[drjeanne]

Well glory be! We FINALLY got our I72 this afternoon! I never thought I'd be happy to have an I72 but, I was concerned that the embassy was never going to send the thing out!

Yes, it's asking for information about the birthgrandfather....color photos, adoption consent, birth certificate, cedula and affadavit of relinquishment.

Please, if your case is a minor birthmother case, talk to your agency and urge them to find out what you need...EXACTLY....at the beginning to save yourself these setbacks! I think it's ridiculous that we got this far without the grandfather getting consent when others have said their birth grandfathers had to be interviewed during family court and when DNA was taken. ASK QUESTIONS and DON'T BE AFRAID TO ASK UNTIL YOU UNDERSTAND!

Take care everyone and thanks for all your kind words and support. It's kept me sane over the last week!

Wishing everyone a successful journey!
Jeanne

[tooskis]

Hi Jeanne,

Well that's a step! At least you can see exactly what they want. I hope this issue is resolved quickly and you get your preapproval soon!

You know, this process really is like childbirth because I actually did forget our pain in getting preapproval. I previously told you we didn't have problems until we got to PGN; however, I looked back at our records and we did receive an I72 for the birth grandmother (only). This is leading me to believe that they must have indicated that the birth grandfather was deceased when they submitted us for preapproval and that's why his relinquishment wasn't raised as an issue.

Reading these posts related to minor birthmothers is a sure sign that the agencies either don't know how to handle and pre-plan for the issues or are really bad at communicating to families the potential delays! My heart goes out to all of those who have experienced delays assoicated with the minor birthmother process. We can not let what we read about other families flying through the process discourage us. We will overcome the extra hurdles. I bought my boy a shirt that says "Worth the Wait" and boy is it appropriate!

Dee
Waiting on our son Chase DOB 7-9-05

Dee

[drjeanne]

Oh Jennifer! I'm so sorry about your case! Hopefully, your news in April will be FANTASTIC and your little one will be home soon!

Take care and I'll be thinking about you!
Jeanne

[chica_latina]

bumpity bump


I'm a bit confused. We also have a birthmom "situation" for one of the babes. I asked the agency specifics of what happens and they pretty much just said "You have a good lawyer, don't worry."

Is there something I should be doing?

What is the I72?

[ddhuab]

Which is why I have been so persistently whiney about the delay in DNA authorization, as I already anticipated we would have delays in PGN..

I do agree that I think the major problems involve the sheer number of people that have to travel in to sign things, etc. Fortunately (I guess) it seems like the birthfamily is a reasonable drive from GC, so hopefully it won't be so painful. I just have to keep praying. Of course, the way things are looking, maybe the birthmother won't be minor by the time our government lets us do a DNA test!

To answer your question, I DID know (but only from reading this forum) that having a minor birthmother could cause great complications (because of grandfathers having to sign off), and that was even before the new PGN requirements that began in January. on the other hand, I have seen plenty here who have just as many complications because their child's birthmother has several other children, so I think it is 6 of one, half dozen of the other, and I could see why an agency might not feel the need to give special cautions because of a minor birthmother.

D.

[LostMangoInParis]

Well DDHUAB once again to me as a newcomer it seems like you were let down by your agency. Why did YOU have to find out about the potential problems from reading a FORUM! Didn't your agency owe you the option of telling you about potential problems when going ahead with a minor birth mother from the outset? To me is seems like agencies just want to get away with it and say that plenty of people get held up somewhere so we didn't tell you about it.

It seem sto me that the agency and especially the attorney should be well aware of what is required from the outset and not wait for the Embassy to tell them 7 weeks later. I feel for you folks I really do!

For me, I'm not buying a car from a slippery salesperson looking for a quick buck. To me the ethics go both ways. I have to prove that I am going to be a suitable parent yet the agency does nothing to show it is going to be a suitable guardian of my interests as a paying client. The process seems like dealing with a builder who promises you the job will be finished next week only next week never comes!

I know two things now - I know that a minor birth mother can cause long delays and I wouldn't use drjeanne's agency whatever it is! I want a better standard of service than that.
Kathy

[ddhuab]

While getting everyone together might cause "delays" (maybe my baby will come home at a year old instead of 3 months old)... I have seen adoptions being threatened with being disrupted because of things like not having birth certificates of the siblings in the file... now, some of these births are home births with mid-wives, and I don't know if they necessarily would have been registered, especially when the mother was parenting those children. This might be the exception to the rule, because I'm sure these are anecdotal cases, but anytime there are many children, I would think the US gov't would be even more suspicious that the child was not *truly* an adoptable "orphan" by US immigration standards.

A minor birthmother means there is definitely more involved in the "process," but, I think if the lawyer is good at evaluating the situation before taking it on, then there could be little or no complications. The lawyer used is really the issue. A "good" agency will use good attorneys, and that is the leap of faith you are taking, I guess. The only cases where I think this would REALLY complicate matters are those in which the grandparents are DIVORCED and the grandfather has to be especially located and convinced to travel to the city to sign off for things, etc.

D.

