[lmvsmom]

I feel like I am losing all control over DS when it comes to sleeping! He continually gets out of bed even when we are going through the same routine we always go through at bedtime. He tries to manipulate by saying things like, "I need a drink of water, I need to go potty (when he just peed), I need...etc." I tell him, Mama and Daddy are going to bed, your friends at daycare are in the bed, etc. Nothing helps! It's the same situation at naptime.

I feel like HE is telling US when he'll go to bed and when/if he will nap. I really don't like that! I mean, who's the parent?! What should I do?!!

[jrmiller]

Oh my gracious I am in the same boat right now as I write this. He is watching a vodeo and even when you say last one....... it doesn't always seem to work. Any help would be appreciated

[mamacrista]

Ya know, if we could find the answer to this problem, we'd all 3 be rich! I don't know what your inclinations are toward discipline, but that's how we dealt with bedtime with our boys--we have two of them, ages 6 and nearly 5. With each one of them, when they were old enough to understand, we treated the bedtime disruptions as we would any disobedience. If we put them to bed and told them to go to sleep and they got out of bed for anything less than a truly legitimate reason, we disciplined them in the set pattern for disobedience--whatever that is for you. For some it's loss of privileges, for some it's a spanking, etc.

There's also the idea (which did not work for us) that you build to a reward after so many nights of going to bed without disruption. FOr example, you can either buy at toy he's been wanting or put up a picture of it. After a set number of nights (you decide what is immediate but delayed enough timing for him) put stickers in boxes to indicate the number of successes he's had and when the boxes are filled, give him the toy or make a special trip to go buy it. Like I said, this worked at first for us, but they each of our boys decided they'd rather be awake with us than to get the toy they wanted. Go figure!

I also want to add that these sort of disciplinary actions or incentives--whichever you may choose, should only be done if the child is not having any traumatic sleeping issues. If there're severe and repeated nightmares/terrors, you might need to reconsider the sleep training until another time. Having said that, there is MUCH to be said for good sleep training for children. Our 3 children, 2 bios and 1 adopted (home 12/12/07) are peaceful and long sleepers. It is not easy to sleep train, but we read lots of books and decided that while sleep training is difficult and can be painful, if the child learns to sleep well without disruption, they are much happier and more rested during the day. Not everyone agrees with this theory, and there are lots of right ways to handle sleeping issues, but for us, even our new, 1 YO daughter, it has been wonderful. All children awake rested with huge smiles on their faces ready to take on the day. Oh yeah. And so do Mommy and Daddy! Ahhhh. Nothing like a good night sleep!!!

It is hard though. You'll get there though. It sounds like your son is completely NORMAL! He loves you and wants to be with you, and you are right to want that to happen during appropriate waking hours! Hang in there. It'll happen. You'll find a way. All of this is temporary. It will resolve as long as you stand firm as the parent, letting them know that they are safe and can rest peacefully knowing that you are lovingly in charge of them protecting time while they are asleep (and awake!).

Many blessings,
Crista in TX

[lmvsmom]

Well, I just wonder if he doesn't need sleep like normal people do? He did not settle down until 9:30 last night, and guess what, he was up at 4:30 this morning ready to play!!!

[connorsmommy1999]

Hi there

I have a different take on this - tho I totally understand and on many levels agree with the earlier discipline post --I'm just not sure it's going to work for every kid.

I have two DS's. The oldest was a dream about going to bed but would wake up a couple times a night for years. When he resisted going to bed we used rewards and it worked well.

The younger one was my nightmare. We fought it for a long long time but --one day I was trying to go to bed early because I had to be up at 3am and I realized how REALLY hard it is to go to sleep when your body/mind arent ready!--- a light bulb went off for me and we finally decided that try and work out a way that takes HIS biological clock into account and yet keeps us sane.


He seems to need around 6 hours sleep and has been this way since he was a toddler. What we've done is to let him stay up late - until he really seems drowsy. What this means is that he stays up with DH (who also only sleeps 6-7 hours) until 10/10:30 while I go to bed early. Then when DS wakes up at 4/5am I am able to get up with him. We did that for years and it really worked out well.

We had one pediatrician who was worried about him not getting 8 hours so they ordered a sleep study to make sure there wasnt some kind of problem but they gave him the "all clear".

DS is now 9 years old and doesnt need someone to be with him all the time anymore. We now have a 9:45 "in your room quietly" rule. We buy books on CD (long ones, not little kid ones so they last for days and he listens to those, plays bionicles etc until he falls asleep. In the morning if we arent up he'll usually play with small toy animals or something for a 1/2 hour or so and then get a bowl of cereal (which promptly wakes me up).

I think, to an extent, you cant really fight an internal clock. It's hard for adults to do it even when we NEED to so for kids it's especially hard.

[lmvsmom]

Thank you, I really think what you said makes sense!

[LadyTink]

I am right there with you. We are having some major sleep issues at our house right now. Gabriella has never been a great sleeper, but its never been as bad as it is now. Getting her to sleep is a HUGE struggle and then she wakes 2 or 3 times a night. I am so tired and out of ideas about how to solve this problem.

