[mommytoEli]

ROFL! ahhh....out of the mouths of babes.

[JillnChris]

AAAAMMMMEEEEN!!! I think that was the best response to any post about parenting that I have ever seen!
I also wanted to say Good For You to MommtoEli for being a partner in your sons education. Isn't that how it should realy be? I always feel so sad for the kids who's parents could care less. I def. think that being an active participant is best for everyone.

Originally Posted by angelkisses0102

mommytoeli~
I think it was way back on this thread you mentioned my quote...LOVE IT! I keep thinking about changing it but haven't found anything to replace it with.

I have been reading and thinking about this thread since I first responded...especially the posts from parents who think that if a child is raised *properly* and *held* to certain standards that this or any one size fits all *punishment* is fitting and if we just hold our kids more acccountable all will be well.

Up until March 15, 2004 I probably would have agreed with you. I had the *perfect* child...the easy to parent child...the post-institutionalized adoptee who transitioned perfectly...the very verbal and highly intelligent, super well behaved daughter. Then everything I ever knew about children, parenting, relationships, and me was abruptly challenged...I suddenly became the parent to the polar opposite child of my first child. I became the parent of a surprise special needs child...a child who many would not even agree was special needs by looking at him...the 'joy' invisible special needs. Plus his issues were at the time not widely accepted by everyone, even in the adoption community (attachment) and even most his continuing issues (sensory and significant developmental delays) are not obvious.

One of the best things about becoming the parent to this type of child is that it stripped away many of my rigid beliefs on parenting children and myself. I realized I just got pretty dang lucky that my daughter was easy to parent...it honestly had NOTHING to do with my ability to parent. It had everything to do with how my daughter was 'hard-wired' and how she decided to face the challenges of life. (Of course now that she is seven and in 2nd grade...oh boy is it a whole new ball game with her...and she is no longer my easier to parent child...but that is another story/post.)

I am much, much more compassionate toward the parents of other kids...and the kids themselves. I'll never forget the day two years ago in Wal-Mart when the mom of a lil' guy about 4 was trying everything in her power to get him in his stroller, just so they could simply shop. He was thrashing and screaming at the top of his lungs...resisting every attempt she ever so calmly made. I was in line and people were commenting (not so nicely) and my first thought was I wanted to run over and give her a hug and see if I could help. Why? Because I knew EXACTLY how she felt as I had been there and done that too many times to count.

All of our kids are all unique...they are individuals...they are different. Some are easy to parent...some aren't. Often it has nothing to do with us as parents and everything to do with our kids. Some of us are forced to change ourselves and realize that parenting is an ever evolving relationship with our kids. What works for one child will have the opposite effect on another child...sometimes even within the same family (living that!!!)

I think teachers and schools should allow for this as well. We are blessed to be in a great public elementary school in a decent district. We have been blessed to have teachers who want a relationship with us as parents...partners in raising and educating the child. I could list countless examples but suffice it to say that there are no one size fits all *punishments* at this school...there is no one size fits all classrooms...they, with the parents input, look at the child and see what will work best for them within the various classroom settings. My DD is in a multi-age classroom...my son in a high functioning special needs classroom. My neighbors kids are in traditional classroom settings...and all are succeeding! I KNOW we are lucky...but it also shows that educating to the individual child can and does happen...even in a public school setting. And hopefully someday this will be a viable option for all of our kids...but in the mean time...when we as parents see something that doesn't seem quite right for our child...I hope we continue to speak up and challenge it. Because for every parent that speaks up...my guess is there are plenty of others who silently suffer.

Great thread by the way!

[BethanyB]

As a teacher I disagree with walking as a punishment for any child. I don't think physical punishment is okay.

However, I also think that many parents don't understand how hard it is to run a classroom. I teach first grade and I have a behavior system where the first time you get a warning. The second time you get 5 minutes off recess. The third you get 10 minutes off and the the fourth you lose recess and get a phone call home.

Now because I teach first grade I expect the kids to be restless. I expect kids to not be able to sit still. I expect kids to have a hard time not calling out. Which is why I use positive reinforcement BEFORE we need to even get to taking five minutes off. We do all sorts of cute things to keep the kids involved and on task and at the same time having fun without humiliation. I will start singing a cute song if the class gets too loud. They know to lower their voices when they hear me sing and they even get cute little smiles on their face because it's a funny reminder. Now, I could yell and scream but that is NOT what good teachers do to keep their class under control.

I also give table points for the quietest table during seat work time and the table with the most points at the end of the week gets to pick a prize from the prize box. I also give kids little happy notes on the spot for good behavior so they work for the good things while trying to keep the inappropriate behavior down.

I typically make a child turn their behavior card if they talk back or are disrespectful. And this DOES happy even in first grade. I also make children turn their cards for bullying, hitting, teasing, or disrupting the class. And again remember that they get plenty of warnings and understand what will happen to them.

