[JustBarbara]

Oh I hope her baby doesn't have to crawl the fence the first time she 'projects'.

[ocracoke]

No no no! Absolutely not. Physical discipline in a parental option. Not a teacher option. I would not sign it. I would not allow it. I would write a formal letter to the school and school board complaining. Humiliation and physical discipline is not an effective for teaching (hello this is a school!) a child proper behaviors. And better yet with that attitude I would be removing my child from her care. No matter what grade. I don't spoil my child. I have lots of expectations of her. I address issues as they happen. But nobody gets to treat my child like that. And if she can't find an appropriate way to teach a child then maybe she needs to walk the fence until she figures it out.

Samantha

[mommytoEli]

Originally Posted by ocracoke

And if she can't find an appropriate way to teach a child then maybe she needs to walk the fence until she figures it out.

Samantha

ROFL...you guys are killing me! i also am so glad i am not the only one who thinks this is out of line!

[robandjulie]

1. Her attitude is unbelieveable!

2. my initial reaction was "no, absolutely not!" thinking you meant spanking or similar. Then when I read it, I thought about changing my vote to "yes, it's ok" because while I completely disagree with her implementation of the rule, if you count a time out as physical punishment (which I guess it is, since you're physically limited) then I think that's appropriate with the right application--which this is not.

What bothers me here is that it's not just physical punishment as a time out or doing a service to the class (like having to stay in and help tidy the room b/c he made a huge mess)--it's public shaming. And while I don't believe that all kids are precious delicate snowflakes that can't take a little constructive criticism or learn to do better by being ashamed of their intentional misbehavior when it's pointed out to them that they screwed up and it's hurting others and should apologize and make it right, I really don't think it's appropriate for a 5 year old AT ALL and especially b/c it's likely to be completely unrelated to the "crime".

[Waiting4Celeste]

When I saw the title of this thread, I was thinking you were referring to spanking, not walking a fence. I can see how you could consider walking the fence for 30 minutes a "physical punishment", but walking the fence for 5 minutes IN MY OPINION, is not "physical punishment." There are WAY worse things a teacher could do to a kid who is misbehaving than having him walk a fence.

WITH THAT SAID...
1 - No, a Kindergartener should NOT be required to walk for 30 minutes on a hot day for a little infraction two hours earlier... but I remember all too well sitting by the fence at recess because I was misbehaving when I was that age... and I tell ya, it made me shape up! I did NOT want to miss recess. I am sure this is going to ruffle feathers, but I really believe that we caudle our kids too much these days. Someone mentioned that the kids would be embarrassed by walking the fence - well, constantly acting up in class and disrupting the learning of others is pretty embarrassing too.

2 - Different methods of discipline works for different kids. There should be consequences for their actions and those consequences SHOULDN'T be comfortable. It also depends on the misbehavior. If she is adding up little infractions all day and then BAM! they are required to walk for 30 minutes, that seems a bit harsh.

3 - In Kindergarten, there isn't always an immediate opportunity to give a consequence - but I don't think it is out of line to delay the consequence. Younger children might not understand the connection between behavior now and consequence in a hour - but most Kindergarteners will remember quite well why they are getting punished an hour after it happens.

4 - Recess is a time for ACTIVITY... for some kids, the ONLY activity they get all day. Perhaps that's why she makes them walk and not just sit. And I don't have any problems with that... if they weren't walking the fence - they would probably be out running around anyway. There are plenty of kids who NEED the exercise! BUT - 5 minutes would probably do it. Were those time frames chosen because that's how long their recesses last? I remember having a 15 minute recess and a 30 minute recess. There were times that kids had to miss the whole 30 minutes recess.

My BIGGEST problem with that whole situation is the teacher's attitude.
It makes me wonder: (1) if she enjoys handing out the punishment,
(2) how many complaints she has had - especially when she said that whole spiel about not calling her later... hmm... has she had a few calls in the past, perhaps?!
(3) what does the principal say about it? Typically, principals have to approve discipline tactics that are used in their schools.

I wouldn't have a problem with walking the fence for part of recess instead of them just sitting by the fence - as long as it was done as a "means to an end" so to speak. My son needs to get that energy out during recess or it could lead to more discipline issues later in the day. I wouldn't be opposed to signing a form that said he would walk for a REASONABLE amount of time, as long as I felt that the teacher's heart was in the right place. If Jacob's sweet, awesome Kindergarten teacher from last year had this policy, I'd sign it in a heartbeat because she was ALL about the kids and I know she loved them and wanted them to succeed.

And just one last thing... I am sure that I had a different attitude BEFORE I had a Kindergartener! There are times that you (and the teacher) may feel you are at wit's end and will try ANYTHING to get your child to focus on learning! Trust me, I've been there. But in the end, if my child learns what he needs to learn and realizes that in life, there are consequences for your actions - I would call that SUCCESS.

OK, OK, go ahead - I have my armor on and am prepared for the backlash for my comments.

[Slatond10]

So what happens if you DON't sign?

