[AdoptAmiga]

House bill 4662 is on its second reading that would take effect January 1, 2009.

This bill would require parents to send five year olds to school (currently attending/providing K is voluntary, compulsory education begins with grade 1/age 6), requiring full-day K beginning w/ the 2011-12 SY AND phasing in increased age cut-offs. Current law is a child must be 5 years old by Dec. 1. This law would phase in a cut-off date of Nov. 1 for 2009/10 SY, Oct. 1 for 2010/11 SY and Sept. 1 for 2011/12 SY and forward. This bill would also allow for a parental waiver.

This bill would only be in effect for those schools (including some charter schools) that fail to make adequate yearly progress under the NCLBA for two consecutive years.

Currently, some schools/districts voluntarily offer a full day K program, but it is far from the norm. Please contact your representative about your feelings (pro or con) on this issue.

IMO, I believe that K should be full-time for all Michigan 5 year olds. I also support the change for an increased age. Requiring students to be 5 years old upon entering K helps to ensure greater "equal footing". Some private schools have already instituted their own age cut-off dates (typically Sept.1).

Currently, only 14 stated make Kindergarten mandatory and 9 states require full-day Kindergarten. (BTW- Michigan is only 1 of 3 states that provide special education servies to ages 0-26. Most states have the age range of 3-21.) Let's help (and keep) Michigan a leader in education by supporting this bill to also include ALL Michigan five year olds. Thanks for reading!

[DPline]

Do you know what if any effect this would have on the Young 5's program offered by some districts which is state funded?

Also, just to make sure I am understanding correctly - the cut-off date would move for all districts, but only those districts that are not making adequate yearly progress would be required to offer full day kindergarten? (Not that I don't suspect that all districts will eventually go to it.)

I would love to see them move the cut off date up, but I am very opposed to requiring full day kindergarten. If districts want to offer it, fine, but I don't agree with it being a requirement for all children.

[AdoptAmiga]

Deb- not sure what the effect (if any) on the Young 5 program (that was a question I had also.) My feeling that there would be less classrooms, as there would be less young fives (JASON birthdays - July, Aug. Sept., Oct. Nov.) Maybe those in states that have a Sept 1 cut-off date can tell us if they have a young 5 program?

It's not clear if the cut-off date would be required for all. But to have different cut-off dates for different districts and/or schools w/in a district would be a logistical nightmare! Also, not clear, if half-day K would be an option for those wanting a waiver. As usual, nothing is clear and usually things aren't well thought out before presenting.

We seem to be buttin' heads today ! I'm for all-day K. E. is in one now and I'm very pleased. C. is in first grade and in just four weeks of school, he's reading short vowel and sight words, doing addition up to 20, counting by 5s and regrouping pennies and nickels, identified oceans on a map, etc. K kids (and many did not attend pre-school) need to be exposed to a lot for success in first grade and beyond.

Friends still?!

[dac_cincy]

let me first say that I am not in Michigan, so this will not affect me or my son, but I do have a question.

My son's birthday is on 15Aug - which is my state and school district, is one week before school starts. I have already choosen to keep him out of Kindergarten until he is 6. All the literature I have read and all the teachers I have talked to state that boys typically need an extra year before they are really ready for a structured learning environment. How will parents like me be able to choose the right path for their children if Kindergarten is mandatory for all 5 year olds? Does the parental waiver allow for this? And if so, does that mean that the children who do not start at 5 have to go directly to first grade or do they start in kindergarten?

Thanks so much,

[DPline]

Originally Posted by AdoptAmiga

We seem to be buttin' heads today ! Friends still?!

LOL! Yes!

I think so much comes down to the child and the school district. With both of my boys going to Young 5's, they could have gone on to full day kindergarten at age 6, but if they had gone straight into full day kindergarten (without Young 5's) at age 5 it would have been a disaster. Lauren just misses the currect Dec. 1st cut off and I think she could make it through a full day kindergarten day, but I dont' think she needs it or that it would be the best thing for her. They have so many years of full day school, and kindergarten is so academic now. I feel like we should give them more time to be little kids and ease into school.

Yes, if it is a matter of getting kids who haven't had the opportunity for prior school experience 'caught up' I can see the need, but I don't like the idea of it being mandatory for everyone in all districts.

