[karen nickols]

Maybe it would help to hear form some others that did make it through. I think all of us stuck in the process feel like there is no good end. Our attorney is still fighting the birthmom interviews. He had 2 yesterday that he stated did not go well--one baby went back with birthmom. I know the moms haveths right but can't help but wonder if they are being talked into it. I think he said there is another meeting at PGN today and tomorrow lawyers are meeting. Send on the chocolate.

[AdoptAmiga]

Hi Karen - I'm one, but honestly, it was nothing like what is happening now and what people are going through. There was a slowdown/stoppage for 3-6 months (my memory is fuzzy on the details), then everything started back up. My daughter came home at 9mos, while my son (non-Hague), came home at 6 months a year earlier. I wasn't on the forums back then and it probably was a good thing. Ignorance is bliss, as they say.

Sending prayers and positive vibes to all who are waiting and waiting... And yes, bring on the chocolate!

[bhouston]

I am a 03 mom....and it was totally different then because the U.S. was not involved as far as interacting the Hague Treaty here....so it was all a Guatemala issue and the attorneys worked long and hard to overturn it...now what has confused me since the beginning of this has been since it was overturned in Guatemala in 03...how now are they seen as a Hague country?
It was a gut wrenching time for sure though....and I lived on the forums and many of us suffered with stress related stuff after going thru all that...trauma...most children did not come home at 9 months but fortunately for us...our attorney had gotten the dna before that closed down so we were one of the first cases out when they opened back up.....after a 6 month shutdown...so our daughter was home at 9.5 months but most others were over a yr....it did help for those who started their adoptions later in the shutdown because the U.S. was still processing on this side...so once Guatemala opened back up...things started moving pretty well...

But...unfortunately this is a lot bigger ....I think...because of the complications of the U.S. being involved in the shut down....so now you have two c****ries...instead of just one...

Lots of chocolate for ALL!!!! I would not want to go thru this again that is for sure ....it is heartwrenching....

Beth mom to now 5 yr old *hague baby 03* Brooklyn!

[FourAndDone]

I am a survivor of the '03 shutdown. It was similar to this in that you feel like the powers to be in Guatemala are not on your side, at least that is my take, and you have no idea why they wouldn't want the children to come home to their family right now. My son finally came home at 15 months old. Here is a one you won't believe, while I was waiting out the '03 mess, I started and completed adopting my son from Russia. He came home 3 months before my son from Guatemala. I guess that would be considered making lemonade out of a lemon!

I went back in '05 and had my son home before he was 4 months old. All in all, everything eventually worked out for my family. However, I was in complete terror for all of 2003 and really feel for those now in process.

Keep the faith!

Diane
AP to 3 little boys

[tinaedmond]

We're an 03 Hague case, at least DD was, we got caught in the DNA authorization shutdown by our own Embassy, from June-October of that year. So, from my standpoint the US WAS involved, because they said Guatemala was now responsible for DNA, yet they had no process for it, and we sat in limbo for months, not able to move on to PGN....

DD was 15 months old when she finally came home, 6 weeks at referral. Thank god for the attorneys in Guatemala! They got things moving again.

DD was WORTH IT although the wait certainly took its toll. When we visited for her first birthday we didn't even have the DNA done yet and I broke down in the hotel room after giving her back, and honestly wondered if we would ever get her home.

DS came home this past August, at 9 months of age.

Believe me, I understand the heartache of the uncertainty, and all the delays. My thoughts and prayers go out to everyone waiting right now.

