[jules17]

connorsmommy, that is amazing. And YOU are amazing for making what must have been a terrifying decision. And for staying the course. How proud you must be of your son!!

For the record, my husband and my 2 children were conceived out of wedlock. So if their birthparents opted for abortion, I would literally not have any members of my family. And I cannot imagine this world without them in it. And I would have a niece or a nephew. The one "that is never spoken of" but thought of often.

ETA: I just don't like to see major life decisions made based on fear. And with abortion, I feel that they often are.

[mommytoEli]

hey, hey, hey.....some of these posts are skating on thin ice. please remember that regardless of how strongly you feel, we must all remain respectful. let's try to stay on topic and try to remain calm. i know it is difficult with such touchy subjects....but i'd hate to have to close the thread.

[guatparents2be]

Originally Posted by jules17

connorsmommy, that is amazing. And YOU are amazing for making what must have been a terrifying decision. And for staying the course. How proud you must be of your son!!

For the record, my husband and my 2 children were conceived out of wedlock. So if their birthparents opted for abortion, I would literally not have any members of my family. And I cannot imagine this world without them in it. And I would have a niece or a nephew. The one "that is never spoken of" but thought of often.

ETA: I just don't like to see major life decisions made based on fear. And with abortion, I feel that they often are.

it strikes me as concerning to associate "out of wedlock" with abortion. there are lots of married couples that choose to terminate pregnancies, and many single moms and dads that choose to raise children. there are couples that CAN'T get married because they are two women, who both happen to be adamantly anti-choice and vote repub on that issue only, sealing their fate to never be able to have a legal marriage. i very well think there may be some here, as a matter of fact!

in the end, i agree that making abortion (and gay marriage for that matter) into a political vs a personal issue has caused a deep and possibly irreparable divide in our country. it makes me very very sad to see division along party lines that end up with people justifying their choices that are clearly not congruent with their actual values because a political party plays to an issue like abortion.

and one more point on the ETA above. i really really don't want to get into religion here, but i can't count the number of pro-choice friends i have that have changed their stance as they grew up anti-choice because their religions and families taught them that people who choose to terminate pregnancies will go to hell. talk about motivation by fear? not at ALL judging people's religions just making a point about fear based decisions.

[bromanchik]

Originally Posted by SKL

For example, the "counseling" that unwed mothers receive to the effect that their child will be so unfortunate if allowed to live that it is better to end their lives. The freedom of others in the mother's life to pressure or even force her to do this even if she personally wants the person she conceived to live. The misconception / miscommunication that an unplanned child ends up being an unwanted child. The idea that young people (male and female) should be able to shrug off their mistakes because pursuing their selfish dreams is more important than anything else. The "logic" that cutting off what makes us women is the number one solution to the inequality of the sexes. Using my tax money to push this "solution" to the detriment of women.

Boy oh boy! Just change a few words and it is the same "Counseling" that most birth/first moms I know got. Yet, adoption is legal. And you don't see anyone in the general public upset over the "information" they get. In fact, your "tax money" is at work trying to convince more pregnant women to "cut off what makes us women" and place their children for adoption.

[jules17]

samantha, i don't disagree with you at all. the reason i made my comment about "wedlock" was because i was under the (perhaps incorrect?) assumption that that was the reason for the majority of abortions. i have not done my research, nor do i have anything to back that up. maybe i think that because in the case of my sister, that was a primary factor. she was scared and didn't feel she could do it alone, sadly. many of my close friends are single parents or in same sex relationships with kids. i guess i saw that as different because they obviously actively sought out parenthood.

and, yes, all fear based decisions are bad. no matter where the fear is coming from.

[guatparents2be]

Originally Posted by jules17

samantha, i don't disagree with you at all. the reason i made my comment about "wedlock" was because i was under the (perhaps incorrect?) assumption that that was the reason for the majority of abortions. i have not done my research, nor do i have anything to back that up. maybe i think that because in the case of my sister, that was a primary factor. she was scared and didn't feel she could do it alone, sadly. many of my close friends are single parents or in same sex relationships with kids. i guess i saw that as different because they obviously actively sought out parenthood.

and, yes, all fear based decisions are bad. no matter where the fear is coming from.

thanks jules...

i did some searching and found one pretty large study where women were asked about why they were choosing termination. most women had several answers the following statistics are the "most important" reason...

not ready to parent 25%
cannot afford a child 23%
has all the children she wanted or all children are grown 18%
8% said that they had trouble in relationship or didn't want to be a single parent

i think in the end everyone really has her own set of reasons. i will add also from an earlier part of this thread that i know very few women who find having an abortion an 'easy' choice. regarding access to abortion, for many, many women this also isn't 'easy.'

[Gatos]

I think the real issue is not that she has kids but that she has an infant and a special needs infant, at that.

Also, she has a pregnant teenager.

In my opinion, NEITHER parent should take on the world with all of that already on their plate.

