[Aryanna]

I know it is frustrating to wait believe me. When we accepted our referral we hadn't even gotten U.S. clearance. We got her referral in July and clearance the end of August. So our case sat there with nothing completed during that time. When we decided to adopt we didn't think we would hit every road block there is. Now I sit and wait for the phone to ring and hope they actually say that we can still adopt our little girl.(Being investigated) I realized a while back that yes I wanted a little baby since this was our first child. Now I just want her home no matter what age. You have to do what is right for you, but just remeber she is still there. Please don't take it the wrong way. Your case might breeze through fc, pgn and cold be home in 3 mo. Take it from me, 18 weeks on pgn, you can get through it!

[kahart]

Vicki,

I"m going to join in with the choir, I think that you need to ask yourself if your really ready for this.

The DNA authorization process is taking longer for everyone right now and that's not to minimize your wait, but most everyone is waiting longer than in the past right now.

Also the prior poster was right, if you turn down this referral and then take another, you may end up in the same or worse place than you are now.

Only you can decide if your ready and if you should move forward, but from a mom who waited 14 months for what I thought would be an infant, and adopted a child from a "disprupted adoption" after she came home, I think that you really need to put some time into thinking this through.

I hope that you get a clear answer and that things work out well for you.

[Shoshana]

Dear Vicki:

First of all, I am very sorry you're having a tough time right now. I imagine that reading this thread is not going to be easy but, as you know, this is a topic near and dear to our hearts and it's a very emotional one. I hope what I say doesn't cause you more pain.

The purpose of adoption is to find the right family for a child, not to find a child for a family. The needs of the child must be paramount.

In general, I think deciding to stop an adoption that is in process is an ethical decision. No one should advocate that a family bring a child home unless that family can totally accept that child without reservation.

I think that the argument can be made that it would be problematic (yes, a euphemism) to STOP the process for child A (because it's taking too long) only to begin the process for child B. This violates the notion that adoption be about placing the needs of the child first.

It seems to me that it's very important that when one makes a commitment to adopt a child, that the commitment is made regardless of the difficulties that might be encountered, especially when those difficulties are surmountable.

I also think it sends a terrible message to the child that is already in the home. It can be tough for adoptive kids to understand how they came to be a member of their new family. What about their sister who almost was their sister, but then wasn't? I can see that this could be very difficult for a child to understand. And what about the child who is adopted later? Why her?

Please, consider finding a good therapist to help you cope with this situation. Truly, I wish you peace.

[yaddakal]

I am just 1 week into having a referral, but wanted to say how sorry I am that you are going through this. I imagine it would be best to give it a little more time. Butthe more time, the more attached you are. I hope you get some guidance from your agency.

Good luck,Kerry

[jennifervan]

I am sorry that you are sad and concerned at this time about having a young baby. When we started this process we decided to adopt from Guatemala to bring home a very young baby. We had lost our 5 day old son to anencephaly and we wanted to have an infant in our home again. We thought of China but that was "too old" for us (now looking at our situation we will hopefully be bringing a baby home before her 1st birthday but only if we are really luckly).

If you look at our timeline you will see two years worth of attempts to bring a young baby into our family. The frist referral we found out at five months old that she had severe disablities. Our family was still healing from the loss of our son and not prepared for this. But another family who was ready to adopt a special needs child adopted her right away. Legally, at five months into the process neither DNA or family court had been done.

SO even though I was sad about the loss, a part of me thought "o.k. here is another chance to get a 4 month old baby home". I kept thinking that we needed this and actually we deserved this since we had mourned both a son and our first referral. Well Gabbie, our second referral, is now 9 mo. old and stuck in a PGN investigation which could take months to years and maybe not come home.

Because of some of the issues in our case and the PGN investigation I could possibly walk away from her and get a third baby referral and try to hit the 4-6 mo mark. This has been an option for us. However, Gabbie would possibly go to an orphanage. We could not do this. In fact, we are in love with her and will wait for her. We have also visited her once. We just feel God brought her into our lives. For now, unless Gabbie's case turns into an abandonment case and/or our agency recommends otherwise and/or her mother changes her mind about the adoption, we will continue to try to bring her home. I am thinking of praying4rlittl1 in this and how hard she fought and what she has been through.

Through all of this I realized that it was not about "us" or "me" but about providing a home for her. Even if she comes to us as a toddler or child. The joke in our house has become "she is the most expensive compassion international child". This comment is made with love, saddness, and some bitter undertones. But we are literally paying for her to be well taken care of by a foster family, who she has known since she was 2 days old and may know till she is 2 years old. Anyway...I had to switch my heart in this...it is about her not me.

Blah Blah...if you can't tell I ramble and I know my situation is different but I was given the circumstances to start over with a new referral 2 weeks ago. I had to switch my thinking.