Tina

[bhouston]

Tina....
Your right about the US being involved in the dna issues...We were fortunate to not have to have gone thru that...because our dna was already done when that part of the process was shut down....I guess I was just referring to the part where Guatemala shut down due to the Hague stuff....my oversight on the dna issues since it didnt directly effect us....I forgot about that part....It would be so nice to see this truly get worked out and for adoptions to be able to continue with a bit less stress and for the children to truly be put first in the equation.....Beth

[VReed]

I have no idea if any of you current posters remember my daughter (carterj6) and myself (Vicki the Grammy). My daughter was caught in the '03 Hague, and I will never forget it. Referral came when Elia was 3 months, and she did not come home until she was 13 months. I do not ever remember praying so hard. When they got the final word that they were out of PGN, they ran us down at the Krystal Hamburger place, and as we were about to place our order, they told us with beaming faces that they were out!!! We all went nuts right in the front of the Krystal for about 30 minutes. It had almost become unthinkable that she would ever be home. They visited twice and even celebrated her first birthday at the orphanage, and then finally picked her up the next month. She is now a beautiful and brilliant 5 year old. Ava Grace luckily came home at 4 months old after that old Hague situation settled down. She is an amazing 3 three old now. I sympathize with so many of you on these boards who are waiting with so many unknowns out there. The blessings are more precious as each day goes by. We live nearby them and get to spent much time with them. We will be keeping them the last week in May. Jenny and Kevin are going back to Guatemala on a mission trip- doing Bible study, and building houses. Pray for their safety. I will have to figure out how to post their pictures for all of you to see. If there are any oldsters still posting who remember us, let us hear from you. Vicki the Grammy

[GuateRose]

We were caught in the '03 Hague, but our agency didn't disclose the details until later! I had no idea there were forums like this out there, nor did we know anyone else who was adopting from Guatemala.
5 years later with the same child we are caught in it again!! ( see timeline for details!)
So while we were caught in the '03, I don't really know anything about it.

[bhouston]

Vicki
I do remember you and your daughter.....

We lived on each thread for any tidbit of information...most of it was not true most of the time...but we clung to it like it was! Lots and lots of rumors during that time for sure!

Brooklyn came home in Dec 03.....I will try and find a baby picture of her to post....I have a different name now because the old one wouldnt work but do not remember what it was now!

That is so wonderful you are close with your grandbabies!

We lost Brooklyns papa last yr and it was just a shock to her and she is still trying to recover..He was her heart....

[my3guats]

We too were part of the 03 mess. Our case also got tied up with US embassy and DNA approval and then went on to be put into investigation. There were so many issues with our case that for many months even after Hague issues were solved we didn't know if Isaac would ever come home so the pain of what all of you are feeling is so real to me as even though it has now been four years since he came home I can still go back to that time and feel the pain and know how it just overtakes your life.

I am sure the pain is similar but in my opinion this is so different than then...there just seems to be new issues each day. This is why I guess I was so angry at the attorneys and agencies that kept offering referrals...I was so afraid for the families and that they too would get caught up in a heart wrenching wait and not to mention the children. Until you have been in this spot you can't imagine the pain...so all of you caught up in this mess right now please know my thoughts and prayers are with each of you and the children that are waiting.

[spidermanteache]

Another Hague survivor here! We finally brought Parker home after waiting for a long 19 months. We were stuck in a 6 month embassy investigation along with
my3guats and many others.

Like many have said...the US wasn't involved really in 03 like they are now. This is very different and very worrisome to say the least.

I pray for all of the families involved everyday.

[KevinK]

We survived the 03 Hague Fiasco. I will disagree with posters on one major thing and let's all remember that time heals old wounds...

I think the uncertainty thing is the same with both. But in one, IMHO, important way this time it is not as bad. In 2003 there was no legal system in place. Whether or not our referals would even be recognized was in question. This time, the CNA, PGN, etc all are not saying the cases will be ended. They are all quoted as saying they want to see a speedy resolution (lord knows what they consider speedy of course).

The thing that is different now on the bad side is what had been going on leading into it. Even without this current hysteria cases were taking much longer than in 2003. So while most of us were only a few months into it when the poop hit the fan in 20003, this time PAPs have been waiting far longer before getting stuck in this garbage.

Ever since Feb 07 when that facilitator was busted, things have been taking a downturn in so many ways. What sucks is that many agencies ignored it and kept things like 4-6 month process "averages" on their websites. This misled many of you into believing you were entering a far more stable process than you were.

