[guatmom4113]

We are in the process of adopting an eight year old. I am a high school teacher and work a lot of ours during the school year 50-60 hours wk. I am strongly considering taking a less demanding position once our daughter gets home. Maria has never been to school and she cannot speak English. She cannot read our write. She cannot recognize numbers. I think she is going to need my help. Here is my question: Has anyone else adopted an oder child (around 8) and what was your experience?? How long did it take your child to become fluent in English??? Has your child been able to catch up academically, and if so, how long did it take? What about adjusting to American life??

[Aleea]

bumping this up

[Devora]

If Brink doesn't see this thread and chime in, I would suggest sending her a PM. Her family has adopted older children and she has a lot of good insights.

Having worked in a high school, I agree that a less demanding job or going to part-time (at least for the first year your daughter is home) might be a good idea. I know how demanding that work is -- it's not the cushy situation that outsiders think!

Best wishes,
Devora

[my3guats]

Our son wasn't as old as your daughter but was 4 1/2 when he came home. He had not had any of the typical preschool experiences. He had no knowledge of colors, numbers, shapes, etc...even in Spanish. He will be home 2 years in April and is kindergarten right now. Still at the beginning of this school year letters did not make any sense at all. Right now he knows all of his letters and is starting to read a few sight words. So in the past 2 - 3 months has really caught up.

I have done quite a bit of research and reading on this and it seems that most experts say expect 3 - 5 years to be academically fluent which is a lot different than conversationally fluent. Basically within about 4 or 5 months he was speaking a lot of English. He started preschool 5 afternoons a week in Sept after he came home in April and everyone could understand him.

With your daughter being a little older and no prior education it will probably be a little more difficult since her same aged peers won't be learning letters, numbers, etc where as Isaac, even though somewhat behind the other kids, still was able to learn these with his peers.

Yes I think you will probably need to be able to spend more time with her and I would also start right researching schools, educators, etc. in your area and coming up with a plan as to what her education is going to look like. I am also an educator(have taught kindergarten - 2nd grade) and know that not all schools, teachers, etc. have programs that will work for your daughter.

[moelladeville]

I'm adopting a seven-year old girl, but she's not home yet, so I have some of the same questions as you! Good luck,
Marjorie

[kacmom1]

I would absolutely recommend cutting back your hours to spend time with your daughter. I am a stay at home mom (I used to be a teacher until I got pregnant with my first child) and we just adopted a 3 year old little boy. I feel very strongly that because I spend a lot of time with him, he has blossomed and has very quickly learned the English language. He bonded to me immediately and he is very eager to learn new things. I am able to take him with me everywhere I go to experience and be exposed to many new things.

If you can make it work, I think it will be so worth it and you will be so happy with your decision! You'll never regret it!

[captainzip90]

We adopted siblings that were 6 and 7 1/2 when they came home. I spent the first three months homeschooling them. The biggest issue was they weren't use to sitting for any length of time at the table working. Even if the work wasn't hard for them they thought is was sooo long to sit and work. I would even have them color and do stickers just to get use to working for a length of time. After three months the 6 year old went into kindergarten three days a week and I continued to homeschool the 7 1/2 year old who now was 8. She would go to school, a small private school, in the afternoon. I would say for the next 6 months they were basically getting English and social skills and not absorbing much of the learning. This year they are both enrolled in school full time, grades 3rd and 1st and are doing really well. They are both fairly bright kids so learning is relatively easy for them. We are adopting their 12 year old sister and I am planning on homeschooling her for quite a while as it will take longer for her to catch up. They will pick up stuff so fast but there is so much they don't know, time, days of the week, George Washinton etc. I figure by the time they graduate from high school they will know most of it.

If you have any additional questions just ask. It is a wonderful experience to adopt older children!!

Michele.

[brink]

Had to chuckle Devora...here I am! Thanks for the confidence. Hope I can help. Hope this doesn't get too long. My posts usually do.

Our boys were both 4yrs old when they came home from Guat, two yrs apart. Since I homeschooled K with our four older kids, I did the same for them and got to have them home three more yrs and then send them to 1st grade. They learned English quickly, and by the time they started school, they did fine. Typical boys, they've had to learn to take school seriously, but are doing well...not excellent, but well and improving.

We brought our 10yr old daughter home from Guat in Feb 2005. All three of our kids lived in the same small, private orphanage and had excellent care and bonded with caregivers and friends. I agree it would be great to cut down hrs and be with your daughter as much as possible. That being said, we decided to put our daughter in school after only a few wks home. She had been to private schools since a preschooler, was used to being around lots of kids, and was already grieving the loss of friends. To keep her at home with just me and DH around during the day (we farm) seemed to only make her more sad. We had her tested by a bilingual friend and area aducation specialist and recommended third grade placement. We did make the point of spending time alone with her as much as possible, our older kids home with our younger ones. She had some early "issues", mainly goofiness and trying to get and being given too much attention at school, much selfishness and less maturity than you'd expect to see from a third grader. But there were reasons for some of this behavior. We just tried to give her the attention she needed at home and discuss these things with her. She had a few grieving times, but was able to communicate with us about them. She still seems to get sad when I cut her hair or dry it. There may be other triggers along the way. (She may just be sad her mother doesn't do braids as they did for her in Guatemala.!)

