[ej-momtobe]

I noticed on another thread that several people posted that they were 99% sure that fraud was not involved in their adoption. I am really curious how you know that. Other than acutally meeting the bmom, and establishing a relationship where she would feel comfortable telling you how things happened, how could you be that sure? Is it faith? (in God, agency, or attorney)? Is it that you met the attorney and he/she seemed trustworthy? Is it that you would expect to see evidicence of inconsistencies/fraud somewhere in your paperwork and info from attorney if fraud was involved?

I don't believe that there was any fraud involved in DS's adoption, but every time I read another article about fraud/corruption, I wonder...could this have happened in our case?

How do others know with 99% certainty that there was no fraud?

[beverlyanderic]

i don't think you can ever be 100% sure. that goes for any adoption international or domestic.

friends/family have questioned the legitimacy of my son's adoption and all i can say if what we were told. also, i say, regardless of how something happened, i'm just glad he is part of our family and in our lives.

we read the family court report but you also don't know how much accuracy it includes.

[Saya]

This is a very interesting question. Can I be 99% sure that my child wasn't kidnapped, like with some of the horrible stories you hear in the news? Yes, I feel that between the successful DNA testing and the fact that I've gotten photos since she was one week old that are clearly the same child - along with a strong relationship with her foster family that took her home from the hospital after she was born and have met her birthmother - I can be confident it is not one of those worst-case scenerio cases. But do I know for sure that her b-mom wasn't pressured? Or that she wasn't given money? Or that she was definitely single? No, I don't know any of that at this point. I hope to be able to find out the answers to these questions - whatever the truth is, I want Anabel to be able to know it when she's older.

[JanelleD]

For both of our referrals (we lost the first one) we met the birth mom. We spent some time talking to her. We asked her any questions she had and she did the same.

Our agency also waited for birth moms to contact them. So, our wait for a referral was longer because of this.

I'm thankful we know without a shadow of doubt that everything was done legally, but I'm sure there will be some people who look at us who don't know us and they might question it, based on everything they've heard.

[hol332]

I think there are varying degrees of "fraud." There could be horrible fraud in which a birthmother was coerced into giving up the baby. Or, there could be fairly benign fraud in which extra money was paid to PGN to facilitate a faster oout. Let's face it, we can see from people's PGN timelines that the latter happens sometimes.

I brought my Guatemalan beauty home at 7.5 months. We were in PGN for 2 months exactly. We never had any inkling of any fraudulent activity. But, when we picked up our daughter, we had an embassy appointment on the same day as another lady who had the same attorney as us. Her daughter was 10 months old. Later in the day, we found out (quite by accident) that her baby was in the same foster mother home as my baby. What are the odds that 2 babies born at different times but with the same attorney and foster mother would have the same embassy appt date. Was fraud a factor. Seems like it could have been. But, really horrible, criminal fraud - probably not. But . . . . how would we ever know?

[maccafan]

I agree that we can't be totally sure there was no fraud or coercion involved. I do get peace of mind from what our FM (whom we totally love and trust) told us, which is that when she met DS's birthmom at the DNA appt, she said she was so happy that DS found such a good home. She and the birthmom talked a bit, and she (our FM) is confident that the birthmom made an adoption plan willingly, because she thought it was the best thing for everyone due to her particular situation. I hope and pray I will one day get to meet DS's birthmom, so I will know for sure.

[SKL]

In my case it is a combination of many facts and circumstances.

I feel that unless there is something nagging at a parent as "not right," it is not helpful to keep suggesting that a completed adoption might not have been valid. Like everything else in life, we need closure. The most important thing for our children is to be raised in as normal and secure a family situation as possible.

It's kinda like if I asked, given that you are not 100% sure that you are not going to die in a car crash tomorrow or we are not going to be bombed by terrorists or destroyed in an earthquake, how can you go about your merry way and reassure your kids that they should have sweet dreams because tomorrow will be a new day?

When my adoption was in process, I had all those concerns and I'm glad that motivated me to be careful in certain decisions I made, including my unwillingness to even pray that the birth moms signed off. But now that it's final, and every piece of info I have indicates it was legitimate, it's time for me and my girls to close that book and focus on our future. I know my girls could ask about it someday and I'm prepared with answers. If those answers are not enough, it's up to them to decide what will satisfy them, because personally I am already satisfied. Sometimes we have to be willing to accept less than 100% certainty.

[tootsi20023]

I thought for certain my daughter's adoption was ethical but after hiring a searcher we discovered A LOT of inconsistencies, made up names/addresses, etc., payment to the birth mom and much, much more that I am not comfortable with discussing on a public forum. I don't know that anyone can be sure unless contact is made.

It's all sickening!

