[carolynpep73]

Whoa! When did my post put me up for attack on my ability to be an effective teacher, xxxsurroundedbyxy?

First of all, the child I posted about has been in my room for two weeks, however, I have worked with him NUMEROUS times while in K! His teacher would frustrate easily and he would need to come to my room to cool down.

No where did I ever say that I DO NOT do time out. Of course I do time out. My students have a cool down area in the room if they need to step aside for a while, I also have another teacher that allows my students to serve a time out in her room if they cannot cool down or settle down in mine. My students lose recess in incriments of 5 minutes for every card color that is flipped. I have a three strikes your out system where if you flip you color three times in one day, you sit out of recess entirely. I also use MANY positive reinforcements in my room. Students are more motiviated by positive rewards than negative consequences. I have written many a referral for students who cannot keep their hands to themselves or are disrespectful to others. I have to document behavior that is inappropriate. Some students need more than a general education classroom can provide.

The K teacher I spoke about in the earlier post is a teacher I have known for several years. I know her style. I know her temperment. I know her prejudices too.

I fully intend to have difficulty with this student (from the previous post) as the honeymoon period comes to an end. How I choose to deal with it will be based on HIS needs for positive discipline and reinforcement.

I run a tight ship and my students are VERY clear on my expectations. I try very hard to build a positive community of learners each year. I have an excellent record at my school. I would invite you into my classroom any time, any day to see how it runs.

[carolynpep73]

And just in case it comes up, No, I do not walk around motiviating students with candy. I am a firm believer that candy is a short term motivator that is very inaffective overall.

[BrockBaby]

Students are more motiviated by positive rewards than negative consequences.

I agree totally! NOTHING works better for me at circle time, when I have a few kids who don't want to listen, for me to say, "Johnny, I love the way that you are sitting and listening to me. Thank you so much you make my heart feel happy." then I'll choose another kid who is modeling the correct behavior. Without a doubt, the kids who were acting up will sit up, look up, and wait for me to say that I LOVE how they are sitting. (grant it, I teach preschooler, but it illustrates the fact that kids want to hear the good.) And honestly...kindergarten kids and older preschooler, are not that much different. (especially at the beginning of the year) Now, I am not saying that this is the ONLY thing that I do...cause we do have consequences as well. I think part of my job as a teacher is to teach children that sometimes the choices we make lead to consequences we don't like. Hey, that's life....speed, get caught, you get a ticket. The key is to make sure that the consequences and the expectations are DAP. (developmentally appropriate practices)

I have been thinking A LOT about the whole walking the fence thing...and I can say that I see both sides of it. The whole idea of walking it for that length of time is appauling. Not DAP. I wonder if the teacher gave the child a choice...you can either sit on the bench and think about what you did..or you can walk the fence and think about what you did....would that make it less "mean" as some see it? That way, if the child IS active...and NEEDS to release that energy somehow....they have that option. I don't know!!!! I guess it boils down to what I've said before...that when we are discipling a child we should be teaching them WHY...and not just dishing out consequences...that we need to get to the root of the issue, or we will just continue to struggle with the same behavior OVER and OVER....

[crick]

Originally Posted by carolynpep73

And just in case it comes up, No, I do not walk around motiviating students with candy. I am a firm believer that candy is a short term motivator that is very inaffective overall.

Oh Thank You for this!!!! I hate candy rewards. Especially hate it because the kids don't eat it at school and bring it home (have to have parental permission to eat it) and it makes it my job to say yes or no. Since it's supposed to be a reward from the teacher, this doesn't make sense to me.

Last year they implemented these "Bus Bucks" and "Class Bucks" where they are rewarded with fake "money" from the bus driver or teachers and then twice a month they can take their bucks to the school "store" and "buy" little trinkets like pencils, fun erasers, etc. I like this one.

Unfortunately the 5th grade class has what they call a "Guess A Roonie" jar. You get "Guess Chances" as a reward that gives you chances to guess how many items are in a jar at the end of the week. What's in the jar 9 times out of 10? Candy. My dd came home with 22little packages of Nerds candy this week sooooo excited to have won. Ugh. And the kicker? Since she won, we have to replenish the jar with something else for next week. Last year when my son won, I replenished the jar with coins I save from the laundry/cleaning. I asked last year if they couldn't make it a rule that parents can't fill the jar with candy but it was shot down.

