[jennifervan]

this is making it harder and harder to be in public. I can't get her to stop either. Gabi is 22 months old and came home at 18 months. I know about terrible twos but my boys never cried this much....or at least I could get them to stop and listen to me.

An example of this:
I was in line ordering our food at McDonalds and she wanted to run away. She did not want to stay near me or hold my hand. She wanted to go 10 feet away from me. I insisted that she stay near me and she cried. She absolutely "bawls". It is SO embarrasing. It is impossible to distract her or get her to stop. I had to leave immediately.

This has been so hard to deal with. I don't think my boys ever did this. I knew that once in a while they would throw a tantrum and I would punish them and they would stop. OR I could say "you won't get to do such and such" if you continue...and at age 22 months they understood me or knew the rules.
This is hard.....help.

Jennifer

[arthymom]

Our bio. ds was a handful. He hit terrible 2s really hard. There were days when I would hold him down in a time out since he wouldn't stay in one ever by himself.

It sounds like your instincts are fine but you feel guilty. I am of the mindset that if kids are acting out they need to be removed from the situation and definitely let known that the behavior is not ok, in that firm and loving way that moms and dads know best.

I understand our ds so much better now than when he was two. In our case, our ds turned out to be a kid who needs A LOT of transitional cues. He just is not very flexible and doesn't transition well. When we figured out how to prompt him before situations better AND he got older (2s were just hard!) he got better and we were happier as a family.

Best,

[PackGirl]

I"m sorry you are going through this also. Our Kinney (20 months old) is also like this. He also has a habit of going limp and lying down when trying to walk him somewhere or correct him.

We had to have our lunch wrapped up today infact for this very reason. He had chocolate milk but he wanted water. My dh gave him a little water and then told him to eat his food. He just began screaming. He then tried to crawl across the table, dh corrected him and sat him back down and he bawled and bawled. Dh took him out to the car where he cried scremed all the way there and all the way home.

I have not yet figured out what to do.... I really wish I had some advice for you. But you are not alone in this.

[Devora]

Given her age and the fact that she's only been home four months you may well be deaing with transitional issues as well as language barriers. There's still so much that is new to her, new expectations for her behavior, etc.

You might want to check out the attachment board. I'm not suggestion that she has an attachment problem, but just that she's still in a transition time. There may be lots of good information and suggestions on that board.

Best wishes.

[saranbr]

We are dealing with the same thing though to a lesser degree from the sounds of it. DD came home at 7 months and is now 24 so you are probably still dealing with alot more adjustment than we are, but I still get the screaming fits. Generally, I try to avoid taking her places where some amount of screaming really is going to be obnoxious. Places like McDonalds-- screaming until you have finished getting your order and are able to gather the children up isn't going to hurt anyone. It's McDonalds. If the people there can't handle screaming until you can reasonably leave then they should try finer dining. Last week she screamed half way though the Costco shopping trip cause I took a loaf of bread away that she'd taken a bight out of after I told her no biting bread. I just decided that it's Costco, it's a huge place that can absorb lots of sound and the lesson around obedience was more important than the fact that I was rather mortified by the scene. Also, try not to set yourself up for disappointment-- I've found that if I don't really have high hopes for a great experience that when it degenerates into a screaming ordeal, I can more easily just walk away without feeling like a failure.

[angelkisses0102]

Because she is so newly home and she is so new to you and you to her...she may be taking these instances as a form of rejection...remember she is really still a baby. Anytime you say no to her behavior, she could very well be viewing it as you are saying no to her. Especially because she has struggled in her transition to your family.

I am also an advocate of making a newly adopted child's world very small. Very, very small at first and then very slowly growing it. Every single experience is something new to the kiddos. I am guessing that life in a foster family probably did not allow for such things as a trip to McD's, a trip to the mall, even one of our super sized mega stores. Everything is foreign...in more ways than one. It is overstimulating at best in most cases...especially for a toddler. So sometimes we sacrafice...all of us.