My points:
1.I am sorry about your pain I have been there and my arms still ache to hold an infant, especially my Tobie.
2.You may catch up or start with a new referral and end up with a hang up somewhere else along the way. We did not get DNA and family court with second referral till almost 6 months. HOWEVER, because of the problems with the Embassy in the Fall we caught up to alot of people who had passeded us months earlier (there was a small break of time from Nov. till Dec/Jan where the Embassy was running very smoothly and we hit that window). The people before us got caught while we were waiting for DNA/Family court....so we caught up.
3.It sounds like you have a very respectable agency and if you Lawyer/facilitator is too, than you are set.
4. I thought for sure things would go smoother legally with the second referral, starting with a clean slate, and it did not. In fact, the legal processes in this case is worse off than our first referral.
5. It, obviously, is your decision to make. If this is not something you want to pursue do not. We will be here for you. I know that pain. But for me, and I am just talking about me, at this point, this is not God's plan.

LONG WINDED AS ALWAYS AND FULL OF OPINIONS
COULD I EVER BE QUICK AND CONCISE?
Jennifer

[huganangel]

I do believe you have to do what you feel is right for you. I am sorry to hear your pain. However, as many have said, your timeline (to those of us who have been on the forum for quite a while) doesn't seem that unusual. Since this little girl is almost 3 months old, all I would recommend is that you make your decision soon. The older she gets, the tougher it will be for her to find a forever family. I'd also find out what will happen to her if you decide not to proceed. Some agencies find another family immediately to take the referral (easier done when she is very young). Other agencies take the child out of foster care (no one to pay for it) and either allow the pbmother to take custody if she can or find another institution to take her. Waiting to bring home a child can happen with any adoption. Nothing is ever guaranteed and foreign governments can do some crazy things sometimes (my daughter is a Hague Mess baby). If waiting is too much for you, I would echo what others have said and recommend that you rethink your ability to cope with any foreign adoption at this time. I know it is a heart-wrenching decision which will affect your family and the little girl. Good luck and God bless you all.

[Slatond10]

No words of comfort.. just sending you HUGS. I do not know your story. It appears you already have one adopted DD and I do not know what the other emotional losses are... It breaks my heart at the sadness in your post.

I saw your comment that your heart longs to hold your child.... so it appears that you have invested your heart in the adoption of another child.

Maybe you need to step back and take care of yourself right now before you move forward in any way. Pray about your decision... Seek God's will for your life. No matter what road blocks you encounter God can give you peace to deal with it.

Get a pedicure, massage, have lunch with a friend... take a break from the drama so you can view it from a new perspective.

[BebitosMama]

Vicki

I can hear how hard you're thinking about this, and my heart goes out to you. It's a tough decision, and it's part of a tough process.

To me, there are two issues to really think through and decide.

First, do you want to adopt a child? Because the decision to adopt a child automatically means that you are signing on for an uncertain, unpredictable, and potentially chaotic and difficult process. Even if you research carefully and choose the "agency that always brings babies home at 5 months old" or "the most ethical agency for Guatemala" or "the agency that's been in business for years and whose owner is known to be ethical and very personal", or another recommended agency, there are still a hundred things that can get mucked up.

As we are seeing now, the U.S. Government, Embassy and Homeland Security are introducing longer and longer waits into the 171-H process, pre-approval process, submitting for pink, and getting a pink appointment. What used to be days and weeks is now weeks and months.

And just a year ago this month, we had a total upheaval of the entire PGN department, they fired and hired and reorganized, and put a new guy in charge, and the whole thing was in chaos for about 2 months.

And then there are holiday periods weeks when things don't happen. Easter and Christmas periods often involve weeks of reduced workload capabilities with the Guatemalan authorities, as staff take holiday and vacation time.

And weather emergencies -- hurricane Stan last year -- bad periods of rains that prevent people from traveling in and out of Guatemala City or wash out roads to rural areas -- that can slow down or stop progress in Guatemala.

And strikes, or demonstrations, that shut down the city, or slow down progress in Guatemala.

And not to mention birth mothers in hard-to-reach remote rural areas, investigations by PGN, lawyers who get overworked or disorganized, the mysterious facilitators behind the scenes who sometimes muck things up, papers that get lost, FedExes that never arrive, etc., and so on...

Those who bring home that 5 month old baby are extraordinarily lucky.

Most of us do not fall into that category. Most of us deal with some variation at some point along the way of the "typical" Guatemalan adoption.

In my own case, I accepted referral on a baby who was a few months old, had a supposedly "fantastic" and fast lawyer, and it all imploded -- our process (which was not during the Hague delays) took 10 months...he was almost 14 months old when we brought him home. I never planned on bringing home a walking, talking toddler.