[chica_latina]

LostMangoInParis: I'm curious. Do you have an agency yet? How far along are you in the process? It just seems that you are quick to point at everybody and tell them how sucky our agencies are.

To me is seems like agencies just want to get away with it and say that plenty of people get held up somewhere so we didn't tell you about it

Although I wish I could receive more info from my agency, I am not going to think of them as unethical or compare them to a slipper car salesperson just because they do not provide information on EVERY complication that may arise.

We to understand that every case is unique and all kinds of complications may arise: papers being lost (either on Guat side or U.S. side), natural disasters (mudslides), birth family complex situations (live far away from any city or town, language barriers, death in the family), or I can end up with the crabby old guy in PGN that is anti-adoption...

You just never know..

If agencies were to fully disclose every complication that may come up, it may turn already nervous prospective parents away..

I'm not defending agencies that do not give info.. I personally know how frustrating that is.

However, I'm not going to say they are unethical, simply because the agency was not aware how to handle each and every situation that comes up.



Now, back to the topic...

Does the birth grandfather always have to sign off? I thought the birth grandmother can do it instead???

[ddhuab]

Myrna,

I was under the impression he does, unless he is dead or some authority can sign a paper that he hasn't been around in X number of years (abandonment) or something. (or maybe if there is no father -grandfather of infant -- listed on birthmother's bc, as original poster indicated was what the attorney thought was the issue in her case, you know, no father of record).

But that was just the IMPRESSION I got; I am not sure what the law actually is.

I just wanted to point out to LostMangoInParis (love that username, by the way) that while she has disclosed that she is in the early stages of learning about the process, there is VERY LITTLE that is cut and dried about the Guatemalan adoption process, so if she is looking for complete fairness and disclosure, and a feeling that no one is in this business "for money," she might want to pursue another country from which to adopt. Also, if she is from the US, I advise for her research that she read the threads about the Hague Treaty and start her process right away and choose an agency if she is sure about Guatemala.

I do have to say I was a bit offended at the implication that the birthmother issue, alone, would infer I chose an unethical agency. In fact, ethical behavior was the primary reason I chose my agency. Agencies, for the most part, get very little of the big fee package involved in Guat. adoptions (at least in my opinion). There are A LOT more ways to make a lot more money, at least in the way I see the people at my agency handling their clients and children. They travel frequently to Guat., meet all the children, and talk daily with the lawyers... they do this because they love children and love forming families. (at least, that is my impression).

D.

[LostMangoInParis]

I'm sorry if I implied anything about people's choice of agencies being unethical etc. I did not intend this as I was just commenting on agencies in general based on the complaints I constantly see.

All I've noticed whilst my research is still in progress (and part of that research has shown me one agency's director makes $200,000 plus) is that I've seen some fairly serious complaints about by some people about their "leading" agencies. I really don't mind people being in it for the money if it means their organisation is efficient. Being in it for the money does not mean it can't be ethical either

Thanks D for the comment about the Hague situation. I'm making up my mind as we speak.

You only discover the merits of your agency or whatever when things go wrong. I've seen glowing reports from people about their agency because it was a straightforward case. No minor birthmother,missing grandfather or anything untoward, great facilitator and attornies. BUT I've seen the same agency lambasted again and again by people whose cases did go wrong and the SAME agency is involved as that one loved by their clients. So something is going wrong somewhere.

When I was learning tennis I was told about forced errors and unforced errors. The problem with this case seems to be that the agency should have been aware of the grandfather when the case was sent to the embassy and been prepared to answer the questions that arose. Now getting a crabby PGN reviewer is the luck of the draw and that seems different to me than agency mistakes which appears the case here

My interest is piqued by this case even though I am not in the OP's position. I'm curious about what happens when the grandfather cannot be found but is not known to be dead. I think the OP said there was a grandfather listed on the birth mother's birth certificate....

[sara321]

Hi,

You can see that we waited almost 3 months for pre-approval. We too, had an I-72 issued because more documentation was requested on the birth grandfather.

We were told by our agency that this is something that the embassy had never requested before and they were surprised. They seemed to think it was sufficient to only have everything signed by the birth grandmother.

We used a well respected agency that everyone seems to say excellent. But I wasn't sure what to believe when they said it hadn't been requested before. So I don't know what to believe. Also when we accepted the referral we were not told that the birthmom was a minor.

-Sara

[rrrajan]

truly, i think the lawyers do the best they can, at least the majority of the time. just because we are in a hurry doesn't mean they are feeling the same pressure to get these babies home--they are doing their job, but they may also be doing it on guatemalan time.

also, i think often rules change before the attorneys are aware of them--only to find out when they go to submit documents to the embassy, PGN, etc, that someone has changed the rules. again.

gosh this process is overwhelming...sometimes i just want to pull my hair out and run down the street screaming, "somebody, do something, i just want my baby home!!"

good luck :-)

[jennifervan]

Jen,
I agree...I want to run down the street saying the same thing.
Also, I have to admit that our agency did say that it may take a little longer due to the mother of the baby being a minor. They were honest but I do not think they had any idea that PGN would require another interview starting Jan 2006. That just was not the standard procedure as of 2005.

Jennifer