[DD Amasa]

The last several days the father has been quoted as saying all these human rights organizations ought to mind their own business. He wants his son to be adopted and given a better life, there's no future for him in an orphanage. It's impossible to know what to believe anymore. There are a lot of anti-adoption organizations in the world and I wouldn't be surprised if they are mudding things up a bit to say the least. I hope what's best for the child is taken into consideration at some point.

[hpmom]

First I would like to say that I am an adoptive mom, and I adopted from Guatemala..I adopted an older child and have also been to visit Guatemala since the adoption was final..I do not believe for ONE second that my daughters paticular adoption was totally on the up and up..I have since learned via agencys and lawyers and foster mothers and even birth mothers that, often times money changes hands(not legally)...I also know that many birth mothers who place theri child are not totally understanding of the process...I cannot believe that anyone who has adopted would ever judge the bio father of the child Madonna adopted, I would not even speculate on what he did or did not understand..Would Madonna be "heartbroken" if she had to follow the country laws as we all supposedly did??? I have heard people say Madonna paid for a child when in fact I believe a country SOLD her a child, this is not going to give adoptions any more bad light then the realists already know about...Anyone who really believes that every step of the way thru out an international adoption that there is not one hand held out is deaf dumb and blind..I refuse to make a judgment on the story other then to say she should have been made to follow the law-Furthermore for anyone of us to speculate that this child will NEVER go back to his place of birth is out of line..I for one hope my daughter wants to go back to see or even spend long periods of time in her birth country...Being rich and american won't make a child not have the desire to know their roots..We should all be encouraging our kids to hold on to who they are "Guatemalan"..Madonna sadly should have folloed Angelina Jolie and done things on the up and up, her story will shed a bad light but her is certainly no way the first..
MHO

[tybeemuffin]

Originally Posted by hpmom

First I would like to say that I am an adoptive mom, and I adopted from Guatemala..I adopted an older child and have also been to visit Guatemala since the adoption was final..I do not believe for ONE second that my daughters paticular adoption was totally on the up and up..I have since learned via agencys and lawyers and foster mothers and even birth mothers that, often times money changes hands(not legally)...

...Anyone who really believes that every step of the way thru out an international adoption that there is not one hand held out is deaf dumb and blind

This is not an attack, but while, you have a right to your opinion. I also am an adoptive Mom and I did adopt from Guatemala. I don't consider myself deaf, dumb or blind. While there are questions about some of the adoption practices of some agencies in Guatemala. I believe my adoption was on the UP and Up, if it wasn't I wouldn't have adopted. I don't believe that my DD was Sold to me and I do take offense when people suggest that there was anything improper that may have went on with my adoption. I have faith that my Agency (non-profit) handled things legitimately. If I didn't believe this, I would have gone the biological route for Motherhood.

I wouldn't have even considered questioning the father's motives for changing his mind had I not seen actual interview on TV. This was not a newspaper report, this was him actually speaking to a camera saying that he was happy about the adoption and that he wished the human rights organizations would back off. Unless the translator translated what he said incorrectly. That is what he said to a camera. Now he has changed his story. I can't know what is going through his mind right now, but it all is very questionable to me.

Originally Posted by hpmom

I have heard people say Madonna paid for a child when in fact I believe a country SOLD her a child....
Madonna sadly should have folloed Angelina Jolie and done things on the up and up, her story will shed a bad light but her is certainly no way the first..
MHO

No one knows yet if Madonna followed all the rules or not. According to Rosie O'donnell who is an Adoptive Mother of 4 and has been a friend of Madonna's for years) she did follow the rules. She did do the legal background checks, homestudy, etc. I know that I didn't personally tell anyone about my adoption until I was 100% paper ready and had a referral. Just because Madonna didn't publicize what she did in the months leading up to this process, doesnt mean that she and her husband didn't do the paperwork that was required.

I am not a real fan of Madonnas, but I am upset about her getting bashed for doing a beautiful thing and adopting a child. I hope that if the Father does take the child back that she is not so heartbroken that she doesn't consider adopting another child. I also hope that he doesn't change his mind about the adoption and just put his son back in the orphanage. His 2 brothers have already died of Malaria.

I hope whatever happens in the end, it will be what is truly best for little David.

[hpmom]

I imagine everyone who has heard of this story wishes for a happy ending..I also wish every adoption in every country were on the UP AND UP, I do not know every detail of our daughters adoption so there would be know way for me to really know everything was done clean and honest, although I loved my agency, the agency does what they are paid to do "place a child"..Now, because I have been in touch with many lawyers as a result of just getting to know the culture there is no reason in the world for me to know every judge social worker foster mother to honestly say everyone was honest thru out our process and I cannot imagine how any of us would know for a fact that our cases were all clean..Maybe I have heard to many horror stories and seen to many lies...I had not heard Madonna even had a home study jusy bits and pieces of a story..The law is the law though..If all were kosher why so much bad presss?? Other celebreties have adopted with no news or cnn involvment..Again just my opinion..

[Mariais5]

The one thing we DO know is that the country waived the MANDATORY stay of 18 months to finalize an adoption. Whether people think this is right or wrong, it is a fact that it was done. No one is disputing this on either side.