I remember about a year ago, when it looked like the US was going to be hardcore, that the special agent who arrested that facilitator told me it would get ugly. He estimated, based on indications he was getting from DOS and CIS, that cases would be taking 18-24 months to complete. It was at that point that we, Guatadopt, issued our warning to PAPs because we wanted everyone to know what they were getting into. As things turned out, the US backed off because I think they knew they were getting a new law and our Hague was imminent so they lost their will to investigate, scrutinize, and prosecute. But here we are and it is the Guatemalans doing those things which while seemingly unfair to many PAPs and children, did need to be done by someone. I just wish it could be faster and more transparent.

But hey, if they hold up to the one month thing, we're half way there....

Hang in there folks,

Kevin
Guatadopt.com

[giovanni7460]

My son is a Hague survivor as well. I didnt know about such forums. I found out about 2 months before he came home. We never even heard the word Hague until we went on a visit trip. Our foster mother actually told us what was going on. She was surprised we came and told us she did not think we would ever bring Giovanni home. Our agency fell apart in the Guatemala department and basically left us on our own for the last 4 months. We were lied to over and over again by our contact and the attorney. We did pick up without any agency help at all. It was a nightmare. It was a disaster. BUT, here we are over 4 years after Giovanni came home. I will never forget what it took to bring that little soul mate of mine home. I adore that little man. We took a chance again, lost that little one in July '06 after 4 months. We then faced a second closing and on GODS prayers we did it again. Antonio came home at 6 months. He is now 22 months.
It does end. There is that day that everything is done. Every bit of post adoption paperwork is finished. Then guess what? You wake up and continue living your life. You never forget where it started or how hard you fought. It just makes you more determined to make how it ends that much more amazing.
God Bless all the parents in process and there babies. God watch over all the babies in the world that hope for there forever families.
Patty

[EZ2Luv]

My heart broke during the Hague mess of 03 as it does now for the current mess. The saddest is that not only the waiting foreverfamilies but these babies are getting older and with each day the possibility of attachment issues increases. Prior to the Hague mess adoptions were taking 3 to 5 months and hardly ever did we read posts about grieving babies, traumatic gotcha days in the Marriott lobby and subsequent attachment issues when brought home including sleepless nights inconsolable babies, ect. This aspect of babies coming home at a young age was one of the most appealing factors in adoption from Guatemala and in that reason it was much better for babies and their families. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know the younger the babuiy, the easier the transition and attachment.

As an adoptee this makes me so very sad that these babies are innocent victims in all this bueacracy and political mess stemmed by a few dishonest , unethical, lawyers, facilitators and agencies causing the need for these prolonged investigations.

All I can do it pray that whatever the powers that be are doing can be expidited as quickly as possible for the sake of if no one else the children.

At this point I would be hard pressed to believe that any of the babies already in process are involved with anything dishonest, unethical or illegal.. The reason I feel this way is that they have been in process for so long that I would imagine if the lawyers had any power to bribe or do something illegal or unethical to speed up the process it would have already been done and by now these waiting babies in limbo would already be home with their loving forever families.(I hope that made sense).
I know that it has been said that time heals things and that may be very well true, but what about the babies that are left with the attachment issues that could last a lifetime? We all know that this is a reality just by ready some posts by he adoptees here that are dealing with such issues well into adulthood.

Again, I just pray that these babies are sent home quickly and if Guatemala want to revamp their adotions or close them let them start off new. These cases are grandfathered in, no sense in them beating a dead horse so to speak, there have been enough KOs from PGN already with alot of these cases for stupid reasons I might add, what more could they possibly find except draw this out a moonth or so longer.

EZ

[Anne1377]

Hi friends!

Another Hague survivor here. Annie is now 5 years old and doing very well! I remember the summer of 2003 all too well and how helpful and supportive fellow forum members were. It is great that this forum exists and there is so much support and understanding here!

Vicky...it is so nice too see you here again! Looking forward to seeing pictures of Elia and Ava.

Diane