[mamaskoby]

Thanks to everyone that replied to my previous post.
I couldn't stand the crying....We have gotten nowhere. Its been two days and today was the worst. This time I rocked him to sleep (Real easy in the rocker) but he wakes up everytime I tried to transfer him to his crib. I spent two hours trying to get him in there while he was asleep but he always wook up!
Finally I thought maybe I could lay him on the floor (nice new carpeting). He wook up and had a 1/2 hour fit!!! He kicked he screamed he cried.. I tried to rub his back and told him it was ok, over and over....it made no difference to him.
Now my 5 year old son is upset because I just spent all morning trying to get his brother to sleep...and I don't blame my 5 year old, he is feeling rejected.
I am feeling like the worst mom in the world. I should be able to put my one year old down for a nap and then go play with my 5 year old and have some one on one time with him too!!!!
Now the baby is up for good, the 5 year old is cranky and its going to be a long day!!!!
Help me my forum friends! What am I doing wrong??? My baby just hates his crib and he hates sleeping....
We need he lp!

[DPline]

I am a big fan of the book Healthy Sleep Habits, Happy Child and the philosophy that sleep begats sleeps. It sounds like he might be overtired and fighting sleep. You might try a really early bedtime tonight - we did 5:30/6:00 PM. Then we followed a VERY strict nap schedule that they suggested in the book of AM nap at 9:00 AM and an afternoon nap at 1:00 PM. Once we got her sleeping, we moved bedtime back to 6:00-6:30 PM. I know it sounds REALLY early, but later did NOT work for her.

You are not a bad mom! Sleep issues are hard, hard, hard. But you will get through this and it has absolutely nothing to do with your mothering 'skill.' It is about learning what works for you child.

(((hugs)))

[dianneemily]

Oh, I'm sorry. Believe me I have been there, so many times and I have also felt like the worst mother in the world. For today, will he watch TV for a little while so you can get a break? Just let him stay up and try to put him to bed early tonight. Maybe if he goes to sleep early, then you can spend some time with your 5 year old.
Here is a question for you. Are you married? My dh can get both my girls to go to sleep much easier than I can. They both tend to keep themselves awake when I am in the picture.
If you are married, maybe tomorrow you could leave the house either around naptime or bedtime and dh could give it a try. At least try to get him some sleep because it never works when everyone is tired and cranky. Just a thought.

I really, really do know how hard this is. I have been there, and it has been ugly.

[becky_flo]

I agree with DPline, an early bed time might do the trick. It worked for us. I know it's hard to listen to the crying, but, if you're going to do the Healthy Sleep Habits, Happy Child method, you've got to stick with it.

He also might be at the age where maybe he doesn't need a morning nap, you're the only one who knows. If you try to skip the morning nap you'll probably get a decent afternoon nap out of him.

My son is 14 months. He goes to bed between 7 and 7:30. Just last week he stopped the morning nap. He naps now from about 1 to 3, give or take a little. We followed Healthy Sleep Habits.....and it worked like a charm within a few days. Believe me hearing him cry is horrible, but it stopped after a 3 days.

I wish you the best and I hope you and your little one get some rest.

[DPline]

I wanted to add that while the Healthy Sleep book does talk about CIO, we did not do that. Just getting her to bed early and on a very strict schedule and never allowing her to get overtired did the trick for us. Not to start the CIO debate again, but the philosophy of sleep begats sleep in the book does not require CIO.

[TwoBoystoLove]

We really struggled with our first son and sleep. One of his fits was our salvation. He was in the crib kicking and screaming and I don't know what else when the crib rail broke! We had just set up a twin bed in his room for me to sleep in on bad nights. I laid him down on the bed and No Kidding! he was asleep in less than 30 seconds. Our only thought is he was frightened of the crib. He was 18mos old. Pretty young for a bed, but we haven't had trouble with sleep since.

[luvcynee]

my son(2 now) goes to bed anywhere from 6pm to 7 pm-and if he is even 15 minutes after that-he is up and down all night! it does sound early, but he sleeps soooooo well. He takes about 1 1/2 hour nap around 11-12. and sleeps about 11-12 hours at night. I also use white noise for him.. for naptimes(and bedtime sometimes) he could hear all that was going on during the day(which is more than at night). Don't laugh: but I just have a fan in there to make the white noise, and it is perfect!
Good Luck
Cynthia

[luvcynee]

P.S. It is a tad early , especially in the summer, and I get alot of crap from freinds and family -but it is soooooooo worth it to me, and my son because he sleeps through the night, and sleeps well. (not many of my family or friends can say their chldren do that)

[michelemk]

It is hard for me to offer any advice without knowing what your schedule is for the day...what time does your son wake up? How does he sleep at night? What time in the AM does he start getting fussy? Does he play ok by himself or does he like to be held a lot? How did he sleep in Guatemala--in bed with FM? I noticed you came home in January---what have been his sleep habits since then? Knowing some of these things might help me to try to help you---if you're open to sharing your schedule!