She learned English quickly, but as has been suggested, they learn "social" language rather quickly. We've been told it takes 5-7yrs to really grasp a language, to understand humor, etc. Not sure how true this holds, but I'm sure it depends. Doing academics in a foreign language is another story. She's blessed to be bright and bold and enthusiastic, so that's helped her catch on quickly. Our school was at a loss as to how to approach teaching her, but this year she has an aid, goes to Title 1 math and spends time with the reading teacher. Last year I really wondered what she was gaining, doing all her work in English...basically just copying everything. But somehow, she is catching on. It's amazing. I expect her to be behind for at least a few more years, but am praying she can get caught up at least by high school. She does lower level spelling than the class, which is totally undestandable. She has had to adjust also to the idea that she can't do everything her classmates do. She HATES to be different, which is sometimes to her advantage for the challenges she is willing to face.

Since you're a teacher, you would know much that would be helpful to teach your daughter at home or to at least supplement her learning. Since she hasn't been to school, it would seem a good idea to at least give her time to adjust a bit at home before thrusting her into that environment. I've had to ajust my thinking about goals for our daughter, learning to accept that this is going to take awhile, even as smart as she is. It's important to let her just play and have fun and learn other things besides school work. I struggle with how much to work on things at home, after she's been in school all day. We try to read to her, her to us...and the ever present flash cards our boys need help with, too. Sometimes I wonder if they are all a bit slower with math because they didn't have access to as many manipulatives during early childhood, but who knows. They might just be like their mom. We're all more on the creative side and less analytical. One thing I struggle with is knowing how to correct her accent. It's neat, it's hers, but she also needs to be understood. She is willing and correctable, so I remind her of pronunciations from time to time. We've tried to encourage her to keep her Spanish, but not until very recently, nearly a yr later, has she shown an interest. She is listening to Spanish children's CD and more willing to "translate" for us. We are NOT bilingual.

News from Guatemala is our file was just given to the lawyer for the 8yr old girl we met on our trip for our daughter last year. Here we go again! We haven't the heart to tell the school until it's closer to happening. They've scrambled to figure out how to help our daughter, and I hate to break the news to the same teachers they might have to do this again! They all show great concern in helping our daughter learn as quickly and as much as she can during her tenure in their rooms. Our daughter is the first non English speaking student in our small community.

[soon2bemom]

Just to let you know I am in the same boat you and moelladeville are in. We are adopting an 8 year old girl who has never been to school. I am cutting back my work hours by about 30% in anticipation that I need to spend more time at home.

I still havent made any final decisions re homeschooling versus parochial school versus public school.

There are real pros and cons...
on the one hand I think she may learn english fastest with kids her age, on the other I worry it is a lot of pressure to be thrown into school in a new country...when you are so far behind

[walnutmeg]

Wow, first of all I just want to say this thread has been so great to read. When we first adopted in '94 we didn't have this group to relate to and felt so alone!

We are currently adopting an 8 yr. old who has now turned 9. I am really praying to get her home before the end of the school year so I can get her "immersed" in learning English. Her hogar has an English tutor for her right now but when we visited in Nov. she really didn't know much at all.

I spoke with the principal at the kid's school. They have an ESL (English Second Language) program where she could go to a self contained classroom of ESL students. But, those students speak predominently Hmong so I don't really feel that would be the best place for her either.

I changed jobs this fall in anticipation of this adoption( I also used to be a teacher) My job is still within the school district but 60%(3 days a week) Technology Director. I love the job, but getting used to less money is still taking some getting used to. My DH travels alot for work so I needed more time at home to help manage the family! Anyways, I'm planning to take family leave when we bring Kaya home and go to school with her the first few weeks to help her get acclimated. (I speak a little Spanish) There is also a traveling ESL teacher that will be able to work with her 1 or 2 times a week. I also asked the school if some advanced high school Spanish students could come over and tutor her during this period and they thought this was a great idea, the students will be able to get credit for this as an independent study.

Finally I went out and bought Hooked on Phonics yesterday so I can work with her at home learning to read. My son adopted from Guat at 3 is in 3rd grade and has dyslexia so hopefully it will help him as well.

I hope this helps...It sure helped me to talk it through!

(We are getting new pictures this week...we should start a pic parade of our older kids!)

Lisa

[brink]

I agree with you, soon2be. You really need to wait and decide what is best for your child when they come home, depending on their background, their personality, bonding, etc. I was pretty sure we would keep our daughter home for at least a month, maybe thru the end of the school year (Feb-May), and was open to homeschooling her this first year, if it seemed best. We've had "issues" we wouldn't have had if she wasn't in public school, for sure. But we're all happy with our decision to send her to school. You will know what your child needs most, as you get to know them when they come home.

