[MiniSnowta]

Hi all~
As I posted the other day, our adoption atty cannot find our future daughters birth mother. What happens in the case that they cannot find her and this turns into an abandonment????

Anyone else had this issue? What does this mean for timeframes and additional costs and anything else that I need to know.

Any help is greatly appeciated

[sricart]

First, let me tell you how sorry I am that the processing of your case has taken this turn. Definitely check everything I'm about to tell you with your attorney.

But, from what I know and am experiencing, it means that you'll have to go under the new Guatemalan law, unfortunately, if you need an abandonment process now. If the abandonment process is "clean", meaning that there are no relatives who will be claiming the child, then there are two hearings - an opening one and a closing one - and the time between hearings is at least 2+ months. Then you get a Certificate of Abandonment issued. There may be a 3 month waiting period then where the child must be made available for domestic, Guatemalan adoption, but that's not certain at this point. For this reason and other reasons, you need to establish a link under the new CNA with your child to guarantee that your adoption can go forward with your child under the new law. Currently it is considered a new adoption and your old link is null and void, unfortunately. That's why I've been posting here about the Guatadopt.com Abandonment Case Registration database. We're trying to get procedures in place to link the kids to the families to continue the adoptions under the new law and gain recognition for this group of children and families who are in this unusual and unprecedented position in the processing of our cases. To get the recommendations for CNA and establish the link, you probably need to have interviews done by PGN (and probably do some with CNA too) and want to try to get recommendations (for you to adopt your child) from both PGN and from the Minor's Court judge who handles your abandonment case.

So far, the US Embassy reports that the CNA is receptive to the idea of continuing adoptions under the new law where children and adoptive parents have an established bond.

No firm news yet about the dossier prep (any differences from the old notorial system). Sounds like the requirements will be pretty similar with a few new twists, but nothing definite has been released (to my knowledge).

Are having issues with the US I-600A/I-171H approvals and are trying to work that out with US and Guatemala. Anyone who submitted their I-600A before 4/1/08 *should* be grandfathered under old US law. Should go new law Guatemala and old law US. However, the US is hedging that the Guatemalan authorities want the prospective parents to submit an I-800A, which would mean probably 4+months more processing (our attorney was guessing more than 6 months, actually) and probably $1500 more in form fees and homestudy update costs. Plus, the US is not issuing any I-800s at this point. We were told by our homestudy agency that the US is also not accepting I-800As either, which makes going this route even tougher. Would need the US to reopen first to Guatemala before this new US law process could even be followed. We are trying to push to make sure that the US will work with the Guatemalan authorities to ensure that our grandfathered, old law approvals are accepted. Again, a reason to make sure that everyone who is probably becoming an abandonment fills out the Guatadopt.com registration. We need to know how many families are affected and give ourselves a voice. (Don't mean to sound like a broken record, but our path is already going to be long and hard, so we're trying to get the things that should be working for us (like our grandfathered status under the old US law) to really work as they are supposed to.)

I hope that what I said above makes sense. I'm sorry it's not better news. But, I know at least 5 other families in the same situation. We can and will all help one another through this, and our kids are so worth the struggle. We must get them home! Feel free to PM or post again if you'd like more info. I'm glad to help in any way that I can. Once again, sorry for this turn in your case... Take care, Sharon

[praying4rlittl1]

We too are an abandonment (from way back) and are in a holding pattern. Our abandonment took 2 years to complete. Please, please feel free to PM me with any questions. I know you are probably scared out of your mind, but there is still a glimmer of hope.

[MiniSnowta]

Thanks for your replies! Sharon are you saying that we may have to do a new dossier for the case if it turns into abandonment? I think I may pass out....also, I am not sure I understand about the I-800...does that mean that the US will not recognize our adoption if it falls under an abandonment because it would have to fall under the new law? I thank you so much for taking the time to write me. I just want to make sure I am grasping everything.

Dawn~
I cannot believe all you have been through and the length of time....I cannot imagine. How do you do it?? I am really concerned about how this will effect the financial aspects of the adoption, would you be willing to PM me anything you are willing to share?

Thanks again you guys
Min

[sricart]

Hi Min - You may have to do some new dossier paperwork, depending on the expiration of notary stamps, the new law dossier requirements, etc... Hopefully the new law requirements will closely mirror the old law requirements and your notary stamps have plenty of time on them.

Also, if the US doesn't stand up for our I-600A approvals so we can go old law US and new law Guatemala, then we may need to have a homestudy completed by one of the accredited agencies and using Hague standards. To see if yours is on the list, look here:

Accredited, Temporarily Accredited, and Approved Hague Adoption Service Providers

Our homestudy agency is on the list and has been doing homestudies using Hague standards for a while now, so we're fortunately in the clear on that one.

Again, a group of us in this situation are trying to have US Embassy (USE) and Dept of State (DOS) help us to facilitate the Guatemalan authorities acceptance of our I-600A grandfathered approvals, so this (I-800A and I-800 and homestudies done by Hague approved agencies using Hague standards) hopefully won't become an issue.