Michele

[debhorner04]

You are not a bad mom! It's going to take some time, some persistence on your part, and eventually you will get to spend some time with your 5 year old. First and formost, be consistent! DD gets a bath by 7:30, and then has some quuiet time ont he floor with some books, in a dimly lit room. No toys with sound or lights! she then gets her bottle and goes to sleep---sometimes with and sometimes without soothing music in the background. Naptime is inconsistent, but she will take at least 2 maps during the day---short ones, generally about 45 minutes, but she sleeps through the night 9-12 hours. The first few nights of screaming were heart-breaking, but I soon learned that I couldn't go in to sooth her---she expected that and screamed more! I made sure she was well fed, diaper was clean, and then she needed to put herself to sleep. She never made herself sick with the crying. It only took a few days and she was going to sleep without the screaming. I found it best to occupy myself and not focus on the crying. You will know the difference between a cry when something is wrong and when he is just overtired and wants you to hold him. It DOES get better! Also, if he is teething, that may be the problem-----we do a gum massage (the rubber thimble like thing with bristles on the end-----found in Ora-gel gum cleaner packages). DD loves the gum massage! Also some teething tablets and ora-gel. Whatever you do, don't consider yourself a bad mommy-----choose the method that is right for your family, stick with it, give it some time, and give yourself credit for being a concerned mommy! Good luck!

[jules17]

Have you tried letting him rock in a swing? That was my ANGEL for our oldest son. I could put him in there and crank up to high and he would rock/sleep for his whole nap.

By the time he outgrew the swing, he was used to putting himself to sleep.

No tears, muss or fuss.

Best of luck to you!

[Devora]

I didn't see your previous post so I don't know how much this will apply, but here's my typical response to sleep issues:

First off, whatever advice you receive here (including what I'm about to offer)....nothing will be a magic cure. Sleep is one of the hardest issues to deal with and everyone will have a lot of contradictory advice -- because each of us has found something different that works for us and for our children. The following is what we learned when we brought our son home – take whatever (if anything) seems like it will work for you and discard the rest.

(1) Try to set aside all of the subtle and blatant judgments about you as a parent that you may be feeling. Sleep seems to be one of the biggest ways these days that we judge ourselves and others as parents. A lot of times it is subtle and unintentional. But with a small child one of the first questions people will ask you is, “How are they sleeping?” If you say anything other than “Great!” it can leave you feeling inadequate as a parent. This is completely unnecessary. I know how frustrating it is to hear, "Just do this...." as if it's really that easy. The fact is, dealing with sleep is never easy except for parents whose children have never had any difficulties with sleep.

(2) Every child is different. It will take time to figure out what works for you and your child. What worked great for someone else (or for your older child) may be entirely wrong for your child.

(3)Your child may still be transitioning. I see from your timeline he's been home since January. However, sometimes sleep is the last thing that settles in so it may still be part of his transition process. Too, illness, disruption in the schedule, growth spurts, developmental spurts, and teething can all unsettle a child who normally sleeps well. These are yet more reasons why #1 is so important. Until a child has securely attached and the transition is over, it is recommended not to let them “cry it out.” Maybe eventually that is what you will need to do. But in the beginning your child needs to know they can trust you to respond to them.

(4) Overtired = sleep less. While all kids are different, it's common children in the first couple of years to need 12-16 hours of sleep in a 24 hour period. If he's getting much less than 12, chances are he's overtired. Paradoxically, he will then have a harder time getting to sleep.

As for advice...This is what we found. Basically, our son needed to learn that his crib was a safe place to be, that we would come for him when he needed us, and that he could fall asleep on his own. How did we accomplish that? We took ideas from Tracey Hogg's book "The Baby Whisperer." (Awful title, I know!!) The book isn’t actually quite as helpful as an online interview with her where she’s more practical and also talks about older children. (But the book provides a framework for understanding the interview. You can find the interview by doing a search using her name +sleep.) She advocates for the fact that we need to not rely on what she calls props to get our children to sleep -- whether that's a bottle, sleeping on us, being rocked, etc. We do need to give them comfort items like a plush toy or something, but she sees that as different from being the thing/person that puts them to sleep.

Instead of crying it out, she talks about sitting with your child, patting them, and shushing them to sleep. The idea is that you do as little as necessary -- at first it may be patting and loud (like a water faucet) shushing. As time goes on you may be able to lightly pat. Then you may be able to sit next to the crib. (For us, we patted very little when our son fought sleep because it made him mad and he pushed our hands away -- the important part is that we payed attention to his cues and followed him, so patting wasn’t typically part of our approach. Being next to him and shushing were.)

As for time, she says you do this for 40 minutes; if he's not asleep or seeming comfortable and relaxed in his crib, take a 20 minute break of quiet activity; then go at it for another 40 minutes. Usually they'll fall asleep in that time. If not, then you take a break for food if it's food time, or else another 20 minute break. At first it can mean that you feel like you spend all day trying to get him to sleep. But she says that in 1-2 weeks most babies have learned to go to sleep in the crib with no "props". (This is for children 4-5 months old; a lot shorter for older children. Our soon took 3 days as did the daughter of a friend of ours.) In this approach, your child may cry while you pat and shush -- but the difference is that you stay there and build trust with them, minimizing the feeling of being abandoned.

