[cjrogers]

Michelle Smiles - This is exactly what I thought. I don't see it having an impact, but I do feel for this person. She is obviously very desperate to get her child home and is putting her life on the line. Not the way, I'd handle it, but respectable on some level.

[JustBarbara]

First of all - I don't think any thread can ever go in the 'wrong' direction on this forum - sure people can be banned, be for or against an action but we are all free to express ourselves.

Jim, Brinalilah and many of the other posts - you have stated very eloquently something that is very emotional to, I would warrant, 99% of us who have or are in process of adopting from Guatemala. Never mind the Guat press and the potential threat for all others in process, I am not ripping this woman and I have reread all the other posts and I cannot find anyone ripping this woman. What is going to happen when and if the US media decide to do a follow-up story? Does anyone really think the media will be on the side of a US citizen protesting the Guatemalan govt/PGN? Nope - they will be airing pieces of the Guatemalan protestors and their sad stories - and then one of this U.S. citizen and the theme will be 'Americans taking our babies any way possible' the press in both countries will eat this up and we'll see many comments disparaging international adoption (yet again). I can't seem to find the big list and her posting. As others have said we simply cannot stomp our feet and demand ANYTHING - what we can do is get the people who we have voted in and those who work for the US Government and by extension, US to help out. Does this lady have an atty? an agency? Did she try and do this adoption solo in the hopes of a speedy process, is her agency flipping out because they have other PAPs in process - I really know nothing of her story but I, as a former member of the press, can easily see how this could be shown/written. Write your US representatives, call them - go to Washington and start your hunger strike there. But still, it is not a U.S. govt decision as to the speed or lack thereof of completing the adoptions in process. I still see oranges and pinks so slowly (too slowly I know) these children are coming to their forever families.

[dana3262]

I totally agree - i would so rather deal with no knowledge of the individual child and when they are ready to give me the child, then send me photos, etc. This method is too full of heartache....

[stephjoel99]

Originally Posted by jimanddarla

Patty,

First of all, there ARE people fighting for us on this. Our attorneys, the ADA, JCICS, agencies, etc... All I ask is that this woman and others give them a chance. It takes time. There are going to be delays. Period.

Jim

Jim, the ADA is helping her put this together. They cannot file an amparo.

[grumpyskirtgirl]

oh, this is so not a good idea. I just saw this and I about fainted. I didn't even read any of the previous posts (which might come back to bite me). Civil disobediance on US soil is one thing, on Guat soil????? No way! I can only see things ending badly and jeopardizing possibly all of the grandfathered cases! It could also very possibly land you in jail. And being in jail....in Guatemala is not going to help you, or your child! Not good, not good, not good!!!

[guatparents2be]

NO! Hope I don't get flamed, but this is an awful idea.

Another showing that "we" feel entitled to these children. As I have posted before, during, and after Julian came home, we are prospective adoptive parents...we may love these children as IF they are our own. They are not our own.

The way that PGN is going about this may be backwards and horrible for those of us waiting to adopt, but they are trying to make a change here. In they end they are trying to protect children and mothers from being exploited. And hopefully in the end they will come up with a process that keeps the system transparent and allows children who are actually without families to raise them to find their forever homes.

[stephjoel99]

The problem with ALL of this is - the cases that were GRANDFATHERED were done so under the old system, crappy as it was.

NONE of this is legal - or fair. And there are worse rumors floating around about PGN's intentions with some of these "investigations". The ADA has literally in their words "nothing left up their sleeves" - hogars are being investigated (what one ADA attorney called a "pre-raid" tour).

Our government has dropped the ball and doesn't understand or care and this woman who is doing this has EVERY right to do it. You don't have to like it, but she has been the "mother" to one of her boys for over 2 years now. He calls her "mommy" - he doesn't understand why she can't take him home after her visit trips every 6 weeks. He lives in an orphanage with pictures of his "mommy" on the wall - and he has a health condition that will literally KILL him if he doesn't get to the US for proper treatment.

No, if Jane wants to sit in front of PGN and do a hunger strike, I do not blame her, I SALUTE her as a mother - I would do the same thing if it was my son.

[brinalilah]

You make some very valid points about her situation some of which I share, two years in process, baby in hogar who calls me mama, the heartbreak of handing him back 5 times etc. I am sure our stories are replicated over and over to varying degrees with every PAP. In my heart and soul he is my son ( as is my daughter who is quite young) no matter what, the problem is that legally s/he is not, not to the American government, not to Guatemala.