It is unclear if the US will even accept an I-800A for Guatemala right now. (The I-800A is the I-600A counterpart under the new Hague law in US.) Last thing we heard from US Embassy (which is counter to what my homestudy agency told me a few days prior, but hopefully USE is correct), you could submit an I-800A, but until the US reopens to Guatemala (approves Guatemala's steps toward becoming more Hague compliant - hopefully by the end of this year, but we'll have to wait and see - who really knows...), you cannot get an I-800 processed for Guatemala. Which means that you cannot get your visa to bring your child home until the US reopens to Guatemala under the new US law.

Again, this is why we are trying to gather folks together who are abandonments via the Guatadopt.com Abandonment Registration and push to gain a voice for these cases, families, and children. We are grandfathered under the US old law and therefore should be able to process under old US law. Then none of the Hague stuff above would be necessary. It's only if our old US law grandfathering is ignored that any of the Hague stuff becomes an issue. We are fighting to be able to keep the grandfathering under old US law that is rightfully ours. Make sense?

Again, review everything with your attorney, because it's possible that there are individual case differences. However, that is my understanding of the situation for any of us who have abandonments that were not completed with a Certificate of Abandonment issued by 12/31/07.

Hope that helps. Let me know if you have further questions. Glad to help in any way possible. I'll keep you posted on anything new that we learn.

Take care, Sharon

PS - And, again (broken record), I urge anyone who is in this situation (abandonment with no Certificate of Abandonment issued by 12/31/07 or very likely to become abandonment) to register at Guatadopt.com.

[sricart]

Min - Here's the link to the DOS webpage that discusses the problems with processing I-800 applications.

Warning: Adoptions Initiated in Guatemala on or after April 1, 2008

Copied in text below. The page discusses cases going old law US and old law Guatemala AND new law US and new law Guatemala. However, nothing is stated on this page about our situations - old law US and new law Guatemala. There's the rub... Need to solidify our standing under old US law with grandfathering while going under new Guatemalan law.

Will post one more section from DOS website in a subsequent post and then am going to get some sleep!

-Sharon

Warning: Adoptions Initiated in Guatemala on or after April 1, 2008




April 1, 2008


The Department of State advises potential adoptive parents and adoption service providers not to initiate new adoptions from Guatemala because the Department cannot process such adoptions from Guatemala to completion at this time.

The Hague Convention on Protection of Children and Co-operation in Respect of Intercountry Adoption (the Convention) entered into force with respect to the United States on April 1, 2008. Effective April 1, 2008, newly initiated intercountry adoptions between the United States and other Convention countries must comply with the Convention’s standards.

Guatemala acceded to the Hague Intercountry Adoption Convention in March 2003. Guatemala, however, has not yet established the regulations and infrastructure necessary to meet its obligations under the Convention. As a result, the Department of State cannot issue the documentation required by the Intercountry Adoption Act (IAA) for issuance of an immigrant visa for Convention adoption cases.

The Department has advised USCIS of its finding, and has been informed that, until further notice, USCIS will not approve a Form I-800, Petition to Classify Convention Adoptee as an Immediate Relative, filed for an adoption from Guatemala.

The Department will continue to monitor the adoption practices of Guatemala. We cannot predict whether or when we will be able to start processing new adoptions from Guatemala. We will update this web page regularly with any new information.

With regard to currently pending adoptions (those initiated in Guatemala before 12/31/2007), the U.S. Embassy in Guatemala remains committed to processing adoptions under previous rules. The Embassy is working closely with the government of Guatemala to complete those cases as soon as possible.

[sricart]

Here's the very important statement that should guarantee our grandfathering under old law:

FAQs: Transition Cases and the Hague Adoption Convention

Note that I got to this from the Guatemala specific section of the DOS website on intercountry adoption, so there should not be any confusion about the validity of these statements (although somehow there seems to be... Again, trying to fight and solidify our grandfathering under old US law).

Also note that it is critical that you maintain your I-600A approval (I-171H) and do not let it (or your fingerprint approvals) lapse or expire. If it does expire without a renewal by the expiration date, then you will have to go new law US and will lose any grandfathering. Make sense? Good night! -Sharon

Text copied in:

9. What happens if an I-600A was filed before the date the Hague Adoptin Convention enters into force with respect to the United States, but the child was not adopted before the Convention enters into force with respect to the United States?

As noted above, if the prospective adoptive parent(s) files the I-600A (Application for Advance Processing of an Orphan Petition) before the date the Hague Adoption Convention enters into force with respect to the United States, then the Convention and the IAA will not apply to that case, provided that the relevant I-600A remains valid (see question 16, below, for details). For example, if the prospective adoptive parent files an I-600A on February 1, 2008, and the Convention enters into effect for the U.S. on February 2, 2008, the case is not a Convention case. If the I-600A expires after the Convention enters into force with respect to the United States, but before the parent files the I-600 petition, the case becomes a Convention case and the prospective adoptive parent must begin the process over again using the appropriate Convention case forms.