Hunger strike in front of PGN - Page 2

robandjulie · #16 05-21-2008, 08:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JosieWales

I completely agree. Many, many other countries do it this way, isn't that correct?

Sorry to continue the OT: My understanding is that this is how Ethiopia and China both work. Basically both sides are approved (PAPs and Child) separately and then are matched at the end, leaving only 6-8 weeks of court proceedings and such before travel and pickup. You wait a lot longer for the referral as you are being approved, but once you're matched it's more predictable. I would MUCH prefer this. One of my biggest frustrations with our process right now is that Jorge was 7 months old at referral, which was our choice, but that all that time was "lost" when, in reality, a better process would have been clearing him through the system in the mean time. A DNA test could have been done, the SW part could have been done, etc. and by the time we took his referral his status as an eligible orphan to the US (PA) and his status as an eligible child for IA (Family Court) could have both been confirmed, leaving only a final check from Guate that our family is ok by them and then we'd be done. Instead we started from scratch at 7 months and here we are, closing in on 16 months old, and still kicking around in PGN which would have been more of a "starting point" if they'd been able to approve him separately.

I realize that would be expensive and time consuming--clearing children for IA when they may end up matched with a domestic adoption or not adopted at all, but the gains to the children for a faster process would be wonderful. I realize, also, it wouldn't do anything for the timelines of those that WERE referred as newborns, but it might ease the stress on PAPs, too, to not be riding the roller coaster that whole time.

To the original post; I agree the hunger strike is a dangerous and ill-advised idea. Now...a hunger strike here in front of the DOS until they put some pressure on Guate might be a little more sensible, but even then I kind of agree that the US should respect Guatemala's right to check these children's backgrounds. I wouldn't support it, but I wouldn't be as worried about it, either.

giovanni7460 · #17 05-21-2008, 08:39 AM

I believe this post is really going in the wrong direction. I dont judge anyone. Although some of you have judged my last post and the woman who started the hunger strike question. Here is what I believe. Nothing in this world has ever gotten done without some sort of fight. No I dont mean an actually fight for those who will judge that. Look throughout history. Abortion, religion, we fight for our rights. No matter what way you believe. Do any of you really believe that anyone who works in PGN gives a ****? I dont think they do. Does this woman think she can make a difference. I think she does. So why rip her to pieces? She is a grown woman with choices and this is her choice. You think PGN with keep the children longer because of it? Come on this is a group of people who keep your kids cause you didnt put every version of your name that mankind can think of.
Maybe she should go to the American Embassy here. Maybe we should help her think of ways to give her support. Who hasnt been there grabbing at straws?
Patty

Devora · #18 05-21-2008, 08:40 AM

Quote:

Quote:
Originally Posted by dmg0703
JMHO - I really hope that Guatemala modifies their adoption laws to become more centralized and streamlined. I may get flamed for this, but my opinion is that these children should be referred at the end of the process, once the gov't (or whoever else) ENSURES that these available children were rightfully relinquished or abandoned.

I completely agree. Many, many other countries do it this way, isn't that correct?

Yes. That doesn't mean that there isn't sometimes a substantial wait from referral to bringing your child home, but for example in Korea the relinquishment process is finalized before the referral is made. The adoption process still has to take place, but at the time of referral the relinquishing parent's parental rights have already been dissolved. In some countries the wait from referral to travel is very short precisely because the relinquishment and abandonment processes are already finished. In some cases you only have a few weeks between referral and travel.

newnan · #19 05-21-2008, 08:43 AM

I don't think this is a good idea at all!!!!!

akasohappy · #20 05-21-2008, 08:45 AM

I hope someone advises her that this could jeopardize her case.

JosieWales · #21 05-21-2008, 08:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by giovanni7460

I believe this post is really going in the wrong direction. I dont judge anyone. Although some of you have judged my last post and the woman who started the hunger strike question. Here is what I believe. Nothing in this world has ever gotten done without some sort of fight. No I dont mean an actually fight for those who will judge that. Look throughout history. Abortion, religion, we fight for our rights. No matter what way you believe. Do any of you really believe that anyone who works in PGN gives a ****? I dont think they do. Does this woman think she can make a difference. I think she does. So why rip her to pieces? She is a grown woman with choices and this is her choice. You think PGN with keep the children longer because of it? Come on this is a group of people who keep your kids cause you didnt put every version of your name that mankind can think of.
Maybe she should go to the American Embassy here. Maybe we should help her think of ways to give her support. Who hasnt been there grabbing at straws?
Patty