Deb - Good questions! My son's have birthdays in late May and early Sept. and I held them both back. For Alec, now in 4th grade, it was definetly the right decision, and so far I am very glad we did it for Daniel too. That is exactly why I have an issue with mandatory K at 5 years old (not sure how the Young 5's would fit in there) AND full days. I want to be able to make that decision for my children and what I feel is best for them.

[avoel]

Also not in Michigan, but also not in favor of requiring all day kindergarten for everyone. It simply doesn't work for all kids...including mine! If you have a kid with attention issues, forcing them to start school in an all day setting can be a recipe for disaster.

My kindergartener goes 3 hours a day and is already reading short books, learning simple addition and writing words. I don't think she is missing out academically. What she is missing out on is a lot of frustration that would come if she were forced to stay longer because she would not be able to handle it. Some kids can...mine would not be and won't have to until she is almost 7 (also thanks to the fact that I had the option to hold her back a year thanks to her August 29th birthdate---our district has a Sept 1 cutoff)

[DPline]

Originally Posted by avoel

It simply doesn't work for all kids...including mine!

That is exactly my issue with it being a law. I have the same birthday as your daughter. My brother's is two weeks before mine. (Three years later.) We both started school right after turning 5 because that was what was done then. I was fine with it. My brother struggled terribly and to this day (he is now 36) my mother regrets sending him. He turned out great (masters in engineering and part owner of a large commercial construction company in Chicago) but it wasn't until he was in college that he really came into his own and got on track. For him, starting at 5 (even half days) was not what was best for him. And that was a big factor in my deciding to hold back my boys.

[AdoptAmiga]

I agree that all-day K is not the ideal for all kids, but I do feel strongly that parents should at least have the option of all-day. And yes, if K is required for all, there wouldn't be the option of holding back (half-day or full-day). K would be the new first grade.

What ever the cut-off date, there will always be someone who is the youngest and oldest in the class. And within these age ranges, there is a range of skills and abilities. Maybe resources should be devoted to preschool, so that more children are ready for regular school.

In my personal opinion, in general, our educational system is too lax and expectations are too low. After living in China for a year and seeing what is expected of kids, ie. all-day preschool starting at age 3, high expectations (and instruction) in math and offering English as a foreign language instruction beginning at age 3 (along with Mandarin literacy), US kids will be lacking to compete in a global market. My kids attend a Sunday Chinese language school, comprised mostly of children of Chinese-Americans or of J-I visa (educational/professional) holders. Many of these students are also enrolled in math classes (one year above grade placement), art/music classes and the older ones in SAT prep. We're a bit on the extreme of promoting multilingualism (our kids are bilingual Eng/Spa and we're doing the best to keep Mandarin alive) and we try to advocate and practice the instilling of higher order math and science skills to our kids.

Michigan families - please convey your opinions and concerns to your rep. This law, if passed, would take effect in about 3 months.

[michelemk]

I also do not support mandatory FULL-DAY kindergarten. Please don't ask me to quote my sources, but I had heard that studies had shown that there were no differences between children who had attended half-day kindergarten and children who attended full-day kindergarten once they were in 1st grade and beyond.

AdoptAmiga--I understand your point about wanting our children to prosper in a global market. But, I disagree that what is best for my child is to be so scheduled--I especially don't want to go towards a system like you are describing in China! All day preschool for my 3 year old?? Not for me. But, I only work part-time and am able to stay home with my children and give them tons of early education from home. I understand that many families are unable to do this--especially in these hard economic times.

My boys are 6 and 8. We try very hard to NOT schedule extra stuff in their lives. They are each allowed one extra-curricular activity at a time (currently one does soccer and one is doing gymnastics). Do I think music lessons and Scouts and language lessons and art lessons would be beneficial to them?? Definitely...but I also see the value of them being able to just come home, do their homework, and play, play, play in the backyard for hours.

Michele

[AdoptAmiga]

I think it would be interesting to hear from those in the nine states that do require mandatory full-time K. Can we have your opinions? Michigan is on the fence right now and to hear experiences from others who have a system in place would be valuable.