So I guess what I'm saying is, if you want to adopt from Guatemala, no matter what agency or lawyer you are using, you are signing on for an erratic and unpredictable, and possibly long, process.

Second, can you, personally, handle the stress, uncertainty, and emotional upheaval of the adoption process.

But since that is the "ideal" that rarely happens -- I consider a "perfect adoption" sort of the "perfect storm of Guatemalan adoption" -- the reality is probably going to be rockier and slower, and less predictable. Is that something that you can and want to handle?

It's not a failing for someone to admit that this is not something they are equipped to deal with. Because it's a very difficult, very emotional, and very stressful process. Just like some of us would readily admit that we're not equipped to adopt a special needs child, or we're not able to handle home hospice for a dying loved one, or we're not able to work as a nurse in the cancer ward, or as a lawyer in the family courts handling cases of abused children. We're all not meant to take on the same types of life experiences, or stressful undertakings.

Before you make such a decision though, I'd suggest several long talks, not just with the agency and social worker, but perhaps with a therapist who specializes in working with adoptive families. Because they can give you some ideas on things that parents have done to constructively cope with the stress and uncertainty. And if you're religious or spiritual, a talk with your minister/rabbi/pastor/spiritual advisor might also be in order, because he or she could also help you think about what you could or couldn't do to cope emotionally and in your heart. And all of this could help you decide if there are enough "tools in your toolbox -- emotionally, spiritually, energetically, etc." that would allow you to constructively deal with the stress of moving forward with the adoption. And they can also talk with you about the emotional impact and stress involved with making the decision to stop as well.

I can tell you that I talked with an adoption therapist, and she was WONDERFUL -- empowering, comforting, and gave me a boatload of constructive ideas to call on. Because partway through my messy process, I was stressed out in the extreme -- I was in such pain. But I slowly got the skills I needed to make it through, got over the hurdles, and eventually, brought home our boy. (Now, I would never change a minute of it if it meant not bringing home THIS little boy to be part of our lives.)

Vicki -- don't make a quick decision. I'd talk to some professionals, and mull it over, before making a final decision one way or the other.

And either way, we're here to support you.

Mary

[curt'sgirl]

Hi Vicki,
If you read the boards, you'll see you're in very good company with longer timelines. There's lots of support here.
Like many, my child's adoption was not a smooth one. It took five months for DNA and I then was submitted three times back into FC #3 until my lawyer was comfortable with finding a pro-adoption SW (after six months). I felt life was just plain unfair. Now I look at this Godsend in front of me and am blessed with a child who was meant to be in my life.
Take a deep breath - spend a few days away from anything adoption-related - and take a long walk alone. Yes, babies are cute and cuddly but what a blessing to watch a child grow and learn, knowing you're making all the difference as a parent. Best wishes. Nancy

[diver345]

I'm sorry to hear of your difficulties with your case. This is not an easy process and not for the "faint of heart". To say anyone needs patience for this process is an understatement.

We encountered every difficulty imaginable during our process and some days I thought a black cloud had settled over my house! (It took us 16 long months) My son came home at 9 mos. and has adjusted wonderfully. He's 11 mos. now and today he raised his arms up and said Mama directly to me for the first time. Would I have liked an easier process? You bet (and I would have a lot less gray hair) but would I change a thing? Never.

Here are a few suggestions to consider before you make a decision. If you are in family court #2 (I thought #2 is the unfriendly one) then you can request that your lawyer pull your file and try for another FC. If you are having problems getting auth. for DNA, possibly contact your congressmen to intervene. Not sure if that's possible though but others might know more about that.

Just keep in mind that if you drop this referral and get another one, there is no guarantee that the next referral won't hit bumps in the road. That is part of this process and you really can't escape from it. However, if adoption is general is not for you and you plan to drop this referral and adoption altogether, then that is a decision you will need to consider. As someone else said you really have to follow your heart and there is no right or wrong decision, and no one can make it for you. But give it some consideration first.
I hope I helped in some way and wish you well in your journey.
Vicki

[beachdreams]

Vicki -

I feel your pain. I think everyone gave you some great food for thought. I also think Bebitosmama spelled it out as thorough as possible.

If you will look, my DNA test did not take place until 3 months after receiving Bailey's referral. Of note, my DNA test and social worker interview were amazingly done the day after receiving the approval to have it done. Small miracle no doubt. More of a miracle because I was in the court you are in FC#3. The infamous #3. It did take the report a while to be written up but I had to wait for Preapproval so I obviously was not rushed.

If you look at my timeline you will see I was obviously very frustrated throughout the ordeal. I think the wrong assumption is made judging from some of my PM's. It was not the length of my adoption that sent me over the edge; she was home at 8 months of age so not too shabby as far as I am concerned. What was my issue was my agency.

