[DesertMom]

I thought people might find this interesting. She talks about a lot of the controversy surrounding Guatemalan adoptions and why some Guatemalans are opposed to it. I'm planning on going to her lecture next week and will let you know what she says.

http://www.tucsonweekly.com/gbase/Cu...?oid=oid:75554

[kauai2k]

I have bookmarked this and will read for sure. Looking forward to hearing what your reflections are on this.

diane

[Maggie Beth]

If I can get a babysitter, I might drive down from Phoenix to hear this... sounds very interesting!

[Devora]

I'm interested to hear your reactions to the talk. I do find her comments about the connection to the civil wars very interesting and enlightening. However, I'm a bit concerned about the misinformation about only the US doing intercountry adoptions from Guatemala -- as we know here on the forum, we have members from the UK, Ireland, and Switzerland (and maybe other countries that I haven't noticed) adopting from Guatemala. So obviously other countries are working with Guatemala, too.

Devora

[Anne22]

Very interesting. Thanks for posting it!

[DesertMom]

Alex if you come down, let me know.

I just reread the article and I realized that we know her. (Jeez, I have such Teflon brain these days.) She had fellowship at the same center as my husband a few years ago. In fact I believe they co-authored a paper together. I'll have to ask him when he gets home. I'll be able to get more scoop from her after the lecture probably. I'm also curious as to why she mentions kidnapping as if it's still going on since DNA is being done to rule that out. Since the interview is so short, I'm wondering if that got edited out. She's done a lot of interesting research.

[Maggie Beth]

[quote=DesertMom]Alex if you come down, let me know.
QUOTE]

I will. I'm going to talk to my mom tomorrow & see if she will come over and watch my kids. My husband has a grad seminar at ASU that night (his last of the semester), otherwise I'd rope him into coming.

I did my undergrad at UA and took a number of classes in that dept, so I am also quite interested. I will PM you if it looks like I can come...

[wvamom]

Desertmom,

Thanks for posting this. I hope you put in a good word for Guatemalan adoption--I think we need it.

Also, I wonder, has she been to Guatemala? Spoken with birth mothers, or even with other Guatemalans? And, I would be interested in knowing what her sources (documents or other) are. She has a lot of sweeping statements, but the lawyer in me would like to see how they are backed up.

Good luck and best wishes on her show.
Carolyn

[oldbear]

Take a third world country, money grabbing facilitators (come on $15k - $20K in a place where people exist on a couple of dollars a day!), governments that don't or won't regulate, relatively wealthy foreigners unable or unwilling to adopt in their own country but able to pay and you have a recipe for abuse. Not just in Guatemala but anywhere....

[jal_morris]

Wow - if any of you get to hear her speak, I sure hope you will be able to question her about the source of her information, because many things she stated I don't believe are accurate. For instance, as Devora noted, the US is simply NOT the only country adopting from Guatemala. And DNA testing has all but eliminated baby stealing. And the organ harvesting? Has there really ever been ANY valid evidence to back up that claim? The concept of US privilege makes sense to me, but I would LOVE to hear more about her sources for the statement that many children disappeared by the army during the civil war ended up adopted by US families. It may well be true, but its a pretty devastating claim. I think we all know the system isn't perfect(!), but she makes some strong allegations that I'd like to see some support for...

[Maggie Beth]

DesertMom --

I just sent you a PM.

[oldbear]

Actually as far as I know DNA testing has not eliminated the abuse - helped but not eliminated. I've read stories of women being coerced into giving up their children. Hearsay of course...

Anyway how do we know that women aren't willingly giving birth for money? One heck of a lot of money going to Guate and who's to say that women aren't being paid to have children for adoption just to keep up the flow?

[wvamom]

I agree that there is a lot of money going to Guatemala; however, my understanding is that very little money goes to birth mothers. So it's certainly not very profitable for the birth mothers to have babies in hopes of getting money.

Second, Guatemala has such a high birth rate anyway, that the competition would be overwhelming, if a woman wanted to have babies just for the money. In addition, although this is just anecdotal, in my experience most of the birth mothers do not place baby after baby for adoption--they simply have hardships making them unable to care for a particular child. And for those having boys, they would be taking an even greater risk that they could not find a placement for their child, since agencies have to turn away referrals for boys, while there is a waiting list for girls.

As for being pressured to give up their children, while it is certainly possible that this happens, it seems to me far more likely that the circumstances of poverty and lack of spousal or family financial or emotional support contribute far more pressure, than an attorney or facilitator.

I would say that these are valid questions to investigate in a particular circumstance--I certainly asked similar questions of my agency before I entered the process. Had I believed that our son's birth mother was coerced into relinquishing him, I would not have proceeded with the adoption.

Carolyn

[oldbear]

Well no-one is going to admit that money goes to birth mothers or the true amount at least.

If I was in Guate and an attorney I'd be looking for women that I could pay to have children if I didn't have a ready supply already. Maybe you wouldn't need to pay but there's always scope for abuse

[DesertMom]

My concern has never really been that my son's birthmother would have been coerced into placing him. I'm interested to hear more about how that might occur. My concern has always been about whether women who change their mind about placement are empowered enough to do it. Som people on the Big List have alleged that some women are told that if they change their minds that they will be responsible for reimbursing the attorney for the fostering fees which almost none of these women could afford. My understanding is that this is illegal, but it's something they are told or implied in some cases.

I would never work with an agency that told me birthmothers never change their minds. That would raise a red flag for me.