Obama, Bush, Carter, etc. all had school-aged, healthy kids when running for office.

I think it is a bad decision for her kids, and I would think that if she was a man.

[SKL]

Originally Posted by Gatos

Also, she has a pregnant teenager.

Just curious. What does a mother do differently when she has a pregnant teenager, that makes it impractical to "take on the world"? I don't understand this argument. I am not picking on Gatos - I've seen this comment all over the place.

[bcpbmom]

For most mothers, we do the best we can for our families and many mothers balance career and family. We can't possibly know the details of the Palin's family life, or how they have their daily lives structured (i.e. daily care of their children). I will readily admit that I work outside the home and have 2 small children and at the end of the day I'm struggling to stay awake past 8! So, I cannot imagine how she juggles motherhood, work, etc. but some of us are much better at handling multiple challenges at one time (in fact, some people actually thrive on it and perform better when they have lots of things going on at once). I guess I just think that we mothers (regardless of political views) should support each other (and I don't mean support as in vote for a candidate because she is a mother but perhaps try to understand that no matter which path we choose, mothers today face many difficult issues).

Hope all of that made sense! It is getting close to 8 p.m.!

[jules17]

I'm thinking help her enter the world of motherhood? As in, not an issue now...but a few months from now, when the baby is born and she wants her mom?

Just a thought...I really don't know.

[Brie Brock]

I've always voted democratic...but this year I'm voting for McCain/Palin...I really like her and admire her. I'm near the same age, I have 6 children and seeing her run for VP has made me look at my life and say "what am I doing to make a difference" I've always thought a middle aged woman with many children wasn't able to do much. Now I see that I am wrong. I say...you go girl!!!

Bri

[SKL]

Originally Posted by jules17

I'm thinking help her enter the world of motherhood? As in, not an issue now...but a few months from now, when the baby is born and she wants her mom?

Just a thought...I really don't know.

I guess that would be an issue for any young mother, suggesting that Hillary shouldn't have run either, since she has a daughter who might become a mom in the next 4 years. I am not trying to be sarcastic, just pointing out that we're getting close to that "slippery slope."

[gwenrenee007]

Originally Posted by SKL

I guess that would be an issue for any young mother, suggesting that Hillary shouldn't have run either, since she has a daughter who might become a mom in the next 4 years. I am not trying to be sarcastic, just pointing out that we're getting close to that "slippery slope."

Chelsea isn't pregnant and she is 28....Palin's daughter IS pregnant and is 17.

[ToulouG]

So what I am hearing is that since Palin has a 17 year old pregnant daughter that she should not run for public office and also that she has no place to talk about morals/values because she has a pregnant 17 year old daughter.....

I think any mother of a 17 year old would say that you do the best you can and instill what you believe and pray they make good choices, but ultimately, you can't control every aspect of their lives. You can't lock them away. My best friend raised 2 children. When the first was 17, she was a "model" student and person. When the second reached that age, she was a total "rocker" and caused many sleepless nights for her parents. You just don't know.

I also think it is easy for us to sit at our computers and judge either candidate when we really have no idea what goes on in their familes or behind closed doors---only what the media feeds us.

I certainly don't believe that because Palin has a daughter who became pregnant at 17, she is not a good mother or moral person. And I certainly don't think it has anything to do with the type of VP she would be. I think many parents of children in the same situation would agree.

I'm sure my message did not come across the way I wanted it too....I do much better when talking than typing. But I'll give it a shot anyway....

[gwenrenee007]

Originally Posted by ToulouG

So what I am hearing is that since Palin has a 17 year old pregnant daughter that she should not run for public office and also that she has no place to talk about morals/values because she has a pregnant 17 year old daughter.....

I think any mother of a 17 year old would say that you do the best you can and instill what you believe and pray they make good choices, but ultimately, you can't control every aspect of their lives. You can't lock them away. My best friend raised 2 children. When the first was 17, she was a "model" student and person. When the second reached that age, she was a total "rocker" and caused many sleepless nights for her parents. You just don't know.

I also think it is easy for us to sit at our computers and judge either candidate when we really have no idea what goes on in their familes or behind closed doors---only what the media feeds us.

I certainly don't believe that because Palin has a daughter who became pregnant at 17, she is not a good mother or moral person. And I certainly don't think it has anything to do with the type of VP she would be. I think many parents of children in the same situation would agree.

I'm sure my message did not come across the way I wanted it too....I do much better when talking than typing. But I'll give it a shot anyway....

I agree to a certain extent. Her having a 17 yr old daughter does NOT make her a bad mother or have bad morals, BUT when your stance is no sex-ed and only abstinence it does get a bit interesting. Also as a party that is always spouting family values and putting religion into the conversation it is quite hypocritical. Of course she can't control her daughter teens have sex that is why we need sex ed. Just as a note I am not saying Republicans or conservatives on this board more the present pres and the conservatives on tv like Bill O'Reilly and such.