As I have said I admire the mother lion in her, I admire that she wants to make a difference in a system that at the moment lack transparency and seems to have a hidden agenda.

If she feels so desperate (and I can't judge that) and is at the point where this is her only choice, then so be it as long as she recognises the consequences for herself and her child, the good and the perhaps horrendous. It is then her choice.

I have been thinking and thinking on this issue. Rather than work from the outside into PGN I was thinking if there was a way to work from the inside out.

I have wondered if we can somehow rally and petition PGN to meet with a delegation of PAP's. I don't think any of us wants to adopt a child taken through coercion or kidnapping, I guess most of us would be supportive of an audit. The issue has been the haphazard way it appears to have been conducted, to much heresay from all over the place, attorneys media, raids on Hogars etc. Maybe if we could start working with PGN rather than against them we could accomplish more. We would no longer be faceless, rich, demanding Americans but concerned, loving, grateful PAP's. Call me naive if you will but is it that outta left field to try?

[EZ2Luv]

While it is very sad that this boy considers this woman his mommy and he sees herself as his mommy the reality is that legally she is not his mommy. In her heart yes, but legally on paper No. We all know how heartless these people in authority seem top be. I keep having visions of the raid at CQ with those terrified babies out in the rain. Do you actually think that these people are going to be compassionate enough to reason with? Maybe in the US we can find a judge or person in authority that is sympathetic and has a heart to do the right thing, but historically given what has transpired with these adoptions, I would be hard pressed to believe that this womans hearbreak is really going to have an impact.

There are so many people waiting for their babies with broken hearts that Im sure cry rivers daily waiting, the agencies know it, lawyers and facillitators know it and I am sure PGN is aware of it, but they seem unphased by any of this. They are beyond reason.
I just hope and pray that if this woman does follwo through on her plan that she doesn't bring negative consequenses be it through the media, an arrent and jail, retaliation from PGN and a general attitude of "how dare a foriegner come her and demand one of our children and behave in such a way".

No one is ripping this lady apart at all. Everyone is just trying to point out that what is legal and is within our rights in a US democracy, doesn't apply to the laws in Guatemala that are suseptable to change.

I understand her desperation and determination, she is not alone in that and as illegal as it is with what is happening with these grandfathered cases, PGN is still calling the shots, why? because they can.

Ez

[EZ2Luv]

Can someone PM me the story please.

Thanks
EZ

[lou0728]

This is a very difficult situation for all of us. I have met Jane, and she is a wonderful loving mother. She is no different from the rest of us, but she has truly been through heck in her processes. If you ever had a conversation with her you would probably go with her to PGN. We all need to stand up for our children in a way that we are comfortable. If Jane feels this is the right thing to do then I support her. Can I commit to a hunger strike? No, I can't, but I can pray for her and support her in her fight to bring her children home. Would I march in front of our DOS or somewhere on US soil? You betcha.

[stephjoel99]

EZ, I get what you're saying - but she's not doing this in a vacuum. She is doing this with the support of the ADA - who says there are sinister plots afoot at the PGN.

Whether they are true or not, I don't know. But this woman who will go to her grave believing herself to be this boy's mother (and the other little boy she's adopting) feels like she has no other choice. And her case is an ABANDONMENT. No birthmother interview. She is against a wall - and her "supporters" I would hope are going to arrange to protect her in some way. I do not think she would do this on her own without knowing there was a posse in the wings.

[Destiny080707]

Not leagally ours, well try telling my heart that, this woman is doing something which I SO admire!! Is it something I would do, No, because I do not feel it is safe, but I am speaking out and triyng to do something to bring my daughter, YES MY DAUGHTER home.
We need to support her, she is doing what she feels she can do to bring her child home as a mother. SHe feels alone, abandened be her government and now by some of us who are all going through this horrible time together.
Lets just support her, we dont have to agree but we ALL feel alone and neglected by people who should be standing up for us.

PLEASE lets join together and support one another!

[connorsmommy1999]

can someone PM me the link to the original post about this? I have no clue what the "big list" is

[avoel]

There is no link to PM...you would have to join the Big List to find it (instructions can be found at guatadopt). But, just FYI, there is no discussion of this on there as the original post violated list rules.