Children with IEP's or special health issues like ADHD have special plans where they have their own personal charts and goals and are rewarded more often. As well as giving them more room to get up and walk around because they need that. So kids with special needs ARE being helped in a way that works for them.

It is very hard to discipline children right on the spot. So if Johnny should have been working on his project for the last ten minutes but all he's been doing is avoiding the work by making farting noises and making the other children laugh and go off task as well, making Johnny go over to a quiet part of the room for a time out would not work. Because Johnny would be getting exactly what he wanted. To get out of his work. Most kids enjoy classroom time outs because it gets them out of their school work so the discipline method is not effective.

Now missing recess is motivating to them. No one wants to miss out on play time. It is not meant to be humiliating. I tell kids if you continue to play during work times (that are usually fun in first grade btw) than you will miss out on recess time. Being a teacher and controlling 21 little kids is very hard. Making every parent and child happy is very hard. As a teacher, I have to worry about all of the students in my class. If the class is out of control, the children who are trying to get an education suffer.

I would speak to the teacher in this case and then if she does not change some things I would go to the principal anyway. If you make no headway there I would go to the superintendent.

Good luck!

[mommytoEli]

Originally Posted by BethanyB

Being a teacher and controlling 21 little kids is very hard. Making every parent and child happy is very hard. As a teacher, I have to worry about all of the students in my class. If the class is out of control, the children who are trying to get an education suffer.

you are right. i think what makes my situation unique is that i also was a teacher...back before class sized reduction. i know it is hard...and i do not want to take away from that fact. i just think it could be done better. one of the neat things about education is that it IS always changing. what would school be like if we were still sitting kids in the corner with dunce hats? sometimes....things have to change.

one thing that you point out is individual behavior plans for students with disabilities or issues like ADHD. i will say, that is not something i thought about. i supposed with a note in hand from ds's dr dx'ing him, i could make a case to get him a 504 and help set up a discipline plan. that is something i will have to keep in the back of my head if his behavior is a problem, or the consequences become a problem. thank you for reminding me of that.

i was talking to my friend, who is also a k teacher...that i used to teach with, on the phone last night and i told her, "i have become the parent i always hated- difficult, over-involved, and questioning." i still feel that i have to speak up...but i acknowledge i'm being a pain by not going with the flow...but in the end....i just have to do right by my kid.

[BethanyB]

Mommy to Eli, you may very well be dealing with a difficult teacher. I am just kinda shocked because if this is her first year, most first year teachers are shy and intimidated and certainly not forceful so it may very well be that this is her personality. In situations like this you need to speak up for your child. Now trust that I have had parents who were obnoxious for no reason and however unpleasant, we as teachers just have to deal with that. I always tell other teachers that I never mind if a parent questions what I am doing in the classroom as long as it is in a place of kindness and respect and wanting to know more. I don't respond to nastiness. I don't respond to people telling me how to do my job but I do respond well to a parent who comes in respectfully and says, "You know, this is just not working for my child. Do you think we can try something else?" I will work with parents to help their kids reach their goals. I do listen when people come to me in a way that is not offensive.

I will do behavior charts with kids who do not have diagnosed problems or IEP's. Getting a 504 will put things into place in a structured way, but many times I will use behavior charts for kids who just talk WAY too much. They love having that cute chart on their desk and getting stickers a few times a day. They especially love getting rewards when they complete whatever goal they set out to accomplish. The teacher may work with you on this if things become tough with him.

For kids with ADHD, I would allow them to stand behind their desks if they wanted to. I would send them on errands to get them out and about and moving. I would also let them go into the hall when they are feeling "restless" to push against the wall or squeeze one of those stress balls. You may want to offer that up as an option for your child.

My kids are three and four and I KNOW my daughter is going to be a handful in school. So I'm sure I will be very involved with her future teachers. LOL!

[carolynpep73]

You said it perfect...you have to do what's right by your child. There is no one size fits all...even in T-shirts.

I've been thinking a lot about this post since it first came up. When I had my class at recess the other day I thought in my head, what would it be like if I made so-and-so walk around the fence for 5 or 10 minutes. For most kids, it would "probably" work. Humiliation can be effective. The big question here is, is it going to make a positive change?

I've been teaching 1st grade for 9 years. It's a tough job, but one I love. I've learned what works and doesn't work. Every student has a unique blueprint. I have a student this year that was defined as "oppositional and defiant" by his K teacher, especially when it came to doing math. So I pulled the child's IEP. His overall IQ in math is 64!!! Don't you think you'd be "oppositional and defiant" during math time if you were operating with an IQ well below average. His overall IQ is 84, which is low in and of itself. I don't see him as ODD, I see him as a very frustrated child who doesn't have the coping mechanisms to deal with the stress he feels in the academic environment he's in. My job is to work with him the best I can and attempt to get a more proper placement for him if that doesn't work. I certainly wouldn't make him walk for 15 minutes at recess for having a bad day.

