[Carleen]

I have seen some people post that they are/have adopted biological siblings.

This leads me to a very delicate and sensitive question. If a biological mother has given her child "freely" for adoption, why would she get pregnant in as little as 3 months after doing so? I mean, I can only imagine what a difficult decision it must be to place your child up for adoption. I can't speak for anyone else, but I would be scared to death to get pregnant again for fear of having to do the same thing. There has been a lot of negative comments made to people for expressing THEIR opinion, that is why I've hesitated in posting this.

To me, it just raises the question that so many people in the media are already asking, are these birthmothers being paid to have babies?

As a PAP, I want to know the answer to this question.

Now I know that this thread is going to have a lot of people automatically throwing up their "defense shield," however, I hope that before you lash out at me and hit "send" that you give it a few minutes for this question to truly sink in.

After seeing that piece from the Miami Herald on YouTube, I can't bury my head in the sand anymore. My future daughter deserves better.

Thanks,

[guatmom2007]

I think this is an excellent question. I have noticed myself that it appears to be happening quite a bit. I wish I knew the answer, but I don't. Sorry.

Thanks for asking though. I hope that people don't "hesitate" to post anything here. It is a forum and forums are a place for people to exchange information/ideas/opinions. We are ALL entitled to express our opinions.

[Shoshana]

Many women, especially in impoverished countries, do not simply "choose" to get pregnant. A choice involves access to education and adequate contraception, and the freedom to say no. Education and contraception are sorely lacking, especially in the indigenous areas, and the freedom to say no is not a given in a machismo culture. I think it's important to recognize that we are interpreting the meaning of very personal behavior (both sexual & adoption) through the lens of our own culture. At the very least, we should recognize that we might not understand the whole picture.

Kudos to you for jumping into the fray and asking the hard questions right from your very first post.

[Tiggysgirl]

You have to remember that not only is Guatemala a poor country, but it is also a very strong Catholic country. Birth control is not readily available and neither is information about methods to prevent pregnancy. So, from my understanding, the only way for these bmom's to prevent pregnancy again is to abstain. A lot of these bmom's are also in long-term, monogomous relationships, but for some reason choose not to be married. (This came from my agency director and is our bmom's situation - why this happens in a Catholic country, I'm not sure, but I'd guess it's because marriage is too expensive to actually perform or is not accessible - again, I"m not sure of this answer.)

So, if you take away the fact that our bmom's (any for US adoptions) are unmarried, it would be like expecting a very strong Catholic family in the US to stop having children (especially 30 or more years ago). I have a lot of friends who come from Catholic families who have 6 or more siblings.

I do understand where your question comes from though and I think it's a good question to raise. My comments don't (I don't believe) necessarilly negate the theory that SOME bmom's may be receiving payment, but I think that it is another explanation to explore.

It's been said before in threads like this ... it makes research of your agency extremely important. I believe there is only so much I can personally do to ensure my son's adoption is ethical; I have to trust my agency to work with attorneys and other people in Guatemala who they have researched as well and believe to be ethical.

[szumbiel]

I think it is important to first of all take a step back from the situation and look at the question of wantingly getting pregnant as it applies to issues in third world countries such as Guatemala. I would venture to guess that there is an assumption being made that women in Guatemala are able to take 100% control over becoming pregnant and this would be quite a first world view on a third world issue.

Facts show clearly that birth control is largely unavailable even if a woman in poverty in Guatemala knows about or would consider using it. Almost 1/3 of women in Guatemala state they have an unmet need of birth control.

The male dominant culture also leaves many women without choices. In speaking with one person working in a village area in the rural parts of Guatemala, he was telling me that if a girl (because most are pretty young when they marry) does not get pregnant in the first year of a marriage, the husband often abandons her as "broken" and unable to produce children for him. There is rampant abuse against women also which leads to unwanted pregnancies.

Women who work in prostitution are paid half the fee if they use protection. For many women this is a good way to earn a living while not understanding the ramifications of this choice on their own bodies. For the record, prostitution in Guatemala is legal.

Finally, although certainly not covering all reasons unwanted pregnancies are so high in Guatemala, there is a very clear lack of understanding of how the body even works in Guatemala. I have attended several classes on women's health and reproduction among impoverished women and I am always amazed at the misinformation and lack of understanding of the basic functions of the female body. Without education, though, how do women learn.

Personally, I know a woman who has relinquished two children (can guarantee openly no monetary gain for her) and finds herself pregnant again and not knowing what to do. Sadly, she found out she was pregnant after asking if she could get help getting a tubal ligation. When she went to pursue this as an option to not have to relinquish another child, she found out she was pregnant. Choice is not something that is easy to have for Guatemalan women living in poverty.