Don't get me wrong...I'm not anti candy all the time etc., but I do hate it as a reward.

[Waiting4Celeste]

The candy reward-thing would NEVER fly at our school. They have implemented a rule about appropriate snacks at school and if something isn't on the list - the kids can't have it.
This year, Jacob's 1st grade teacher said she's not having kids bring snacks for all of the class. (we usually have to supply snacks for the whole class once a month). Now they have to bring their own so she doesn't have to worry about whether or not the snacks are on the "approved snacks list."
I was happy to see that the school was attempting to help the kids make good food choices... but they still give sugary desserts at lunch. I'd like to see them offer fruit every day as a dessert... not brownies and cakes - oh well.

[allerseelen4]

I did not read all of the responses.

However, I don't think this is that big of a deal. Unfortunately, teachers are often limited by how they can discipline their students. "Time out" from recess can easily backfire, and the child will have even more pent up energy once they get back inside the classroom.

Kids run around like maniacs at recess. At least, they do around here. I think letting them (or making them, in this case), at least lets them get some of that energy out, rather than having to sit inside the building, or on a bench watching the other children have fun.

A quick side note: in the district where I taught, we had a lot of discipline problems, and things like a time out, call to the parents, or even suspensions did not work. If a class was really being ridiculously off the wall (and trust me, often there as nothing the teacher could do), the principal (an ex Olympic athlete that is the female counterpart to Lazytown's "Sporticus" in real life!) would make the class go outside and run two laps around the building. They loved it, which would make me question it as a form of discipline, but after getting a little drink of water, they were, admitedly, always ready to sit back down and get to work.

[allerseelen4]

I forgot to add, I think that the teacher did not handle the approach very well. Like many teachers, she is probably used to parents calling her out on every single thing, and needed to get it out there, but I'm sure she could have figured out a better way to approach the subject.

[xxsurroundedbyxy]

Originally Posted by carolynpep73

Whoa! When did my post put me up for attack on my ability to be an effective teacher, xxxsurroundedbyxy?

First of all, the child I posted about has been in my room for two weeks, however, I have worked with him NUMEROUS times while in K! His teacher would frustrate easily and he would need to come to my room to cool down.

No where did I ever say that I DO NOT do time out. Of course I do time out. My students have a cool down area in the room if they need to step aside for a while, I also have another teacher that allows my students to serve a time out in her room if they cannot cool down or settle down in mine. My students lose recess in incriments of 5 minutes for every card color that is flipped. I have a three strikes your out system where if you flip you color three times in one day, you sit out of recess entirely. I also use MANY positive reinforcements in my room. Students are more motiviated by positive rewards than negative consequences. I have written many a referral for students who cannot keep their hands to themselves or are disrespectful to others. I have to document behavior that is inappropriate. Some students need more than a general education classroom can provide.

The K teacher I spoke about in the earlier post is a teacher I have known for several years. I know her style. I know her temperment. I know her prejudices too.

I fully intend to have difficulty with this student (from the previous post) as the honeymoon period comes to an end. How I choose to deal with it will be based on HIS needs for positive discipline and reinforcement.

I run a tight ship and my students are VERY clear on my expectations. I try very hard to build a positive community of learners each year. I have an excellent record at my school. I would invite you into my classroom any time, any day to see how it runs.

I wasn't aware that I attacked so sorry if I did. I, being a teacher, just know that making it sound like I can do a better job than the teacher last year did can sometimes come back to bite you in the butt and make for hard feelings between teachers so I suggested being careful.

Also, I assumed you did no time-out because I thought if a time-out walking on the bball court at recess was humiliating to a student (which is what you said) that any time-out and separation or making them do something different away from the others would be the same. Would it not? Being sent to the principal is humiliating for many too. Do we stop doing that? In the real world, punishment is humiliating to some and will work and will not cause others to blink. It's just the way it is.

Things are different everywhere. We do the walking a recess all the time. If we are caught giving away candy we would be reprimanded. So in my building you wouldn't have a choice of whether to do it or not.