I am not flaming her or ripping her to pieces. I can't say I would do what she is doing, but I'm not holding it against her or anything. I hope she DOES make a difference!!

jimanddarla · #22 05-21-2008, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by giovanni7460

I believe this post is really going in the wrong direction. I dont judge anyone. Although some of you have judged my last post and the woman who started the hunger strike question. Here is what I believe. Nothing in this world has ever gotten done without some sort of fight. No I dont mean an actually fight for those who will judge that. Look throughout history. Abortion, religion, we fight for our rights. No matter what way you believe. Do any of you really believe that anyone who works in PGN gives a ****? I dont think they do. Does this woman think she can make a difference. I think she does. So why rip her to pieces? She is a grown woman with choices and this is her choice. You think PGN with keep the children longer because of it? Come on this is a group of people who keep your kids cause you didnt put every version of your name that mankind can think of.
Maybe she should go to the American Embassy here. Maybe we should help her think of ways to give her support. Who hasnt been there grabbing at straws?
Patty

Patty,

First of all, there ARE people fighting for us on this. Our attorneys, the ADA, JCICS, agencies, etc... All I ask is that this woman and others give them a chance. It takes time. There are going to be delays. Period.

Second, this lady is not just putting her adoption in jeopardy, but all of us waiting for our little ones might be affected by this. Imagine the Guatemalan press showing this "rich" American woman (women?) on the steps of PGN, thinking she is entitled to her baby. This will not cause sympathy! The story of the birth moms' hunger strike on the steps of PGN are still fresh in the minds of the people of Guatemala. I cannot see how this action would not cause outrage!! Imagine if there was an uproar and the public DEMANDED that pending cases be stopped. Then PGN and the CNA would be under pressure to investigate cases even more. Maybe they would demand interviews with the PAPs. Maybe they would shut down these pending adoptions altogether! This delay is quite long enough for me thank you. I don't need some whole-hearted but half-brained idea from a waiting PAP to ruin it for the rest of us!

We all entered into this process with the understanding that we have to trust people who we've never met and will never meet. Most of us knew that there was a risk to adopting from Guatemala when we accepted our referrals. We saw what risk there is in December and January and we are seeing it again. I know it's been said over and over, but we just need to continue to be patient. Please.

Jim

newnan · #23 05-21-2008, 10:52 AM

Jim..I totally agree with you!!

JosieWales · #24 05-21-2008, 10:54 AM

Very good points, Jim.

Alexa07 · #25 05-21-2008, 10:57 AM

I really don't believe anyone is ripping this woman. As many have stated before, there are a lot of adoptions at stake here other than this poor lady. Everyone that has posted has stated they agree and sympathize with the intention, am I right? But to offer 'past history' as justification for this action is, I think, a bit off the mark. I would like to think that we have come a long way from having to endure some of the strategies that have achieved results in the past. We are the US of America and we are a democracy and most US citizens abide by the rules and follow protocol. However, we have undertaken an adoption with a FOREIGN country and signed on to this crazy rollercoaster. When things don't go our way or countries and systems are not governed in the way the US is, we simply cannot just go in and stamp our feet or refrain from eating or say 'we don't do it this way in the US' . Again, let us not perpetuate the 'bullish-American' stereotype that so many foreign countries have of us.

No-one is saying that this woman isn't justified in feeling what she is feeling - there are too many of us that are in the boat with her to slam her for that. But....please, let's have some respect for Guatemala. It doesn't really matter what we think of PGN or how they are conducting business of whether they care about the children. IT IS WHAT IT IS. Unfortunately. Let's fight the fight in the proper way in a land where we have the right to stand up for what we believe in - the USA.

rapf777 · #26 05-21-2008, 11:05 AM

Can someone please PM me with the big list so I can read this story...TIA

Rose

JosieWales · #27 05-21-2008, 11:10 AM

please PM it to me too

CurlysGirly · #28 05-21-2008, 11:20 AM

I don't understand what a government that often shows little regard for its own citizens would care about a non citizen protesting in such a fashion. I don't think this act is going to gain any empathy from the powers that be.

I just hope that the person planning this can see how this may impact other grandfathered cases. When it is us or our child, we can get tunnel vision and not see the big picture and the total impact.

I will continue to press our government officials on behalf of grandfathered cases and pray for a FAST resolution to all of the waiting families and children.

rapf777 · #29 05-21-2008, 11:23 AM

Or can some one please PM me the story about this woman...TIA

Rose

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