Children exhibit behaviors for various reasons. Sometimes it's a bad morning at home, a bully at home or on the bus, a lack of a routine or positive role model, or ADHD.

There must be consequences for poor choices. That is a definite. We all know what can happen when children have no consequences for poor choices. It's important that we show our children/students that we are in charge without taking away their self-esteem.

It sounds to me like your child's teacher just needs a little polishing. I don't know her, so I won't judge her. My guess is, she probably has some very wonderful teaching qualities about her aside from this screwy discipline system she has.

PS- If my principal EVER found out that I was making a child walk around the recess field for 15 min as a punishment I would be the one getting in trouble. That would NEVER fly at my school.

[mommytoEli]

Originally Posted by carolynpep73

There must be consequences for poor choices. That is a definite. We all know what can happen when children have no consequences for poor choices. It's important that we show our children/students that we are in charge without taking away their self-esteem.

i agree...well said.

There is no one size fits all...even in T-shirts

have you noticed lately the shirts that say, "one size fits MOST." lol....yeah...that is slightly more realistic...but it should probably say, "one size fits some." and i would still know that does not include me.

[carolynpep73]

Yeah, I totally ignore that one-size-fits-most thing...that hardly every applies to me. If it's not made in a tent factory, I'm guessing it's not going to fit my large-marge butt

[mommytoEli]

Originally Posted by carolynpep73

Yeah, I totally ignore that one-size-fits-most thing...that hardly every applies to me. If it's not made in a tent factory, I'm guessing it's not going to fit my large-marge butt

ROFL!!!!!!!

[xxsurroundedbyxy]

Originally Posted by carolynpep73

I've been teaching 1st grade for 9 years. It's a tough job, but one I love. I've learned what works and doesn't work. Every student has a unique blueprint. I have a student this year that was defined as "oppositional and defiant" by his K teacher, especially when it came to doing math. So I pulled the child's IEP. His overall IQ in math is 64!!! Don't you think you'd be "oppositional and defiant" during math time if you were operating with an IQ well below average. His overall IQ is 84, which is low in and of itself. I don't see him as ODD, I see him as a very frustrated child who doesn't have the coping mechanisms to deal with the stress he feels in the academic environment he's in. My job is to work with him the best I can and attempt to get a more proper placement for him if that doesn't work. I certainly wouldn't make him walk for 15 minutes at recess for having a bad day.

You have had this child how long.....two weeks? Be very careful tossing out the K teacher's assessment until you have had him as long as she did.

I'm curious as to what you do for discipline in your classroom since you don't use time-out, walking, sending to the principal, or any of those things as they can be "humiliating" and hurt a child's self-esteem.

[Larue]

Wow. I am floored. We are in fact talking about a 5 year old...right?! Walking the fence?! Or is it the plank?! When I was this age, I was eating glue and struggling with learning how to tie my shoes. It may just be me, but I thought that the parent/teacher relationship was supposed to be a collaborative one. I would never allow anyone to treat my child like this. carolynpep73...I would love for you to be Sabrina's 1st grade teacher. Then she would embrace learning. Rather then think of it as a punishment.

[crick]

Larue - kids still eat glue in kindy, it's just now you get a phone call and follow up email regarding it. Oh, and if they happen to snip off some of their hair, that's quite the phone call. LOL!

My dd did this stuff in kindy and the teacher emailed me being very concerned about it since "Most children are past this by kindergarten" (really???) I thanked her for her concerns and said "Unless she cut someone else's hair, I'm okay with it."

Bethany & all teachers here....I absolutely agree that it's hard to manage a classroom and there have to be rules & consequences. Typically I'm a big supporter of my kids' teachers and usually it ends up them being surprised that I support their decision or concerns.

[mommytoEli]

Originally Posted by crick

Typically I'm a big supporter of my kids' teachers and usually it ends up them being surprised that I support their decision or concerns.

yeah...earlier this week i had to contact ds14's teacher...he got his first highschool detention.....imagine his surprise when i wasn't calling to get him out of detention....the first thing he said was "ugh...i'll exempt ds from detention." me: "um, no, he'll be at detention, now let's talk." lol. the next day he told ds "your mom is cool." look at me...i'm cool.

[crick]

Well we already know how cool you are Brook!

My dd is the "Strike Queen" in our family (our school does strikes for everything...forget your pencil, talking, etc) and things that she feels are dumb. Pretty much everytime I tell her "Look...if you don't want these strikes, then you need to remember your pencil, stop talking in class and follow ALL the rules the teacher gives you no matter how dumb you think they are." Teacher emailed to tell me "S told me her mom said my rules are dumb but I have to follow them anyway". Sigh...LOL! I got that squared away and she was cool.

[Michelle Smiles]

Wow - I hope you didn't move to my neighborhood (not because I wouldn't want you as a neighbor...because I don't want that teacher in my childrens' school).