Hmm ... I just had a long conversation w/ the director because I was told by the teacher for Pre-K if the child was in trouble w/ AM teacher then they wouldn't be allowed to participate in PM activity. They would have to sit and "watch" only. WHICH I HAD A MAJOR ISSUE WITH THIS APPROACH! @ 3 I don't agree with double jeopardy type discipline.

So the punishment u refer to I also think is WRONG! I do understand "time out" or sitting for 5 min b4 being allowed to play @ recess... etc. But lets be real!

[mommytoEli]

Originally Posted by robandjulie

2. my initial reaction was "no, absolutely not!" thinking you meant spanking or similar. Then when I read it, I thought about changing my vote to "yes, it's ok" because while I completely disagree with her implementation of the rule, if you count a time out as physical punishment (which I guess it is, since you're physically limited) then I think that's appropriate with the right application--which this is not.

i can change your answer if you want, just pm me.

[mommytoEli]

there...i changed the title of the thread. walking is very much physical....but i understand the confusion.

[carolynpep73]

OH lord, here I go again!

INAPPROPRIATE!! NEVER!! Talk to your principal or transfer classrooms/schools. That is not an acceptable consequence for inappropriate classroom behavior. Yeah, let's make kids really hate exercise...great idea! To me it's the equivalent of making a child stand in the corner with a dunce hat holding a dictionary in each hand.

This teacher needs to chill out and take a positive discipline class or something.

I'm so glad I don't work in that school. I don't think I'd be able to keep my mouth shut

[SKL]

It's teachers like this that make kids hate school. Why did she find it necessary to try to intimidate you?

I don't think walking the fence is a big deal. That said, the time is too long for his age. Also, I would tend to think this would have the opposite of the effect she wanted because it rewards the child with attention in case that was what he was seeking. Also it sets the child up to be considered by himself and others as a trouble maker, with the usual "self-fulfilling" implications. And I also agree that waiting for recess is not effective at this age. However, I don't feel this will harm your child. If the teacher wants to do something that will NOT improve her class discipline, it is probably appropriate to give your view on it, but really it's her problem in my opinion. I don't feel the child will be harmed.

When I was in KG, my teacher used a ping-pong paddle on kids' butts when they got a little out of hand, as in, crying in frustration because they couldn't sound out the words. I was pretty sure that was a thing of the past, so I was surprised when I saw your post. But walking the fence is really just a different twist on a time out, in my opinion.

I feel this won't be the last time you see discipline you don't agree with at school. You will be hard-pressed to find a teacher who has the same discipline style as you, and that's not necessarily a bad thing, as it's good for kids to experience different styles, provided no abuse occurs.

That said, I don't think you "have" to sign, and personally I wouldn't just because of her bad attitude.

[SKL]

Oh, and I remember the one and only time I was punished in KG - I had to "sit in the thinking chair" in front of the class - and it was so traumatic, I cried and was afraid of the teacher FOREVER (even years later), BUT it sure worked. So a "mere" time-out can be very unpleasant too, depending on the child, but in KG, the teacher should have a range of non-violent options to keep her class in order.

[mommytoEli]

mommytoEli reporting for battle

just kidding....i'll be nice.

There are WAY worse things a teacher could do to a kid who is misbehaving than having him walk a fence.

yeah, but just bc you can think of something worse doesn't make what will happen better. it is not ok. shorter periods of walking might have been ok, but it doesn't matter what the time limit is, it is very much a physical discipline. just bc someone isn't taking their hand to my kid, doesn't mean it isn't physical. walking for 30 minutes might be painful to a 5 year old. are they even allowed to do this in prisons anymore? i know you can't do it as a foster parent...teachers shouldn't be allowed to either.

Someone mentioned that the kids would be embarrassed by walking the fence - well, constantly acting up in class and disrupting the learning of others is pretty embarrassing too.

you have a point. but they are 5. 5 is little. it is their first year of school. they will mess up alot bc they are learning to "do school." if she can not manage to re-direct a child, or control a child with proximity control, or remove the child from the immediate situation, then she needs to come up with something other than kindergarten boot camp. i did not enroll my son in military school. if i did, i would then expect this.

2 - Different methods of discipline works for different kids. There should be consequences for their actions and those consequences SHOULDN'T be comfortable. It also depends on the misbehavior. If she is adding up little infractions all day and then BAM! they are required to walk for 30 minutes, that seems a bit harsh.

i agree. i even think for some kids this WOULD work. i still don't think it makes it right. consequences shouldn't be comfortable, but they also shouldn't involve physical work or discipline. the infractions add up all day long. recess is not until 2 o'clock. they start school at 8:30. how many times do you think she will have to talk with some of these kids in 6.5 hours? for many of these guys, it will probably be often. they have never been to school. they are little. their minutes on the fence are gonna add up fast!

3 - In Kindergarten, there isn't always an immediate opportunity to give a consequence - but I don't think it is out of line to delay the consequence. Younger children might not understand the connection between behavior now and consequence in a hour - but most Kindergarteners will remember quite well why they are getting punished an hour after it happens.

yeah....i agree and disagree. i think you can tell a K at 2:00, remember when you had a hard time keeping your hands off emma today? now you are going to walk the fence." but again, recess is at 2. what if he couldn't keep his hands off emma from 8:30-9:30, earned himself 10 minutes of fence time, and then pulled it together and was PERFECT from 9:30 until 2. and then you punish him by forcing him to walk by all his playing friends. yeah....not cool. not fair. again-- redirection, proximity control, removal from a situation, if that doesn't solve the problem, then they should probably go to the office right then, not wait hours for humiliation and physical discipline.