I would just ask as we go through this thread that we remember discussing getting pregnant as a concious choice of doing so is a bigger issue in Guatemala than whether a woman is getting pregnant to get a payoff for relinquishing a child.

[triciabn]

I think this is a perfectly normal question for you to ask...
That being said.... getting pregnant is a pretty simple thing for a lot of us. I imagine that many young women are told the exact same thing that women the world wide have been told.....
*"I love you"
*"This is forever"
*"I will never leave you"
*"We will make a life together"
*"It's okay, I am sterile"
*Not to mention the ZILLION lies young women (and men) circulate about how if you "cough afterwards"...."right after/before your period it is impossible"...."drink this afterwards"....
*How about the alcohol factor?
*Infidefity?
I imagine that it is the same thing that happens in this country...EXCEPT that our young people have access to birth control and sexual health counceling. and even with all that....their were more domestic adoptions last year then international (at least that was what I read yesterday).
As a birth educator and doula (mostly to single mothers) I have had many women tell me the crazy stories they believed in the moment...because they desperatly wanted to feel loved and cherished....and for that moment in time not think about the world they live in.
With all of the single moms I supported in their births I often saw a momma get pregnant within 2years of her last birth... In this country we teach our daughters how to use a pad but we don't teach them about figuring out their fertile days...I have told many a woman..."it's much easier to borrow a pad then a babysitter....best to learn when you are most fertile" So if that is THIS country..... can you imagine the level of empowering info in a third world country??????
It's not about "didn't they learn their lesson the first time"......it's about how women the world over have been robbed and stifled in their circulation of how our bodies really work. It's also about the lies we (as women) believe.
Obviously this is a subject I am very close to as a birth educator and doula....so I hope I didn't miss what you were asking and go off on a tangent,lol.
Tricia

[Carleen]

I can completely understand, at least I think I can, that in many cases, women do not have a choice with regard to becoming pregnant.

I know that my question cannot possibly be answered, was just how do we know they aren't being paid.

The previous poster had an excellent point, we just have to make sure that our agencies are ethical.

I just thought of something. Even if the birthmothers are being paid, occasionally, the end result is simply a child who needs a family. We can't stop attorney's from paying birthmoms, but we can provide loving homes for the little babies left behind.

[judymend]

Hi Carleen,

This is a very legitimate question you ask, and you're certainly not the only one who might be wondering or asking themselves "how could the birthmother get pregnant yet again"?

The way I view this problem, because let's face it, its a huge problem...as you know, this is a third world country, a country so close to the United States, part of our continent, and is a country of contrasts. Within Guatemala City you see beautiful high rise luxury hotels, roads filled with modern cars and residential zones of luxury. On the streets, lots of people and traffic, you see professionals dressed in European elegance, and women and children dressed in indigenous garments, brightly colored and hand loomed.

Then you go a mere hour into the countryside, and there is an indigenous lifestyle that defies time and modern culture. Campesinos (village people) living in huts on large plantations, seaside communities relying on earth and sea for sustenance. A country of more than 50 dialects and languages, with a recent history of civil war with its majority indigenous population, and a current attempt to deal with its cultural and economic diversity, Guatemala is clearly, a country in transition.

Here are some sad but true statistics: More than 70% of Guatemalans are living in poverty and 65% of that group are living in "dire poverty". More than 50% of the children in Guatemala are undernourished, under educated, and have little opportunity of moving out of the circle of poverty which has characterized their population for generations.

So in my view, the ignorance and lack of education is the culprit for this vicious cycle in Guatemala, and guess what, it happens in modern countries too! When I began our adoption journey, our first country of choice was my country, the United States of America. In researching the US, unfortunately, it was going to be a very difficult journey, with the larger risk of a birthmother changing her mind during or after giving birth. Poverty strikes many walks of life in different corners of this earth, including here in the United States...and if it is alive in one of the greatest, richest, most powerful country, could you imagine in a 3rd world country? Most of these women are placed between a rock and a hard place - Guatemala, still predominently of the Catholic Religion, although slowly changing to Evangelical and Pentecostal Christianity, does not allow the woman to use birth control and heaven forbid if you attempt to abort, the woman would probably be executed on the spot! Also, machismo is customary in the Guatemalan men, and often times their spouse or partners are forced to have intercourse (raped)! Wow, what a huge problem, what a sad problem - my heart aches for those women that are faced with these barbaric conditions every day.