On another subject of love and bonding. I don't know if this will make sense to those adopting or having brought home an infant or younger child. I started loving our daughter in 2000, when DH gave me permission to ask the agency about her after meeting her on our son's pickup trip. Started paperwork in early 2002. Long story short...when she came home in Feb 2005 and began some of her quirky, 10yr old behaviors (typical preadolescent behaviors, understandable under the circumstance of leaving her entire world behind, but still annoying), some days I just had to remind myself I did indeed love her. My head knew I was committed to this child for our lifetimes, but as with any of my kids, the feelings wasn't always there. That's true of my life with DH, too! But it was very scary to not always have loving feelings for her, since we didn't have "history" to cling to. At those times, I could remind myself of my committment to be her mom forever. Hope that encourages anyone adopting older children. It feels "weird" some days, not normal. Adopting 4yr old boys didn't feel like this. For them, it was just getting used to boys, after 4girls. Allowing myself that it sometimes felt scary, helped me get thru the times I sometimes wondered what we'd gotten ourselves into. Don't get me wrong...she is such a blessing! But some of the blessing has come in the form of needing to work harder to get to where we are today. We're still learning about each others' reactions, frustrations, needs. Some of the very things that frustrate me...her boldness, willingness to jump right into the "fray" by arguing with her brothers (she and our first son from Guat are now "twins" and our other son 2yrs younger), "me first" attitude, etc...all these things will help her succeed in school and life, as she learns to temper them and to be more generous and giving and "other centered". They're also things which have helped her jump right into our family and her life in America, dealing early with her grief and moving forward in her life. We're all blessed that our three had wonderful love and care at the same small, private orphanage in Guatemala City. Even if they'd come with more difficult issues, every child deserves a family. Some of the people I admire most are those willing to take on more difficult issues and special needs. Although I've read that our daughter is really considered "special needs" because of her age and issues of abandonment in her life, she's been given great blessings in her early life and her God-given personality to be able to deal with these things. Though we try not to excuse her behaviors, it helps to remind ourselves of all she has had to adjust in her journey into our family.

This is an amazing adventure! Thanks to all of YOU who are committed to bringing an older child into your lives. They will bless you, they will frustrate you, they will make you so proud by their efforts to become such an important part of your families! God bless you...as I know He will.

[brink]

Sorry...more thoughts from me.

Just read Lisa's post. I think you're doing some great things to prepare for your daughter's arrival. This was a new adventure for our school district. They have embraced our daughter and worked to assess her needs and meet them as best they can. Things could be better, but in our small, midwestern town, we're thankful for the school's efforts and support. We did need to keep very close contact with her teachers and sometimes push a little harder and let our voice be heard, but they have worked hard at learning how to serve an English Language Learner. If I can mention an online program, they discovered Renassiance Learning's English in a Flash program, which worked early on for her. She did know how to read English when she came, but her understanding wasn't there. They didn't know how to grade her this first yr's first quarter. We were very disappointed they gave her letter grades...D's and F's in some subjects. Fortunately, she didn't really understand. That was one of their mistakes. This quarter her teachers wrote narratives about her progress, which is much more helpful for all of us to see her progress and to discuss with her what she needs to work harder on. Not sure HOW they will comply with "No Child Left Behind" and the standards and testing, etc. That's their problem, not ours.

Our district doesn't have an ESL teacher, but it's great your daughter will have that advantage. There was already a high school Spanish student doing a independent study in our daughter's classroom when she arrived, so that helped her...although our daughter is very independent and wanted to "ignore" her Spanish from day one. Though we tried to encourage her to keep it, she would tell us she didn't remember Spanish. She is just now starting to embrace it again, and we are so glad for that. A friend had told me that our daughter would need to "lose" her Spanish in order to concentrate on learning English. I don't know if "lose" is as accurate as "ignore". She does remember it still after one year of trying to deny it for nearly one year. We're thankful she still has it...especially when we bring home our next (and last???) child from the same orphanage. If I keep my eyes closed when we visit the orphanage at pickup, we might hold to that decision!

It must be really difficult for these kids to come and experience all these changes. I am amazed at and so thankful for our daughter's courage and resiliency! Your children will also make you so proud! May they come home as soon as is possible.

[walnutmeg]

brink,

Thanks for the tip on the English program! I'm on my way to their website now!

[soon2bemom]

It would be great to update each other on how our kids are doing once they get home....what should we call our thread?....that way we could recognize one another...

[fleul]

Sorry to jump in so late here, but I don't get on the forum much anymore!

Anyway, we brought home our 6 1/2 yr old at the end of July 2005. She had never been to school before, only spoke Spanish and we only speak English. When we went to meet her for the first time last March, I bought a bunch of nursery rhyme cd's, abc's and numbers, and silly songs. Also took a portable cd player and left all that with her. She listened to those constantly for those 4 months while waiting for us. It must have sunk in, because when she came home, she was singing the alphabet. Then, school was starting in our district and I only had her home 3 weeks and 3 days. I didn't know what to do, so I decided to send her. I hated sending her I wanted to be selfish and still spend more time with her, but I think it helped her so much just immersing her in English. Within 2 months she was speaking English and does not like speaking Spanish. She is enrolled in ESL classes and goes 1 hour a week. Also, when we picked her up, her foster mom had taught her about 6 words in English. A lot of people recommended music to me to help her learn and it seems like it really helped!

Good luck!!! It might take some time, but it will all work out!

Linda