I do think it's funny that we should believe that Madonna did everything legally because Rosie O'Donnell says she did.. Rosie adopted at least some of her children in FL where it is illegal for homosexuals to adopt... So, unless she became a lesbian after adopting, she lied concerning her own adoptions...

[tybeemuffin]

Originally Posted by Mariais5

The one thing we DO know is that the country waived the MANDATORY stay of 18 months to finalize an adoption. Whether people think this is right or wrong, it is a fact that it was done. No one is disputing this on either side.

I do think it's funny that we should believe that Madonna did everything legally because Rosie O'Donnell says she did.. Rosie adopted at least some of her children in FL where it is illegal for homosexuals to adopt... So, unless she became a lesbian after adopting, she lied concerning her own adoptions...

Rosie did not adopt her children in the state of Florida. Also, the 3 oldest children were adopted before she came out. The other child is the biological child of her partner Kelly. Matter of fact she tried to adopted a foster kid of hers named Mia in Florida and the state wouldn't let her.

I guess I'm just upset that everyone assumes that Madonna didn't do things like a Home Study, background check, etc.

She did get the 18 month stay waived, but she has to be monitored for 18 months by Malawi officials before she can finalize the adoption. She is accused of fast tracking, but lets face it, she could have gotten a finalized adoption quicker going to another country (even the US), than the 18 months it will take her to finalize a Malawi adoption. Most of the Guatemalan adoptions are a lot shorter than 18 months.

I guess we'll see when the investigation pans out.

[jules17]

Madonna is supposed to be on Oprah and the Today show this week, so let the crazed media frenzy continue...just hope at the end of the day, it is the baby David that is the top priority, not the publicity.

[tybeemuffin]

Originally Posted by jules17

Madonna is supposed to be on Oprah and the Today show this week, so let the crazed media frenzy continue...just hope at the end of the day, it is the baby David that is the top priority, not the publicity.

AMEN TO THAT!

[Pipercub]

While I don't (at all!) enjoy being in a long adoption process, there is something to be said for a process that has at least some time to it. If a birth parent is relinquishing their rights, they really do need time to make the decision, live with it, and be able to change their mind before the adoption is finalized. The birth father had said in one interview that while he had put the child in the orphanage, he had hoped to remarry and go back and reclaim him. That to me didn't seem to indicate he had mentally prepared himself to fully relinquish his rights. The problem with a near-instant adoption (with regard to relinquishments) is that it is such a major, permanent, life-altering decision. In Guatemala, the birth mother will relinquish her rights four times, typically over months. And as sad as it is for an adoptive family in the instances where the birth mother changes her mind, there has to be some acceptance that she has "tried out" her decision and decided that it was not the right one. Once an adoption is finalized - that's it. Even here in the United States - there is a period of time in which a birth mother can reclaim their child. It is painful and never easy on anyone (least of all a child) if this happens, but I think it is vital for that "right" to be preserved. It didn't seem like the process that was followed in Malawi had built-in these kinds of safeguards (or if they did, they were bypassed).

So sad!

[Mariais5]

I stand corrected.. I thought Rosie adopted her children in FL since she was a Miami Beach Resident at the time..

[tybeemuffin]

Originally Posted by Pipercub

While I don't (at all!) enjoy being in a long adoption process, there is something to be said for a process that has at least some time to it. If a birth parent is relinquishing their rights, they really do need time to make the decision, live with it, and be able to change their mind before the adoption is finalized. The birth father had said in one interview that while he had put the child in the orphanage, he had hoped to remarry and go back and reclaim him. That to me didn't seem to indicate he had mentally prepared himself to fully relinquish his rights. The problem with a near-instant adoption (with regard to relinquishments) is that it is such a major, permanent, life-altering decision. In Guatemala, the birth mother will relinquish her rights four times, typically over months. And as sad as it is for an adoptive family in the instances where the birth mother changes her mind, there has to be some acceptance that she has "tried out" her decision and decided that it was not the right one. Once an adoption is finalized - that's it. Even here in the United States - there is a period of time in which a birth mother can reclaim their child. It is painful and never easy on anyone (least of all a child) if this happens, but I think it is vital for that "right" to be preserved. It didn't seem like the process that was followed in Malawi had built-in these kinds of safeguards (or if they did, they were bypassed).

So sad!

The adoption won't be finalized for at least 18 months according to Malawian law. The only thing that she bypassed, from what I understand, was not having to actually live in Malawi during those 18 months. She arranged it so that she could bring him home to England, and be evaluated there by Malawian officials during the 18 months. I would guess (although I don't know for sure) that the biological father could reclaim David at anytime during those 18 months since the adoption wouldn't be final.

[tybeemuffin]

Originally Posted by Mariais5

I stand corrected.. I thought Rosie adopted her children in FL since she was a Miami Beach Resident at the time..

Florida is one of those few states that you can have dual residency, so I guess she could legally adopt in the other state. I actually have a home in Florida and one in Georgia. I even have 2 driver's licenses, one for each state. It's kind of weird but I guess with all of the people that "winter" down there, people actually can live in both.

Plus Rosie didn't come out until after the 3 were adopted. She couldn't adopt the girl Mia that she was fostering because she would have had to been adopted in Florida, since she was in the Florida Foster Care system. Florida allows Homosexuals to Foster kids, but won't allow them to adopt the kids they are fostering.