[Devora]

factors that make me confident in the ethics and legality of our child's adoption:

- we are in contact with his mother
- the fact that contact between families is common for the agency we worked with
- foster mother's contact with his mother
- attorney's role in facilitating ongoing contact between first/birth and adoptive families

- attorney does not use "finders" or other middlemen, and does not advertise for adoption services in Guatemala -- parents who are relinquishing their children come to her by word-of-mouth, usually referred by other parents who have worked with her
- consistency in paperwork
- attorney's involvement in the paperwork versus other staff or middlemen
- adoption is a small part of the attorney's practice (she mostly does corporate and other civil law; this indicates to me that she has little to gain through fraud or coercive practices compared with someone whose own income is based mostly on adoption work)
- attorney's account of her interactions with mother and detailed knowledge of mother's situation (not generic information that could apply to many women, but very specific)

- agency is upfront about % of parents who change their minds after a referral is made
- agency is upfront about how that situation is handled (child is immediately returned, parents are provided for immediate needs to care for child, parents are connected with other aid for ongoing assistance)
- agency has a number of programs that work to keep families together so that adoption is a last resort
- interactions other adoptive families have had with the attorney that corroborate all of the above

For me, the emphasis on contact between families is a key factor. This doesn't happen for everyone, but it is a common occurrence with the agency & attorney. Would someone really do that if they had anything to hide?

Also, not using "finders" or other middlemen is also critical to me because that eliminates one more level of possible fraud or coercion.

[SKL]

It seems to me that if I could only feel comfortable after meeting the birth mom, I would have insisted on meeting her before the adoption was final, so there would be a chance to fix things if the birth mother was not OK with the adoption. Of course, this would mean I should have been prepared to give up on the adoption at that point. I am not sure how many of us would have that much courage. A meeting after the adoption is over may provide peace of mind if it goes the right way, but it seems to me that would be the only benefit of it from the point of view of AP guilt.

The biggest reason I did not ask to meet the birth mothers during process (which was not normally done in my agency's cases) was that I felt it would be very hard on them for a variety of reasons. And also, given that I'd need an interpreter, they would not necessarily speak from their hearts anyway. So I rely on other facts and circumstances to give me comfort that I did the right thing by adopting my girls.

[dance_muffin]

I can honestly say that I have no qualms about our adoption being totally legit. Trust my agency, trust my lawyers in GC (who are now our friends). Also my birthmom was literate. She was able to sign off on documents that she read and understood. Consistency of all paperwork.

I am very close with my fm/ff; if there were any issues; I would have known about them. They have met her several times.

I am planning on searching for dd's birthmom by next year. I hope to extend an offer of communication and meet her when we go back to Guatemala.

[mksilvermoon]

i made contact with my daughter's firstmum - really the best way in my opinion - i treasure this connection for my daughter - we are all her family, I am just lucky enough to be the one who gets to raise her on a daily basis

no-one ever asks a mother if she could possibly love more than one child - so why can't a child love more than one family/set of parents??

mk

[Quesita]

I was very proactive before even starting the adoption. When I was researching agencies, I asked over and over if birthmoms ever changed their minds, and did not consider working with an agency that said no. I looked for an agency with a long history, a strong track record, and a history of doing humanitarian work and advocacy work in addition to doing adoptions. I stated that I wanted a referral of a child whose birthmom would be interested in maintaining contact with me. When I had gotten it down to two agencies, I picked the one that seemed to know the most about Guatemala.

In Guatemala I spoke with the foster family, who know the birthmom, and were quite candid about her. Their stories were similar to the situation the lawyer described, and the documents that I got from the social worker report. But their stories were much more detailed, and clearly influenced by the foster family's opinions.

I have not yet met Liana's birthmom. But I will. I considered meeting her while I was fostering, against the advice of my attorney, but I admit I was nervous. After the paperwork was done, I had planned on contacting her, but I admit it was a very emotional time, and I lost my nerve. I could not believe that Liana was really mine, and I was just afraid. But I know that Liana and I will travel to Guatemala, and that we will meet her, and visit Liana's wonderful foster family, and meet Liana's Guatemalan siblings.

Right now I am 99% sure. When I meet Liana's birthfamily, I will be 100%.

[Mindybeth6]

I 100% trust my attorney and what she and the other contacts in Guatemala told us. We know some personal information that makes me confidenent. We had an easy, clean case...but didn't have a "crazy" OUT of PGN in 2 weeks. It just all progressed normally. Our birthmother was very young, however, she was literate and signed off on all documents herself. We have been able to send letters and pictures to her birthmother a few times since Mikayla came home. Our paperwork is very consistent...I just don't think there was anything corrupt about our adoption. I feel very confident that it was well done.

[akasohappy]

I had the Dept. of Homeland Security interview me at the Marriott (on pick up trip).
They took 3 weeks to conduct the investigation.
They were in the process of building a case against our facilitator.
They never "told" me what they found out, but I was granted a pink appt. and a visa for Kate so I feel confident that they didn't find anything illegal.
Those were some of the scariest times in my life - taking care of my daughter in a hotel room in a foreign country not knowing when the investigation would be concluded or what the outcome would be.
Also, our foster mom knows our birthfamily and knew them before Kate came into her care.
I can't be 100% sure that nothing illegal went on, but due to the investigation I feel pretty confident.
I also think of that investigation as a blessing in disguise. I didn't know it then though.
Considering our agency and facilitator and the problems with them I would be a nervous wreck now if it had not been for that investigation.