Of course, you have the flip side of these facts above...women who are literate and do understand what they are doing, and might not be as poverty stricken as the "Campesinos", and could be giving birth to have their babies placed for adoption and for a possible monetary compensation. But I truly feel that this is not the majority.

These my thoughts, my feelings, my personal views. I'm glad that you asked this question, and I am looking forward to everyone's response - this forum is a wealth of information and one with people with great insight.

Blessings,
Judy

[praying4rlittl1]

When I visited Guatemala City, I was able to talk extensively with a young gal who serves as a translator there. Her sister started and now runs one of only two crisis pregnancy centers in Guatemala City. ONE OF TWO. In city of almost 4 million. They do contraceptive education as well as prenatal care, but even they can only do so much.

And if they are one of two IN Guatemala City, I can only imagine that there are almost none in the outlying areas.

Staggering.

[karen nickols]

I remember when I spent some time in the villages do mission work that the women thought breast feeding would prevent pregnacy and the men loved to tell you how many children they had. The women often looked just exhausted. And the older sisters would carry around the older baby as the mon carried the newest born. The level of poverty is something hard to understand. As someone pointed out 5o miles and you are in a different world. Most times only a few of the men learn spanish and they are the ones that travel to the bigger cities to do business. A third grade education was likely as much they would get and often that was just the boys. Also sometimes the men would leave to find work elsewere and leave wife and children essentially abandoned. It really is a hard situation to grasp from our cultural perspective.

[gwenrenee007]

Someone posted on another thread mentioned that rape happens a lot more than we may think. They posted some great articles, but I can't find a thread.

Edited to add the articles. These articles are pretty disturbing.

BBC NEWS | Americas | Guatemala's epidemic of killing

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/com...cle1081032.ece

http://www.amnestyusa.org/Stop_the_K...3&n2=39&n3=729

http://www.amnestyusa.org/document.p...usa20051129002

[guatmom2007]

WOW! I am so impressed with the way this discussion has gone. Kudos to Carleen for asking the question. And Kudos to everyone else for these honest, thought-provoking responses.

For me, I tend to put too much stock in media reports. Thank you so much to everyone for educating me on this subject!

[amymole36]

We are in the midst of deciding on adopting Hannah's bio. sister who is less than a year apart. I have thought through this question many times...the only other reason I have besides what has already been stated is that she went through a HUGE loss and maybe she felt like if she had another baby that would help her with her grief. Her birthmom only decided to place this second baby for adoption 9 days after she was born. It is possible that she was trying to take care of this baby, but realized that she couldn't. Just something to think about....

[Mariais5]

This is not just something that happens in Guatemala. I was shocked when our youngest son's birthmom became pregnant again within months after making an adoption plan for him. She decided to parent that child. Then, when we adopted our oldest daughter, we found that she had a bio sibling only 14 months older than her that the birthmom was parenting. Both of these adoptions were domestic.

I asked our social worker about it. With our son's adoption, I thought that perhaps the loss of her son was too much, so his birthmom decided to get pregnant again right away to fill the void. The social worker told me that it was very common ~ I think she said about 50% of the women she had worked with had gotten pregnant again within months, and this is in the US. She sees it with people who choose an adoption plan and with those who decide to parent. She really didn't have an explanation for it only that she saw it a lot.

[MicheleB]

I am very pleased to see that soo many of us Guatemala "moms" have taken the time to ask these questions and to do research about our childrens country and to spend humanitarian time in Guatemala even. It shows that we care, not only for these beautiful babies, but for their birth families and the country they were born in.

Two of our children are bio siblings. I do know that their birth mom has 6 other children at home (all of them working, not going to school) and these are her two youngest children. My middle son, his bio brother just got out of PGN (another awsome family is adopting him) and I know that he came to the hogar at 3 months old because his birth mom wanted so badly to raise this baby and tried for three months before realizing she was not able to. I do know that the father of her children (she has two others in Guatemala being raised by her sister) comes and goes and works far away from her.

Here is another good site for statistics about the country and it's poverty and infant/child mortality rate. https://www.cia.gov/library/publicat...k/geos/gt.html

Compare it to the US: https://www.cia.gov/library/publicat...k/geos/us.html

The birth rate is almost double in Guatemala compared to the United States.

The infant mortality rate is 30 deaths per 1000 in Guat. vs 6 deaths per 1000 in the US.

The fertility rate in Guatemala is also almost double compared to the US.

Lastly, the poverty rate: Guatemala has over 56% of it's population living under the poverty line, whereas in the U.S., only 12% live under the poverty line.

Very interesting to compare the two.

Thanks to everyone for caring enough to look for and try to find answers and become informed!