Just for the record, I'm not a proponent of over-scheduling kids. My own children each have an activity (soccer or gymnastics) on Saturday (ending in 2 weeks) and the Chinese class on Sunday. I feel that's enough. They put in a full day at school, come home and play, eat dinner, 10 minutes of homework, play some more and then to bed. I, too, don't want to over schedule with Scouts, piano, etc. My point of mentioning the Chinese system is they place a greater emphasis and value on academics, including music and art at an earlier age. These become lifelong habits.

I'm one Mom that's trying to give her kids an advantage in a multilingual, multicultural world. Having solid academic and people skills, a love of learning and the ability to communicate with 75% of the world's population (Englush, Spanish and Mandarin speakers) can't be a bad thing. Sorry if I offend, but it's just that I'm so passionate about languages. Forgiveness needed!

[angel_bayou]

I'm in Louisiana and our children are required to begin kindergarten at age 5 and go all day!! I never really knew until recently that there was an option!

[DPline]

Originally Posted by AdoptAmiga

I agree that all-day K is not the ideal for all kids, but I do feel strongly that parents should at least have the option of all-day.

But in my opinion, there is a big difference in parents being offered the option and it being a state law that it is required for all children at age 5. You know my kids pretty well. If Livonia offered full day next year, I would quite possibly send Lauren. Even with a year of Young Fives behind him, I am not entirely sure I would choose it for Daniel.


I would also like to see exactly what the curriculum would be for a full day kindergarten program.

[michelemk]

AdoptAmiga-
You don't offend at all. I think it is pretty cool that your kids are learning Mandarin and Spanish. I know it is so much easier to learn when you are a child.

I also would be interested in seeing a full-day kindergarten curriculum and how it would differ from half-day. In our district (in MO), half-day kindergarten is no longer offered. But, when it was, the kids learn MORE in full day, just had more time to spend at school learning it. I am thankful that my 6 year old went to 1/2 day last year--the last year they offered it. I get a bit teary-eyed now, thinking that if we stay in this district, I don't have the choice anymore for 1/2 day for Miranda--unless I send her to a private school, which I would definitely consider---just for the option of 1/2 day.

Michele

[AdoptAmiga]

Originally Posted by DPline

But in my opinion, there is a big difference in parents being offered the option and it being a state law that it is required for all children at age 5. You know my kids pretty well. If Livonia offered full day next year, I would quite possibly send Lauren. Even with a year of Young Fives behind him, I am not entirely sure I would choose it for Daniel.


I would also like to see exactly what the curriculum would be for a full day kindergarten program.

Fully agree. Just so that I can redeem myself (and not to look like I'm talking out of both sides of my mouth ), I should be more clear in my position. Of course, no one way works for every child in anything. Half-day or full-day K isn't right for every kid. Full-day first grade isn't right for every single child. In general, I'm in favor of full-time K. My child is in it now and is thriving. Of course, if it was a disaster for her, I probably wouldn't be a proponent.

So maybe we should contact our reps and state we don't want a requirement,but an option for full-time K. if this passes as it is written, we won't have the option. The purpose of this thread was to give MI families a heads-up, instead of being surprised to hear/read Jan 2 that K will be mandatory and full-time starting in Sept. 2009! I didn't mean for the thread to be a debate on the issue, but only meant to inform. (Ok, Ok I should've kept my big fat opinion out then )

Inform your reps on your position. This proposed law is a concern for anyone who will have kids starting K in 2009 and forward.

I'll check on the curriculum difference between half and full days (if any). In E.'s class, I know they have plenty of time for play and have nap/quiet time. They're currently doing a letter, shape and color of the week.

[Christie.Josh]

I also disagree with making it mandatory. I think that parents should make the decision that is best for their kids. I think that they should offer both full and 1/2 day. I understand that a working parent may need the full day for their child, however I highly doubt that they will learn much more in a full day, some will just get more frusterated and resistant to school.

I believe that the best way for a child to learn is through one on one attention from a parent or caregiver. Our son is 3 does not go to preschool, but he already knows all of the letters and most of the letter sounds, and is close to reading. I have not pushed him, but through reading and simple activities he learns quickly. We go to story time and that hour is about all that he can handle of structured time.