We did cut out so many things because of our DS getting so overstimulated. And it was hard, on us, on our daughter. But my son never asked for any of this...he had no choice in the matter, so we adapted ourselves to him at first. It is a sacrafice but when you choose to add to your family through adoption, this is one of the risks. We personally felt it wasn't fair to expect our child to just adapt...without making it easier for him.

Even still, 3 plus years later...due to DS's struggles...our world is so different that it was pre-DS. But it is good. We rarely eat inside a McD's but we go through the drive through and eat at home...for example. It is hard when you have other kids...but they will adapt as well. Heck, we can even go out to dinner in a non-kid themed restaurant these days. Hang in and give her as much time as SHE needs.

[BrooklynsMom]

I rarely post here anymore and have not read all the responses but wanted to mention that we had some attachment stuff with our daughter who is now 4....she came home at 9.5 months and was very close to her foster mom....Her behavior went from sweet to angry and throwing fits....and not listening....Someone told me about the attach china board on yahoo and that saved us!!!! Nancy Thomas has a program called Taming the Tiger while it is still a kitten which is excellent....Does sound like you may be having attachment issues...and it is VERY to get started on correcting this as soon as possible! Things only get worse!!! There is so much help available though and so much that works!!!! This can be totally changed around!! We experienced a death in our family a week ago that just happened to be our daughters Papa whom she was VERY attached to from Day 1....him and my husband were everything to her....She immediately went right back into the anger and detached behavior .....it was heartbreaking...and still is....it has only been a week but because of the information I had learned on the attach China board and the taming the tiger....I started doing those techniques again...and it saved her again....I thought we were going to lose her all over again....she is still in deep grief....but not shutting down....best of luck....Beth in Idaho

[shelbydog]

I feel your pain! Mia came home at 4 months and she is 22 months old, so this same behavior is not attachment issues at all - at least in our case. It is a bad case of the terrible 2's! Here's what we do - I had to really put my foot down.

#1 - if I can help it, if it's a situation where I cannot expect her to understand or behave (example, taking my 4 yr old to a restaurant with a play place that she is way too young for - and I know she'll have a fit wanting to go play), I simply don't go for now! It's not worth the tantrums, and honestly, it's not fair to her. I've gotten very good at simply saying "no" to playdates, and/or getting a babysitter.

#2 - The example you mentioned in McD's - she would be in a stroller if she is trying to run away.

#3 - If you attempt without a stroller and you tell her she needs to stay with you and she throws a tantrum, I give her a warning - firmly telling her she either stays with me or we are leaving. She understands leaving because we've done it and/or I have taken her outside. Sometimes I'll take her outside if she is crying/screaming and she seems to get it, and when I bring her back in, she behaves.

I have found that some of her tantrums are honestly my fault. I either put her in a situation where she is simply too young to understand what is acceptable....however, there comes a time when we have to try to teach them and "bite the bullet" and set an example. We have several babysitters we use and that helps alot, when a situation arises where I have to take my son places and it simply wouldn't work and/or not be enjoyable chasing after her.

My son was not like this either - he was very laid back and never tried to run off - I think alot of it is personality - Mia never, ever stops moving - her curiosity is endless...she has to touch absolutely everything....I have heard from friends that girls are way more demanding, more dramatic, etc when it comes to not getting their way. I am starting to believe it.

At home, we have gotten really firm with her. We started one minute timeouts. If I tell her not to do something and she does it anyway, she goes to the corner. She will actually sit there ?! Which makes me think alot of what she does is for attention. Also, if I tell her not to do something or take away something she can't play with or is dangerous, and she throws herself on the ground and tantrums, she goes to the corner also. I think some personalities warrant a much stricter approach - and Mia is one of those personalities!

[Wonk]

I read a really good book on the neurological development of babies that talked about this. They said tantrums were created by two different things. The first one is from an underdeveloped emotional system in the brain. The child wants something or feels something but they lack the ability to govern that emotion, to temper it to a reasonable level. The just boom FEEL IT and don't have a governing system to control it. It isn't that they want to be this way - it is just that their brains are not wired yet to respond in adult ways. The thing to do is the same thing that you would do for a friend who was working through a difficult emotion - support them. Cuddle, pat their back, say things like "wow you really seem to feel angry." You don't have to give them what they want but you do need to acknowlege that they are having an overwhelming emotion.