To Allerseelen 4~
Those were my thoughts exactly. This was made out to be a BIG deal like child labor or corporal punishment or something and my first thought (after laughing) was to wonder what the big deal was. And if I had a class full of kids with parents that felt like some on here, I may have started out the year by laying it all out on the line too. Then they could move their kid if necessary.

[kakuehl]

Dear xxsurroundedbyxy,

It seems to me there are a couple issues here. As I understand the story, part (a big part) of the problem was the teacher's attitude. It was a bit of "the best defense is a good offense," except that she came across as very defensive. Not "this is my plan for discipline" but... "This is how it is, and don't think you're going to complain about what I do." It set up an adversarial relationship with the parents rather than an expectation that "we're on the same team."

The second objection that I heard in the original post was the appropriateness of the length of the punishment for the age of the children.

I taught for many years, beginning 35 years ago. In that time many things have changed including how one can discipline. That is both good and bad. The problem that I frequently ran into was that if parents' questioned anything, they went immediately to the superintendent of the schools to complain and rarely checked with the teacher first to hear his/her side of the story. Superintendents don't like being blindsided. I, personally, am very tired of the education wars! Maybe my problem is, that when I started to teach, the schools were still in locum parentis and teachers were expected to have some expertise. (OK. I'll stop now... this is becoming a rant, lol!)

[xxsurroundedbyxy]

Originally Posted by kakuehl

Dear xxsurroundedbyxy,

It seems to me there are a couple issues here. As I understand the story, part (a big part) of the problem was the teacher's attitude. It was a bit of "the best defense is a good offense," except that she came across as very defensive. Not "this is my plan for discipline" but... "This is how it is, and don't think you're going to complain about what I do." It set up an adversarial relationship with the parents rather than an expectation that "we're on the same team."

The second objection that I heard in the original post was the appropriateness of the length of the punishment for the age of the children.

I taught for many years, beginning 35 years ago. In that time many things have changed including how one can discipline. That is both good and bad. The problem that I frequently ran into was that if parents' questioned anything, they went immediately to the superintendent of the schools to complain and rarely checked with the teacher first to hear his/her side of the story. Superintendents don't like being blindsided. I, personally, am very tired of the education wars! Maybe my problem is, that when I started to teach, the schools were still in locum parentis and teachers were expected to have some expertise. (OK. I'll stop now... this is becoming a rant, lol!)

I don't think the teacher's attitude was the best foot to start on either, but seeing the reaction it got here I can understand why she started the year on the defensive. Not the best approach....but understandable.

I didn't see a problem with the length as I read it to say 5, 10, or 15, etc depending upon the behavior problem. Our kids only get 15-20 min recesses so 20 minutes would be the max.

I guess my question would be: At what age is it appropriate to start having them walk at recess since many feel 5-6 yr olds are still babies?

It is no wonder teachers' hands are tied and schools are what they are today if people treat walking at recess like corporal punishment. Most schools shy away from paddling understandably (and most parents sign to not have their child paddled anyway). Now we are saying walking is "child labor" and "humiliating" to children. OMG....what does that leave us? THIS IS WHY CHILDREN ARE WHAT THEY ARE TODAY IN THE PUBLIC SCHOOLS. There are private schools and homeschooling available where the parents can call the shots.

I am a good teacher so most days no child is sitting OR walking. But if positive reinforcement and redirection don't work, I am not sending a child to the principal when I can make attempts to change behavior myself. Because where I teach, if your child makes it to the principal they are either getting a spanking or they are going home. Let some take off work several times this year and then ask how they feel about their child walking the playground?

Kim

[allerseelen4]

There are private schools and homeschooling available where the parents can call the shots.

I had to laugh here! Kids can get away with what they want when they are homeschooling (or rather, get away with what their parents will let them), but I have taught in the public and private sector, and let me tell you (not the poster, more generally here...) the behavior that is exhibited by many students in public schools (where parents get upset if their child has to miss recess, stay after school, miss a field trip, etc...) would NEVER be tolerated in most private schools. They don't need, and don't want those types of students there.

And yes, that includes kindergarten!

This is probably a topic for another thread, but I know, in real life, way to many parents that think their precious angel can do no wrong.

[crick]

OP thanks everyone for their input and the poll ended. With all answers and input received, the thread is now closed.

Thanks again everyone for your input, it was appreciated!