[connorsmommy1999]

Robyn


My oldest would wake 2-3 times a night too. His Dr put him on a mild dose of melatonin and it WORKED! he hasnt woken up at night since then.
the next time you see the Dr maybe you could ask him/her if it might work for your DD??

[sak9645]

1. Did your child recently move from crib to toddler bed or twin bed? Maybe it's too soon. My daughter LOVED her crib and was in it till she was almost 3.5; luckily, she was very tiny, and it was still a good fit. For many kids, a crib is a "safety zone", and they will climb out only when they really need to do so.

2. Does your child have a lot of nightmares? Many toddlers and preschoolers hate to go to bed in their own rooms, because they feel that they will have scary dreams. Talking with your child about dreams may help you identify stresses that you can address, which may help to prevent nightmares. As an example, some kids are visually sensitive and should not watch even the gentlest of videos or play the tamest of computer games after dinner. My daughter could play Freddi Fish -- a very gentle computer game -- at night and dream about monster fish.

3. Is your child in the "monsters under the bed" stage? Most kids go through a period of believing in monsters and scary things. It's hard to go to bed if you think that some horrible creature is under the bed or in the closet just waiting to "get" you. There are lots of ways you can help a child "monster-proof" a room -- for example, nonsense rhyme "spells" you can put on the monsters, a spray of Mom's perfume or air freshener (monsters hate nice smells), and a careful pre-bedtime check of the room to make sure all the monsters are out.

4. Is your child getting enough exercise, especially outdoors? Many kids simply don't get enough chances to engage in very active play, especially in the bright sunlight. Then they are simply not tired at night.

Day care centers and home-based day care providers are big offenders in this area. Many have even three and four year old kids outside for less than an hour per day, even in good weather, and don't have a gym or other indoor space for large muscle play in bad weather.

Part of the reason is that it's much harder to supervise active children, and much harder to prevent accidents. It's also harder for caregivers to deal with putting on and taking off kids' outerwear a couple of times a day.

But convenience for caregivers should not be the basis of a day care center's arrangements. A good day care center or preschool is child-centered, and the staff focus on what's right for the kids, including up to two hours a day of outdoor or gym exercise if the children are at least two. If there are enough well-trained staff, and if there is safe play equipment, vigilance and some easy ground rules will keep the kids safe. The staff of a good day care center won't be sitting around chatting with each other when kids are outside or in a gym; they will be interacting with and staying close to the kids.

Your child should be having a long outdoor play time outside both morning and afternoon, as long as it's not raining and not bitterly cold or dangerously hot. Ideally, there should also be access to a gym or other large area for indoor running around, ball-playing, using pedalless trikes, playing games like "Red Light, Green Light" and "Simon Says", etc., when outdoor play isn't possible.

The day care teacher should insist that children wear weather-appropriate, active play-appropriate clothing every day. Children should also have a change of clothes in their cubbies in case they get wet, muddy, etc.

I was lucky to find a terrific synagogue-run day care center/preschool with a well-equipped playground; access to an adjacent public playground, ball field, and open land; and a large gymnasium complete with pedal-less trikes, balls, tumbling mats, etc. I know that it took lots of effort by the staff to keep the kids playing nicely and safely, but it was worth it. The kids developed great physical skills, learned about teamwork, and were thoroughly TIRED when they got home.

5. Does your child seem OVER-tired? While you should keep your child active enough to tire him out, beware of overtiring him. The child who is overtired, strange as it may sound, won't sleep or nap properly.

Do insist on a formal rest break after lunch at home, every single day, even if your child refuses to nap. Tell your child that he must stay in his room, on his bed, for a certain time, such as two hours. If he claims not to be sleepy, fine. Give him some books and stuffed animals and say that he must play with them quietly on the bed. Do not use TVs or videos, although some quiet background music is fine. Many children will start to play and then fall asleep, but even if your son doesn't, he will "recharge his batteries" through a good rest.

Make sure that day care also has a formal naptime. Two hours after lunch would be ideal. Each child should have a mat or cot. Children should be expected to remain on their mats or cots throughout the naptime, even if they don't sleep, and they must not socialize with their buddies. If they can't sleep or rest, then they may look at a book or do a puzzle quietly. Lights should be dimmed and distractions should be minimized; soft music may help.

6. Some young children, and especially some adopted children, may have difficulty separating from parents, well beyond the typical age for separation anxiety. Bedtime and naptime, whether at home or away, are especially difficult for these children. Even if they enjoy day care and attach well to their caregivers, the children may develop acute homesickness at naptime, and they may want to have their parents in the same room when they sleep or nap at home.

Many parents believe that young children, and especially young adopted children, actually NEED to be with parents at such times, to develop a sense of security. They feel that they will not "spoil" children by "giving in" to the children's need for closeness but, rather, will promote stronger attachment.