To be honest, I fully well expected delay after delay. I am just one of those people who rarely has a smooth process about things like this (other things in my life make up for my Murphy's Law state of being so its all good). What I did not expect was to be lied to repeatedly, to be treated like dirt, sent nasty and abusive emails etc. It made me an emotional wreck.

Through it all, I never once wanted to walk away from Bailey. It simply was not going to happen. I remember the day vividly that I was given her referral. Do you know I had accepted her referral before I read her medicals or saw her picture. I had to be reminded that I had to do that before I submitted the YES. I have always known that God would bring my daughter to me. There was no way that I would ever back away from her referral just because of a few set backs or because I so desperately wanted nothing else in this world to do with my agency. I had such strong feelings of dislike for them that I would actually get an knot in my stomach when I saw that I had an email from them that is how bad it was. I equate it to being in an emotionally abusive marriage of sorts. I told them that they could continue to harrass me but I was not giving her up. I would see this through until they pride my cold dead fingers off her referral.

She might have been in another country but she was mine and the day I accepted her referral, I was ultimately saying that I would do anything for her and to protect her and there just would never be enough bumps in the road to stop that.

You really need to decide before going forward if a) adoption is right for you and b) if a Guatemalan adoption is right for you. Maybe China would have been a better fit where the process is more streamlined. Of course there are never any guarantees in life.

Good luck with your decision.

[jlinberger]

My comments come from a woman (me) who also had a very long, horrendous process with our first son. To start, we were initially dealing with infertility. From start to finish, I did not have a child home and into my life for 8 long years. So after 7 years of "trying" we decided that we wanted to adopt. BEST decision ever, as a side note. Anyway, we received our referral at 3 weeks, brought him home at 10 months. In the midst of all of that wait- he received some sort of "head trauma" that resulted in brain surgery to remove a blood clot from his brain. He now has a scar from ear to ear. Pure agony for us, I can assure you (and for him, too). And this surgery was at the begining of the 147 day PGN wait. Did I believe I would never, ever bring him home? You bet. Was I shocked when I finally got "out"? You bet. But did it happen? Yes. And he has now been home a full year? He was my first child- and I didn't even miss not having the "newborn" phase. He came home right at the "fun time" of development. I never thought it would take this long, but it did and we survived, by God's grace. And now I am in my second adoption, kind of quaking, knowing the potential for hardship. All this to say that I am a woman of experience, too.

Here is my opinion, since you asked. But please realize that none of us know you and it might be best to also ask those that love you and are close to you, knowing you personally. My opinion is to either stick with this referral, or not do Guatemala adoption at all. You have absolutely NO NO NO guarantee that things would go smoother. And in fact, getting another referral would set you back because you have to wait for the referral, do the acceptance docs, authentication, legalization, translation, etc. etc. All of this taking another month or two anyway. And then...who knows. So, hang in there! Seek support and love! Or look into other options to expand your family.

But please find encouragement from all of us who made it to the other side. Blessings.

[luv2teach2]

I agree with the those that have posted. I think it is a decision you have to make on your own, but if you are already questioning things I do believe that that is a sign of a red flag. You need to follow your gut and your heart.....

[TerriBB]

Vicki
Thanks for allowing us to read your post. We're in the same boat - with the exception of being told that our DNA was taken on March 1st & we were out of Family Court. Neither was true I did not fall asleep until 4a and was up at 530a. This is very painful, but when I see pictures of our little sweetie - I know it will be worth every moment of pain. I like to think of this process of being involved in a high risk pregnancy!

I have a friend who survived the Hague and she keeps my head straight, plus she often offers wine!

My heart aches for you, but thanks for sharing your thoughts before jumping ship - you're on the ship with a lot of caring people.

Please take care of yourself and allowing us to see the conflict that you are experiencing!

Terri
Waiting for Flora
B.Day 11.3
POA 11.16
171H 12.8
DNA???
FC????

[melgrant]

Just wanted to say good luck to you..... I know a lot of people have shared their stories of how, and why, they hung in with long and/or difficult adoptions, and I admire them all for their strength.

But remember that no one should ever feel they "have" to adopt a particular child, or that they are weak or bad or wrong for deciding that they've had as much emotional turmoil as they can take. It's possible that the delays you are suffering will end soon, but the truth is we all know that they could also be a sign of something much more seriously wrong in your case, and that nothing in a Guatemalan adoption is guaranteed. You are wise to be thinking of this now....it is sooooo much worse to read stories of families who realize only AFTER the adoption is complete that it is not right for them.

You have another child to consider and if this is taking too much of a toll on you, then hats off to you for reserving your strength for the people in your life who need you (and for yourself, of course!) I think we all hope that if you cannot adopt your current referral, you will find the peace and strength to make that decision very soon so that the little one has ample time to find another family before she grows "too old" (heartbreaking to consider, but very real)