4 - Recess is a time for ACTIVITY... for some kids, the ONLY activity they get all day. Perhaps that's why she makes them walk and not just sit. And I don't have any problems with that... if they weren't walking the fence - they would probably be out running around anyway. There are plenty of kids who NEED the exercise! BUT - 5 minutes would probably do it. Were those time frames chosen because that's how long their recesses last? I remember having a 15 minute recess and a 30 minute recess. There were times that kids had to miss the whole 30 minutes recess.

yes. recess is 30 minutes. i have no beef with missing 30 minutes of recess. i have big beef with being made to walk for 30 minutes. they are 5. if my 5 year old were playing, he would have opportunities to sit when tired, get a drink when thirsty, move to the shade for a rest, sit on a swing, sit in a play house, he would not move constantly for 30 minutes.

My BIGGEST problem with that whole situation is the teacher's attitude.
It makes me wonder: (1) if she enjoys handing out the punishment,
(2) how many complaints she has had - especially when she said that whole spiel about not calling her later... hmm... has she had a few calls in the past, perhaps?!

um...she's new. lol. first year in K, first year in the school, was a teacher last year, but did pull out with kids, didn't have a class. of course, right? so it is not like she can even say this works for her.....i guess the question will be how many she will get this year.

(3) what does the principal say about it? Typically, principals have to approve discipline tactics that are used in their schools.

i'm pretty sure he doesn't care. i said it before, but each morning he ridicules at least one teacher over the PA...like "Hey Mr. Smith, do you think you could get your attendance in on time today? Kids, what do you think about the fact that your teacher can't turn stuff in on time?" so....he seems to think that humiliation is a great way to run a school. should mr.smith turn in his attendance on time? of course. could he file a grievance with the union for the way it was handled? yes. too bad there isn't a union for K's. i think that is my point....yeah, you did something wrong, something should happen, but i don't think that means we throw love and logic out the door and think about the best way to humiliate or physically punish kids (or teachers ) into behaving.

I wouldn't have a problem with walking the fence for part of recess instead of them just sitting by the fence - as long as it was done as a "means to an end" so to speak. My son needs to get that energy out during recess or it could lead to more discipline issues later in the day. I wouldn't be opposed to signing a form that said he would walk for a REASONABLE amount of time, as long as I felt that the teacher's heart was in the right place.

i agree to an extent. i think i wouldn't have had as MUCH of an issue if it was like 1 minute, 3 minutes, 5 minutes. but i still don't think i'd sign.

OK, OK, go ahead - I have my armor on and am prepared for the backlash for my comments.

i think these kinds of things are good to discuss. you had some very valid points, but i'm sure we will just have to agree to disagree on alot of what was said.

[Mindybeth6]

Oh Brook....NO.....NO NO NO. I do not agree with this at ALL. Not even one bit. That type of punishment is detrimental to young children. It's a terrible thing to be singled out in front of your peers, regardless of what you did to deserve the punishment. I am shocked that a teacher would still practice this type of punishment and if I were you I would NOT sign that paper and I would go to the principal of the school to express my concerns. That is absurd. We had Kindy orientation last night for Alec and they talked about the "plan" that is school-wide for his school. The students DO lose recess if they misbhave and are warned but it has to be 4, 5, and 6th time earsn detention. I was like DETENTION!!!??? Well....let them tell me that I have to bring my child in to school a half an hour early for detention. Ummm....NO. And I will be telling his teacher at my conference on Thursday that if my son does something to deserve detention, which I HIGHLY doubt he ever will, that I will not be bringing him in for detention in Kindergarten. Sorry. I highly disagree with that. Jr. High, of course. Kindergarten. NO. So while Alec may not be walking the fence, I am NOT happy with the discipline plan his his school has either. OH...and I can tell you that as a teacher this is one of the hardest things I have ever done, send Alec to school. I don't know WHAT I will do if I don't like his classroom or the ways she teaches the class. It will KILL Me.

[Clare'sMom]

So do the kids have to wear leg irons and break up rocks with a pick axe while they are "walking the fence"???
Wow she teaches Kindergarden. How about just a time out? She has got quite the Attitude!!

You did the right thing! Make her talk to you about it..... Do you have the option of another school? The Pricipal dosen't sound much better!

[mommytoEli]

Originally Posted by Mindybeth6

OH...and I can tell you that as a teacher this is one of the hardest things I have ever done, send Alec to school. I don't know WHAT I will do if I don't like his classroom or the ways she teaches the class. It will KILL Me.

yeah....there's a lot that will go on and not go on in there that will make me cringe....it is killing me already. but unless i want to home school him, he has to go, i have to get over it, and just know i will have to work with him at home, which is fine. but the discpiline is where i draw the line.