At night, many such parents encourage their children to sleep in a "family bed". Others may sleep in their child's room for a few hours at night. During naptime, some parents try to lie down with their children, or have their children nap on a sofa, futon, or mat in a room near where they will be doing chores -- for example, in a family room adjacent to the kitchen.

Personally, I have no problem with this approach, if a child seems very vulnerable and the parents can handle it. However, I did not use it, as my daughter was very secure, very comfortable with sleeping alone, etc. You might want to try it for a few months, and see how well it works for your child and for you.

7. Do you ever punish your child by making him go to his room or to bed -- for example, if he drew on the wall or acted "sassy" to Mom or Dad? Unfortunately, this sort of punishment often tends to cause sleep problems at night and naptime, as a child comes to associate staying in his room with being punished. Replace "go to your room" with a timeout elsewhere in the house. Make the child's room a place that is ALWAYS welcoming and safe.

I hope this helps.

Sharon

[Wonk]

First, off, being a toddler, he is trying to manipulate is world to what he thinks is his own benefit. That is what they do. In fact, it has helped us to understand that this is our daughter's "job" and she is very good at it. So when you say you feel like he wants to be the parent, you are absolutely right. Manipulating his environment is his job and he is probably doing a very good job at it.

Getting up, engaging you in conversation, etc, is all part of his "job" of figuring out how to manipulate his world. Your job is to manage this so he is able to manipulate his world up to a degree but not everything. When he keeps getting out of bed, he is really trying to get attention from you. Every time you respond to him, every time you answer his question about water, or potty, or whatever, he has "won" that round by getting the attention he wanted. What we do is give no answers to questions, no attention, just leading her back to bed. We do have a "one free pass" rule which means that she can get one free water or pee or question or needing a stuffed animal or whatever. But after one, it is simply leading her back to bed with no eye contact and no speaking to her - no attention whatsoever. No trying to reason with her. It has worked well for us. It is basically the same technique as Supernanny's if you ever watch that.

As for naptime, we try to stick to a schedule which I think helps. And we use the technique from that sleeping book that everyone talks about. She goes down for a nap. If she cries, we wait 15 minutes and then go in, kiss her on the head, no eye contact and no speaking, and then leave again. Sometimes it takes 45 minutes for her to settle but eventually does settle and go to sleep because it is what her body really wants.

So hang in there and don't let him manipulate you.

[TyAva]

We also use the technique where we walk her back to bed without saying anything. The first few nights we did this it probably took 4 or more times until she stayed in bed and fell asleep - now she rarely gets out of bed during the night. It can be hard to tell before they can talk, but nightmares/scary dreams are a different storey. They get comforted and reassured of their safety, etc before they get tucked back in bed.

I know that this will sound awful, but I also bribe them. At bed we sing "Baby baby if you sleep all night I'll give you a cookie in the morning". They think it is so funny and will actually run up and down the hall singing it in the morning together - so cute! (They then get teddy grahams, or short berad type cookies...along with their healthy breakfast foods.) I know it's not great, but at 9 months preg I really need all of the sleep I can get!

Good luck!

[JustBarbara]

Well, I know that when DS was being cranky about going to bed it was usually because he was over-tired. He has a daily 2-2 1/2 hour nap at daycare - while the kids eat lunch their little beds/mattresses are prepared. I try to stick to his daycare napping routine and weekday bedtimes. Every weekend day we get outside, to the playground or a long walk around the neighborhood - ie not in his stroller. Unless it's torrential rain or a blizzard there's no reason not to get some fresh air and I am a firm believer that it helps his sleep routine. At almost 2 we have a regular quiet time - 15-20minutes before bedtime the lights are dimmed, no other noise except Mama reading some books and then we whisper to each other. 'Nigh-nigh Mama' he whispers and just crawls into sleeping position and out I go. Good luck - I agree with another poster - never use the bedroom as a place for punishment - I have tried a chair by the front door - very boooorrrring.

[Wonk]

Had to laugh - keeping to a schedule (at 16 months, 7:15 is bed time) and a routine has worked out to well that tonight, our daughter got her blanket, her pacifier, and walked off to bed by herself. We didn't have to do anything except lift her into the crib...

[CurlysGirly]

Originally Posted by connorsmommy1999

Robyn


My oldest would wake 2-3 times a night too. His Dr put him on a mild dose of melatonin and it WORKED! he hasnt woken up at night since then.
the next time you see the Dr maybe you could ask him/her if it might work for your DD??

Do I have to say first that I am not a Dr?....lol.
Anyways...I just wanted to chime in because we used melatonin in a liquid form for DS for almost 2 years and he built up a resistence to it. Our DS's new nuerologist says that melatonin needs a week "vacation" every 4 months. Right now we're using something a little stronger but that's a whole other story.

[BobMiami]

Many suggestions on here are really helpful, although I once counted 63 silent trips to my son's bedroom before he went to sleep.

I don't think, however, that spanking your kid to make him or her go to sleep is a particularly good suggestion.