Note: The point isn't to stay in the room until your child is asleep, but to stay until he is calm and feeling secure and can fall asleep on your own. I remember one night when we were in this process I said to my friend that it wasn't working and I kept having to stay in the room. I was near tears. She asked me to describe what he was like and I said he was quiet and happy and babbling but not asleep. Her immediate response was, "So why are you in the room? Get out. He doesn't need you there anymore." Sure enough, his routine from that point forward was that he talked for about 15 minutes before falling asleep. The point is that he is secure, comfortable, and happy and able to put himself to sleep. Once he seems secure, comfortable, and happy you can slowly leave the room (don't sneak away -- he needs to know you're going so he doesn't feel tricked).

Because you have another child to care for, my advice is to plan for some way for him to be cared for. You really have to commit to this approach and be prepared for a few days of devoting yourself to teaching your younger child how to fall asleep. We planned to use this approach and waited a couple of weeks until we did it so that our schedules were clear and we knew that we could be 100% consistent for five days (it only took three). I think if you at least set aside three days, even if you aren't to the point of being able to put your son down and immediately leave you'll probably be to where you only need to stay for a short time so then it will be manageable on your own. I know my friend who taught us this approach did it over a three-day weekend because her husband would be home for the three days and able to help. So if your husband can take a day off, plan it for then.

Whatever you do, the key is to be consistent. Once we consistently did (as in NEVER deviated from) Tracey Hogg’s approach, it only took 3 days until we could do our routine, lay our son in bed, and walk out of the room. He would then talk himself to sleep.

You WILL get through this!! And when it gets too bad, do what I did before we got this worked out: when I was driving I would look at the drivers around me at the stoplights and remind myself that they were all babies once and they all survived to adulthood -- and some of them probably didn't sleep well when they were babies.

[shelbydog]

So sorry you are going through this. Here's my honest opinion. Your baby needs to learn to go to sleep on his own. We used Ferber with both of our children, and it worked with both. It is NOT cry it out. Your baby knows you are there, but he learns to eventually sleep on his own. It basically works like this.

Put him in his crib using the SAME routine each time, whether it is reading a book, bottle, whatever you do. Pat him, say good night and leave. Set your timer to 5 minutes. He will of course be screaming and crying. After 5 minutes, you QUIETLY go back in (use a hall light or nightlight in the hall - do not turn on his light). Pat him lightly on the chest, tell him the same thing each time, "It's time to go to sleep - Mommy will see you in the morning." and quietly leave. He will still be screaming (!). Set your timer for 10 minutes. Wait 10 minutes and do the SAME thing....leave, set timer for 15 minutes, go back in and do the same thing. Keep increasing the time by 5 minutes. The premise is he will eventually learn that all of his crying and screaming only gets him a moment of your time, yet he knows you are near as you DO always come back. We have never gone past the 30 or 35 minute mark on the first night of trying. 2nd night it took maybe 15 minutes, and 3rd night our kids were going to sleep on their own. So yes, the first or 2nd night, he may be crying for 30 minutes straight before you go back in, or even longer.....but just keep increasing the time by 5 minutes. Do the SAME thing for naps.

I am telling you, it worked miracles for us and we used it even later and when our kids were a bit older, if they were recently ill and had to sleep in our room, or after vacations, going back to the crib.

Ferber is all I can say or you may be rocking him for years, seriously. Also use this if he wakes up in the night....you and hubby need to be on the same page. The first night may be hard, but it will get better. He needs to learn to sleep on his own, and you'll thank yourself 10-fold if you can help him do that. Good luck!

[kathleenmarie]

I have cried many a night from my little angel having a bad sleep week. He usually is a great sleeper, but there are the occasional weeks he just screams and I just cry. He will quiet when I walk in, and scream when I walk out. This is what we did,(do): Make sure there is no medical issues including teething. Make sure he is getting enough sleep during the day and he is going to bed when he is tired. When my son is tired it is harder for him to get to sleep. set a nice routine up. bath, brush teeth, read a book, and go to sleep. try putting him to bed earlier as strange as that sounds. don't pick him up. go in every 10 to 20 minutes till he tuckers himself out. It lasted a week for us both times it happened. Hang in there you are a GREAT mother. This is just something they do. It sucks big time, it brings up LOTS of different emotions. It will pass. {{{{{{HUGS**********

Shelbydog: DITTO!!

[jerseytoo]

Lots of good advice here already. I used the Ferber method and I wont try to explain it because I think the most important part of his book is overlooked. It is not simply a CIO program. It is about giving a child the tools needed to fall asleep on his/her own. It does involve allowing a child to cry but with reassurance from you. He discusses how sleep habits are formed and how they can affect a child's sleep. Like in all cases, each child is different. Ferber has seen me through the biggest problem...similar to yours, as well as some smaller issues that popped up.