all of dd's fear, grief, sadness came out. She came home the week she turned 6 mos. old and grieved terribly; she cried 8 hours straight the first night of the pickup trip; it got better quickly, in terms of my ability to comfort her, but sleep was another story. For the first 6- 12 months she was home, she woke up every 45 minutes to 2 hours. I began to co-sleep "on purpose" after she had been home 3 months because even though she still woke up, I was able to comfort her and go back to sleep more quickly.

She's 3 1/2 now, and generally sleeps through the night. She was sleeping in her own bed for several months, but began waking and screaming again, so we are back to co-sleeping. I loved the No Cry Solution, and just read "Sleepless in America" and really liked it too...so there may be some more ideas for you, but basically, I figure this is the place my girl needs comfort and for me to be there...so I take naps with her on the weekend and drink coffee

I continue to focus on how connected we are, how I am always there for her, and how, one day, I'll miss the hours spent rocking in the dark and being able to just reach out and feel her breathe at night. Vent away; you are absolutely not alone.

Susan

[SKL]

Sorry you are having this trouble. I have no experience with this particular issue, but I like the idea of discussing it with her during the day.

Have you tried going through the whole (accelerated) process with a doll a few times - i.e., helping Liana get the doll ready for bed, talking about comforting the doll to sleep, and having the doll wake up happily in the "morning"? This might provide a non-threatening opportunity for Liana to think through her fears and maybe work some things out using her "waking" logic. Using doll play has helped me through several different transitions. Maybe it's worth a try.

Good luck!

[drasusi]

We had lots of trouble with night terrors when we got home (happen within an hour or two of onset of sleep, patient CAN NOT be aroused from them, has no memory of them afterward). Yes, those were awful for us. We discovered they almost happened when we varied our routine and kept DS out late. So we are always the first to leave every dinner party, and things had been better.
We've just now (2 years later) started having problems with nightmares. Much later in the sleep cycle (which means we're usually asleep ourselves, or I guess I should say were.) Lots of shouting now. Can be awoken, but then trembling, sweating, crying, and afraid to go back to sleep, even if moved to our bed. (Speaks mostly Spanish....sobs "no dormir, no dormir".) Hasn't been able to tell me the content of nightmares...makes him upset to try to talk about them, whether day or night.
I'm so impressed with your thoughtful approach to finding a solution, your dedication to doing what is right for her even though it's exhausting you, and your insight that you need to get validation from others who have kids with similar backgrounds...so we're here to tell you we have similar experiences. Sorry your nights are so much more challenging than the days. I guess the fact that the days are so good would give me hope that eventually the ongoing positive experiences and security of her life with you will help her heal and put at bay whatever is disrupting her sleep.
Que tu y Liana empiecen a son~ar con los angelitos.....
Peace.

[gaben]

You may have already done this but have you read Healthy Sleep Habits, Happy Child? She may be going to bed too late in the evening. There is a "window" you begin to recognize, that lets you know your child is sleepy. If you miss that window, children (and adults) begin to fight sleep and then it's a struggle (to put it mildly....) I was putting my son to bed at 8pm and it turns he needed to go around 6pm. When I did that, the issues disappeared almost overnight.

If trauma truly is at the root of this issue, you may want to try EMDR. This technique is very successful with traumatized individual - whether simple trauma or complex. There is alot of research on EMDR. Take her to someone who is trained to work with children. Hope this helps.

Melissa

[susy...patience]

but wanted you to know that your voice can always be heard here....and I'm so sorry you are struggling with this.

I have a friend who hired a sleep specialist too...PM me if you would like me to find the name.