The second kind of tantrum is a bit more calculated. They called these the "little Nero" tantrums. The kid is trying to manipulate you do to what they want you to do through bad behavior. The trick here is to not give the kid what they want because once they learn that their bad behavior gets them what they want, then they will continue to use that to get what they want. Then you have basically put them in control of your lives. It is their job to try to bend the world to their will - children are big bundles of ego because that it what let them survive a very harsh world. For them, everything is about figuring out how to get their needs met and doing whatever it takes to get that - tantrums if necessary.

[LadyTink]

Gabriella is 21 months old and she does this all the time. If she does not get what she wants, the second she wants it, she throws a HUGE tantrum. I think part of it is her age and part of it is her temperament. If we're in public, I just pick her up and remove her from the situation until she calms down (that can be quite a long time, too). If we're at home, I try to ignore her. But, she has a tendency to throw herself backward or bang her head when she's REALLY, REALLY angry, so if she gets to that point, I pick her up and hold her until she's calm. These are perfect solutions, but they work ok for us. Hang in there!!

[Mommy2twins]

I feel your pain. I have two nearly 18 month olds now that came home at 8 months. We rarely seem to get out anymore because the tantrums have gotton so bad. If I have to then I put them in the stroller but I have to keep moving or give them something to focus on or they get very fussy. DS will really put on a show, go limp, scream so loud you think your ears will burst. I don't have other children to compare it to but I certainly wasn't prepared for this. It's not real fun. My hubby is home on the weekends and always insists that we take the kids out to stores, etc with us and will even suggest that we let them walk. Today I gave in to teach him a lesson. I took DD, who is generally a little better and he took DS. Within 10 mins at REI I looked over and DH was red in face, trying to hold DS who was screaming and arching his back. This was all over him being carried up the stairs! I think DH gets the point now. Before we finished shopping, he went back and got the stroller and when we finished I asked him "where next?"... reply "home". Exhausting!

[tooskis]

Oh Jenniver, I'm a rookie still with Chase so I have no advice. It was great to hear these answers though so thanks for asking the question. Chase is now nearly 22 months and I'm waiting for his first big meltdown in public. It hasn't happened yet but I'm sure we'll have one in the near future.

Good to see an old name on the board! Hang in there!

[jennifervan]

Thanks so much for all the helpful information and especially for the stories of your children. It is good to know that I am not alone in this.
Today we left a picnic because she couldn't stop crying. She wanted to stand on the edge of a new deck that stairs had not been built for yet....very dangerous. Older kids were playing there (it was 2 ft off he ground). So because mommy told her no- she cried. I tried distracting her. We held her but she would not stop. So...we went home. I know she was tired so I we went home and put her to bed. I felt bad for my boys who were playing with their friends.

I don't think it is attachment issues- maybe it is exagerated by it. However, I think she knows she is being disobedient because she will get mad and cross her arms accross her chest and say "no". I asked her 2x's nicely...and then I led her away from that area of the deck.

With a 6 and 7 year old in our home already and a baby on the way...I think Gabi will have to learn to adjust. I don't think it would be fair to alter our lives. I think she may have to get use to us anyway eventually. I hope that does not sound too harsh. I don't want this to effect her long term...it is times like these that make me frustrated that it took so long to bring her home in the first place.

Anyways thank you guys for your help,
Jennifer

[Devora]

If you haven't read it, Toddler Adoption: The Weaver's Craft may be very helpful. Although our son came home at 8 months and had a smooth transition (it was still a process), this book helped more than anything else at sensitizing us to what he might experience and how we could do things in the transition time to help prevent later problems and deal with problems should they occur.

I'm sure it's difficult with other children as well, but it sounds like less stimulation, fewer outings, more quiet time with you where you can do more active attachment exercises might be helpful. The book has some good suggestions for simple games that foster secure attachment.